New to LD

If he has a lot of reversals, I would recommend taking him to a developmental optometrist for evaluation. You can find certified developmental optometrists in your area at http://www.covd.org. This eval includes about 20 tests of visual function not done in a regular eye exam.

If he has trouble following multi-step oral directions, doesn’t participate well in group discussions, says “what?” a lot, you might want to also get a CAPD evaluation. You can find audiologists who specialize in CAPD at http://pages.cthome.net/cbristol/

You might also want to request from the school (in writing) a complete speech and language evaluation. You would want to be sure this eval includes the SCAN (a screening for auditory processing problems) and the LAC and/or CTOPP (tests of phonological awareness).

Auditory and/or visual processing problems are common causes of inattention. What you are describing really doesn’t sound like ADHD, or even ADD. I would start with the developmental vision exam and see what that shows up.

Mary

Careful with the ADHD - there are different types - which a trained professional should diagnose - that may be difficult for a parent to detect. This happened to us, even my daughter’s classroom teacher didn’t see it. Look at his preschool, kindergarten and this year’s report cards. Do they say things like “works better in small groups” “needs reminders to pay attention” “doesn’t finish all work” “has trouble understanding directions”, stuff like that - they may not necessarily mean he’s definite ADHD - but will give you a clue as to whether the possibility is there (again you need a trained professional like pediatric neurologist to diagnose). His avoiding school work can be ADHD and/or difficulties learning to read - but there is a problem there, you are right to figure out what it is and the sooner the better for him.

The lovely thing about ADHD is that it’s multi-faceted - it never looks the same in different people. By the way, my daughter is into art. She could draw for hours focusing in on little details in her art. I had the same reaction as you - I knew she could focus, so how could she have ADHD? Acutally that’s about the only thing she could focus on then. We’ve since learned it’s called “hyperfocusing” which is what ADHD’ers do when it is a passion for them.

Also, many ADHD kids have difficulty learning to read (dyslexic). It’s not uncommon and in fact can be very typical. I’ve read that something like half of ADHD’ers have “comorbid learning differences.” The ADHD and dyslexia go hand in hand - they feed off each other in a bad way - and if he has ADHD, you’ll need to address both of these with him. This is how the neuropsychologist explained it to me about my daughter - if she had just the ADHD or just the trouble learning to read, she’d probably be OK - the fact that she has both is a double whammy which was causing her all the trouble.

Anyway, I’m rambling now. My point is don’t dismiss the ADHD possibility like I did. My daughter still wasn’t doing well after we started addressing the reading. She only took off or made dramatic improvements when we addressed both attentional and reading issues. I consider myself intelligent - but this one hit me like a ton of bricks.

Good luck.

MaryMN
By any chance a sped teacher or slp?
You seemed informed on many issues.

Maybe you could write back and we could share info

MaryE

parent. A lot of what I’ve learned is just from hanging out on the net for a couple of years, following leads in posts, networking with other parents, etc. I know a lot about developmental vision because that was my dd’s primary deficit. I’ve learned a lot about CAPD from my neighbor down the street and other parents with CAPD kids. A lot of us have swapped information after getting trained in various therapies. Always one to go overboard, I got certified in Phono-Graphix, PACE and FastForWord so I could provide them all to my dd. Am in the process of training on Interactive Metronome so we can do that too.

I’ve pretty much given up on private emails, as they can become very time-consuming. Have decided it’s much better to post publicly, as then many people can share the information.

The truth is I find most sped teachers and slp’s to be sadly out-of-date on what’s currently available in the way of therapies, and sometimes very clueless about LD diagnosis. Most don’t know how to use the internet to advance their knowledge, and many also don’t have the time. I don’t blame them, but I also don’t entrust my dd to them!

Mary

My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and after some of my own research, I could definitely see the symptoms. But, put a puzzle, coloring project or good computer game in front of her and she could disappear into her own world for hours. I was told that she could focus on things that were very interesting to her, but if it was difficult, then she could not sit still for a minute. She has also been diagnosed with central auditory processing disorder (CAPD) and visual processing disorder. We have been through therapy already for the visual processing problems and visually, she now works above her age level. I was also told by my doctor, that if all my dd had was ADHD, that would be a lot easier to deal with. But, unfortunately, ADHD a lot of the time comes with other problems. If you spend some time reading the messages on this board, you will find a lot of parents dealing with not one, but several LD’s and ADHD. I, too, was new to this board a couple months ago and I now check in every week or so. It helps me to know that I’m not as alone as I thought I was. It also has help me get some ideas on how to get some help for my daughter. Don’t wait to ask for a diagnosis. And don’t let anyone talk you into something that you don’t believe. I had a school psychologist observe (for about 15 minutes) my dd at school and tell me that all she needed was more discipline. Luckily, I was just bullheaded enough not to believe her and I took my daughter for an independent evaluation. That’s how I got started. I figure that I didn’t really want to know that my daughter had all these problems, but I know now that I can’t help her if I don’t know what the problem is.

Has your son been tested? Testing might offer insight into any issue or issues your son may be contending with. I have seen ADHD kids able to apply themselves to a task as well as having seen ADHD kids who can’t stay on task. The ability to stick with a task can be helpful when trying to figure out a kid but in my experience there’s no one easy way to tell whether any child is ADHD or not.

If I can ask you, how did you address both the ADHD and the reading at the same time?
Donna

I am thinking- which my family always tells me is dangerous- that it might be a good idea to request a full psych eval- cognitive testing, achievement testing, and speech and language. ADD checklists can be a part of this.

