Wanting to "keep up" with everyone else...

Wow! This is a tough one! I dont think I have any answers but I know where your coming from. I sort of have a similiar problem. I have a third grade student who is not very happy to see me arrive at his class. (I am the sped teacher) He gave us such a hard time last year (not as hard as you describe) that we decided it was not worth pulling him out of class. He did meet with the principal to discuss his behavior and has complied within the classroom. (mild attitude in school, his mom gets the brunt of it at home) He gets a separate spelling list (The aide gives him the test) and along with the aide I go into the class for certain subjects. His behavior is more quiet anger/defiance and just a social awareness that he doesn’t want to be associated with the “dumb kids” (told his mom that).

What happened last year? Was your student on a plan did she get pulled out?
Is there a guidance counselor who could talk to her about leaving the room? and maybe go a step further doing a class lesson on diversity?
I am not thrilled with our decision I almost feel that we gave in to him but he is working in the class and accepting (with visible signs of unhappiness)different work.
It depends on whether or not she is going to benefit outside of the class. If she is going to tantrum and obsess over missing stuff in class its not going to be productive time spent for anyone. Not to mention the scene that this must cause in front of the class.
I am thinking (this is only my opinion) that either The Team give her the ultimatum that this is unacceptable behavior (tantruming) and that she will not be able to remain with the class if it continues..(in school suspension???)and part of her day is to go with the sped teacher - no discussion. or a deal is made that she stay in the class but she accept different work /homework possible small group work with a special ed person in the back of the room, tests taken outside the room.
I admire her persistance and drive to do it all and maybe you should let her do all the homework. Making sure she knows that she can stop at a specific point but if she wants to continue thats up to her.. It most likely will wear her down or make her stronger.. Offer some of the work as “Challenge” work so the pressure is not there but you aren’t taking away the opportunity to try it.
I wish I had more to offer. The funny thing is we are meeting with the parent of my student tomorrow to discuss his hostility toward the in-class support. I wish you luck. Cynthia

Where are the parents in this? This case need someone to put their foot gently down and this feels like a parent’s job to me. “Heidi, Daddy and I appreciate how much you want to do but you’re not getting enough sleep. Your wonderful teacher wants you to do fewer problems and so do we - until you catch up on your sleep. This isn’t something Dad and I are going to discuss - it’s a decision we’ve made to keep you healthy. We don’t want to make you feel like you’re not a good student but no one should be up as late as you are.”

Case closed. This isn’t a place where you can put your foot down without them having done it first. Call them up and suggest that they do so and that you’ll back them up at school. Tell them you see she’s tired.

Not giving up is one thing. Knowing when we need a break is another.

I have a son with dyslexia, capd and writing issues and he is very much aware that he is has issues that the other kids don’t have and he really doesn’t like when a teacher comes in to pull him out, he feels like he is being singled out and is embarrassed in front of his friends. This is a tough one because these kids know they need the help but the last thing they want is that attention to be called to themselves. At least for my son that is the case.

I have a son in middle school. He does not need the pull-outs, is has had to make some course changes. He does not always select what I think is best for his academic learning, but for his comfort level socially he has chosen to do what he does, and I let him do it. He also insists on doing the art projects (fine motor delays) that never turn out well, bcs he wants to be like everybody else. A couple of times he came home heart broken bcs the project did not measure up, and I was left to pick up the pcs.. He rarely let me help him with these projects. He has learned to compensate, he challenges himself, and sometimes teachers expect less of him than they should, and sometimes they expect too much. I have come to realize that teachers with parents can only guide, but some children know what they want and just go with it. My son is one of those, he is shy, but he knows what he wants and is not going to listen when it comes to certain issues (even when it is the more difficult road).

As you say, your son is in Middle School. The original poster was inquiring about a much younger child who was sleep depriving herself to do work that was not required.

Middle school and elementary school are two very different ages. Sleep deprivation and projects poorly done are also two different matters entirely.

Your son is an adolescent whereas the child in question is just that - a child and a tired one at that. With a middle schooler and certainly an upper schooler, parents and teachers can only be guides but with a young child it’s entirely different. Young children can still be directed to doing what’s best.

I celebrate that you and your son have arrived at a comfortable understanding of each other and hope the young child in question also arrives at a more comfortable spot in her relationship to school and school work.

You could make it clear that not all students are doing the
same work and that’s okay. Not all students read the same books,
nor do all do the same homework. This student should not be given the homework that is too demanding. Limit the amount of time that the student should spend on homework. The student shouldn’t have a choice. Maybe you could consider “extra credit” work to give the student a chance to go above and beyond.

I am going to answer around some of the paragraphs. It makes the answer sort of long but I think the comments will make more sense:)
>
Recently, she has begun to refuse to leave the
> classroom, insisting she wants to do “what everyone else is
> doing.” I’ve pointed out that other students get “pulled
> out,” but she still refuses, to the point of throwing
> tantrums. (Developmentally, she seems younger than third
> grade.)

Tantrums should be an instant”out of the room with no further questions” activity for her- that should never get her what she wants. Period. I would sit down with Mom and Dad and your administrator and work out a plan to manage this one.

Since it seems as if you have identified some of the triggers however, I guess I might try to work with your Resource teacher to think creatively about how services are delivered to your class. Does this child meet in small groups? Could those groups meet in the class? Could the person providing her service give the homework? Could you teach her group and the resource person meet with your group for a while?

Furthermore, she insists she do the same homework
> other students do, and doesn’t want me to cut the amount. I
> have conferenced frequently with her parents about this, and
> she throws tantrums at home if they won’t let her finish her
> homework. She will sit for two or three hours in the evening,
> just trying to keep up. My heart goes out to her, and I feel
> awful about this. It’s not like I have a homogeneous group of
> students—several of them get pulled out on a regular basis,
> and being a multi-age group they are all good at different
> things. I’ve tried pointing out to her and to the class the
> things she does well. They are very good at supporting each
> other, but I just don’t know how to deal with this situation.

Does your entire class get the same assignments in all areas? That could make it difficult, but if she meets in groups and the person teaching the group gave them their HW than you might work your way around this one.

> I can tell she is tired—she says she’s not, but she seems to
> be getting more weary every day. She won’t give up, and
> that’s not an attitude I want to squelch. At the same time, I
> don’t want her to burn out in third grade. Any ideas?

Of course she’s tired- and I am not sure that it is all sleep deprivation- she is expending a huge amount of energy. It seems as if you have a pretty good handle on this cherub who is fighting so desperately for control. The trouble is,she is winning and losing at the same time. She is controling the situation in the short term- but it isn’t getting her what she wants. The tantrums are an explosion of stress. Most kids who tantrum don’t do it purposefully in the way adullts think of purposeful. They just can’t stand whatever it is anymore. I wonder why this has become such an issue for her now?

Anyway, once you start to remove tantrums from her toolbox by getting her out of the room and not allowing her to use them to manipulate- and you do need a coordinated plan for this, I might start to look at the things I could change in the environment to eliminate the need for tantrums. It always surprises me to a certain extent that we can have a kid who is desperately trying to keep up and control her environment and some adults will assume that the only behavior in need of change is the child’s- the person with the least amount of resources to effect change. Take a look at how things are provided for her, and if they could be done differently. You want to be in charge of these changes and conversations, so it is better if you are a little proactive here- and if the tantruming is treated as a separate issue.It might be that someone is picking on this child too- on the way to tutoring or on the way home or at recess. That stuff is very powerful at her age. I bet if you massage this one a bit you will find some environmental things that will help her out by removing the things contributing to her build up.

Robin

Sara,
Your point is valid, however in elementary school he was the same way with respect to projects. True, this did not keep him up past bedtime. The determination feature, I think is the same.

As a parent of a special needs 11 year old, I agree with the teacher’s last comment.
I’d also consider attending the IEP meetings and telling the team what you need in the way of support for your class. Tell them they might want to consider a behavioral plan for the student.
When my kid threw full tantrums, we had her teacher call us and we picked her up from school and brought her home. Her motivation to control her responses arose from wanting to attend school, and it worked. She hasn’t thrown a tantrum in over a year.

Wow! This is a tough one! I dont think I have any answers but I know where your coming from. I sort of have a similiar problem. I have a third grade student who is not very happy to see me arrive at his class. (I am the sped teacher) He gave us such a hard time last year (not as hard as you describe) that we decided it was not worth pulling him out of class. He did meet with the principal to discuss his behavior and has complied within the classroom. (mild attitude in school, his mom gets the brunt of it at home) He gets a separate spelling list (The aide gives him the test) and along with the aide I go into the class for certain subjects. His behavior is more quiet anger/defiance and just a social awareness that he doesn’t want to be associated with the “dumb kids” (told his mom that).

What happened last year? Was your student on a plan did she get pulled out?
Is there a guidance counselor who could talk to her about leaving the room? and maybe go a step further doing a class lesson on diversity?
I am not thrilled with our decision I almost feel that we gave in to him but he is working in the class and accepting (with visible signs of unhappiness)different work.
It depends on whether or not she is going to benefit outside of the class. If she is going to tantrum and obsess over missing stuff in class its not going to be productive time spent for anyone. Not to mention the scene that this must cause in front of the class.
I am thinking (this is only my opinion) that either The Team give her the ultimatum that this is unacceptable behavior (tantruming) and that she will not be able to remain with the class if it continues..(in school suspension???)and part of her day is to go with the sped teacher - no discussion. or a deal is made that she stay in the class but she accept different work /homework possible small group work with a special ed person in the back of the room, tests taken outside the room.
I admire her persistance and drive to do it all and maybe you should let her do all the homework. Making sure she knows that she can stop at a specific point but if she wants to continue thats up to her.. It most likely will wear her down or make her stronger.. Offer some of the work as “Challenge” work so the pressure is not there but you aren’t taking away the opportunity to try it.
I wish I had more to offer. The funny thing is we are meeting with the parent of my student tomorrow to discuss his hostility toward the in-class support. I wish you luck. Cynthia

Where are the parents in this? This case need someone to put their foot gently down and this feels like a parent’s job to me. “Heidi, Daddy and I appreciate how much you want to do but you’re not getting enough sleep. Your wonderful teacher wants you to do fewer problems and so do we - until you catch up on your sleep. This isn’t something Dad and I are going to discuss - it’s a decision we’ve made to keep you healthy. We don’t want to make you feel like you’re not a good student but no one should be up as late as you are.”

Case closed. This isn’t a place where you can put your foot down without them having done it first. Call them up and suggest that they do so and that you’ll back them up at school. Tell them you see she’s tired.

Not giving up is one thing. Knowing when we need a break is another.

I have a son with dyslexia, capd and writing issues and he is very much aware that he is has issues that the other kids don’t have and he really doesn’t like when a teacher comes in to pull him out, he feels like he is being singled out and is embarrassed in front of his friends. This is a tough one because these kids know they need the help but the last thing they want is that attention to be called to themselves. At least for my son that is the case.

I have a son in middle school. He does not need the pull-outs, is has had to make some course changes. He does not always select what I think is best for his academic learning, but for his comfort level socially he has chosen to do what he does, and I let him do it. He also insists on doing the art projects (fine motor delays) that never turn out well, bcs he wants to be like everybody else. A couple of times he came home heart broken bcs the project did not measure up, and I was left to pick up the pcs.. He rarely let me help him with these projects. He has learned to compensate, he challenges himself, and sometimes teachers expect less of him than they should, and sometimes they expect too much. I have come to realize that teachers with parents can only guide, but some children know what they want and just go with it. My son is one of those, he is shy, but he knows what he wants and is not going to listen when it comes to certain issues (even when it is the more difficult road).

As you say, your son is in Middle School. The original poster was inquiring about a much younger child who was sleep depriving herself to do work that was not required.

Middle school and elementary school are two very different ages. Sleep deprivation and projects poorly done are also two different matters entirely.

Your son is an adolescent whereas the child in question is just that - a child and a tired one at that. With a middle schooler and certainly an upper schooler, parents and teachers can only be guides but with a young child it’s entirely different. Young children can still be directed to doing what’s best.

I celebrate that you and your son have arrived at a comfortable understanding of each other and hope the young child in question also arrives at a more comfortable spot in her relationship to school and school work.

You could make it clear that not all students are doing the
same work and that’s okay. Not all students read the same books,
nor do all do the same homework. This student should not be given the homework that is too demanding. Limit the amount of time that the student should spend on homework. The student shouldn’t have a choice. Maybe you could consider “extra credit” work to give the student a chance to go above and beyond.

I am going to answer around some of the paragraphs. It makes the answer sort of long but I think the comments will make more sense:)
>
Recently, she has begun to refuse to leave the
> classroom, insisting she wants to do “what everyone else is
> doing.” I’ve pointed out that other students get “pulled
> out,” but she still refuses, to the point of throwing
> tantrums. (Developmentally, she seems younger than third
> grade.)

Tantrums should be an instant”out of the room with no further questions” activity for her- that should never get her what she wants. Period. I would sit down with Mom and Dad and your administrator and work out a plan to manage this one.

Since it seems as if you have identified some of the triggers however, I guess I might try to work with your Resource teacher to think creatively about how services are delivered to your class. Does this child meet in small groups? Could those groups meet in the class? Could the person providing her service give the homework? Could you teach her group and the resource person meet with your group for a while?

Furthermore, she insists she do the same homework
> other students do, and doesn’t want me to cut the amount. I
> have conferenced frequently with her parents about this, and
> she throws tantrums at home if they won’t let her finish her
> homework. She will sit for two or three hours in the evening,
> just trying to keep up. My heart goes out to her, and I feel
> awful about this. It’s not like I have a homogeneous group of
> students—several of them get pulled out on a regular basis,
> and being a multi-age group they are all good at different
> things. I’ve tried pointing out to her and to the class the
> things she does well. They are very good at supporting each
> other, but I just don’t know how to deal with this situation.

Does your entire class get the same assignments in all areas? That could make it difficult, but if she meets in groups and the person teaching the group gave them their HW than you might work your way around this one.

> I can tell she is tired—she says she’s not, but she seems to
> be getting more weary every day. She won’t give up, and
> that’s not an attitude I want to squelch. At the same time, I
> don’t want her to burn out in third grade. Any ideas?

Of course she’s tired- and I am not sure that it is all sleep deprivation- she is expending a huge amount of energy. It seems as if you have a pretty good handle on this cherub who is fighting so desperately for control. The trouble is,she is winning and losing at the same time. She is controling the situation in the short term- but it isn’t getting her what she wants. The tantrums are an explosion of stress. Most kids who tantrum don’t do it purposefully in the way adullts think of purposeful. They just can’t stand whatever it is anymore. I wonder why this has become such an issue for her now?

Anyway, once you start to remove tantrums from her toolbox by getting her out of the room and not allowing her to use them to manipulate- and you do need a coordinated plan for this, I might start to look at the things I could change in the environment to eliminate the need for tantrums. It always surprises me to a certain extent that we can have a kid who is desperately trying to keep up and control her environment and some adults will assume that the only behavior in need of change is the child’s- the person with the least amount of resources to effect change. Take a look at how things are provided for her, and if they could be done differently. You want to be in charge of these changes and conversations, so it is better if you are a little proactive here- and if the tantruming is treated as a separate issue.It might be that someone is picking on this child too- on the way to tutoring or on the way home or at recess. That stuff is very powerful at her age. I bet if you massage this one a bit you will find some environmental things that will help her out by removing the things contributing to her build up.

Robin

Sara,
Your point is valid, however in elementary school he was the same way with respect to projects. True, this did not keep him up past bedtime. The determination feature, I think is the same.

As a parent of a special needs 11 year old, I agree with the teacher’s last comment.
I’d also consider attending the IEP meetings and telling the team what you need in the way of support for your class. Tell them they might want to consider a behavioral plan for the student.
When my kid threw full tantrums, we had her teacher call us and we picked her up from school and brought her home. Her motivation to control her responses arose from wanting to attend school, and it worked. She hasn’t thrown a tantrum in over a year.