He is a little young for the Cognitive part- he is still in the stage I call “plastic brain” where he is developing rapidly so the results from this year may be different next year- but at least it is a start. When you plan this- think about the specific issues you have- reversals, slow skill development, whatever, difficulty attending in class- and assess them. You will have a picture then of how he functions and what he is doing with it. The ADD info goes to a doctor- I like pediatricians with experience with ADD- for the final determination after the psych has scored them.

Tests I would suggest are the Woodcock Johnson III- cognitive and achievement batteries- for cognitive and achievement stuff- The Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test, The Expressive One Word Picture Vocabulary Test, The Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals, some measure of phonological processing-there are several good ones, and whatever else your SLP is comfortable using. Your didtrict likely has ADD checklists that they regularly use. Don’t screeen for ADD in isolation however- if it is going to be done- do it as part of a comprehensive picture. Check his hearing and vision too, and visual motor stuff- maybe with the Occupational Therapist.

Good Luck!

Robin

Michele,

Don’t rule out ADHD because there are situations in which your son is able to maintain attention. It is a common misconception that a child with ADHD cannot pay attention to anything. The truth is, kids with ADHD have a problem focusing on things in which they are NOT interested. Generally, high interest activities are not a problem for them. Be careful also of the “he can do it if he wants to” idea. I heard (and said) that about my son a lot and it turned out not to be true. A more accurate way to describe it would have been to say “he can do it on occasion if he applies extraordinary, exhausting efforts that others do not need to call up to do the same thing.” After many years of hearing that my son did not fit the ADHD profile, a really good, thorough evalaution resulted in a diagnosis of ADHD, inattentive subtype. Everyone should make their own decisions about medication, but for my son, it worked a near miracle. He has been on the honor roll ever since starting (his latest progress report indicated 5 As and 1 B) and he is able to do things he never could before. Lots of people resist the ADHD diagnosis, because there is so much media hype over it. I would say that there is no harm in having an evaluation done to rule it out, especially since you also need to explore whether your son has a learning disability. As someone else pointed out, the LD/ADHD combination is extremely common. For example, my son has LDs, ADHD and is gifted. When he was your son’s age, only the LDs and the giftedness were diagnosed. He was placed in a full-time program for gifted kids with LD, but he did only nominally better in that setting. It was not until we started meds and ADHD counseling that he began to improve. If we had known sooner, he (and we) would have been saved three years of pain. If you don’t agree with the ADHD diagnosis, you have no obligation to share it with the school. If you don’t like the idea of medication ( a lots of people don’t), you don’t have to give it to your child. But, at least in my opinion, it is better to confront the question head-on.

Andrea

I absolutely agree with robin here. They should be doing a comprehensive evaluation.
Now I feel compelled to tell you what your legal rights are.

1. If the school is considering whether he has ADHD,Dyslexia,foot and mouth disease it doesn’t matter, until they do an psycho- educational evaluation.
THEY are legally obligated to evaluate this child.

2. A School psychologist is not qualified to diagnose ADHD,they are obligated to have this evaluation done by a qualified person. (neurologist,developmental pediatrician,psychiatrist,etc.)

3. You may formally request a comprehensive evaluation and they are then obligated to evaluate. I have a form letter for this on my web site.
If you would like a format. Http://specialedmom.homestead.com/index.html

On a personal level, I have two boys,ADHD/Dyslexia
My oldest,has trouble in Math,writing,and spelling. He has visual processing delays,which make his ability to concentrate even harder,not only does he lose task at hand,but when he is listening,he must look away to do it,hence even more appaearances of not paying attention.
My youngest has auditory processing delays,has trouble with writing,and spelling. He loses what the class is discussing becaue he hasn’t processed the last thing that was said etc. He appears off task,because he is now lost on what is going on.

Much time was wasted by teacher’s,and other parents opinions,and observations of what was going on. After evaluations,it made much more sense,and helped to individualize their education. Before that,my kids looked to others as doing exactly the same things. After that,it was obvious they have the same problems,but for very different reasons.

Hi Michelle:
There has been some really good advice in this thread — I especially echo the many who said “start with a full evaluation”, since symptoms can be similar for many different causes. I had the school test my son, and that is sufficient for now, but I think I would go for private evaluation if I had it to do over, mainly because the school evaluation is not as thorough and is not designed to identify giftedness, I learned later. (I’m in Canada, so the situation with school is philosophically and legally quite different — this might not apply for you.)

Someone told me when I was “new” to my son’s difficulties that I should read EVERYTHING I could get my hands on, and focus in on the areas where I saw my son. This was great advice!

My son’s teacher wanted to call him “ADHD, inattentive type” but according to the school psych, it could not be diagnosed since MY questionaires “didn’t provide a developmental history that was in keeping with the DSM-IV diagnosis criteria”. I felt very much (in the presentation meeting, 5 of “them” and 2 of “us”) that I had “not done my part” so to speak, as here in Canada ADHD gets the school EXTRA $. But I answered the questionaires TRUTHFULLY, so I had to stand my ground. My family doctor agreed, so we did not get a referral to a pediatrician.

However, I recently went to the CHADD site, and wished I had gone there long ago — they give a clear explanation that says the child is likely NOT ADHD unless they have definite problems in TWO or more areas of life — JUST school problems are not considered ADHD by the experts. It was nice to have our decision confirmed by “experts”, without putting my VERY sensitive, aware child through an unnecessary “Dr. visit”. I think from what I have read that the advice on the “CHADD” site CAN be relied on, at least to tell you whether you should go for further evaluations, or whether your gut feeling is right.

I knew all along that my son, while disorganized and very imaginative, did not have focus problems, impulsivity problems, listening problems, etc. at home, and I believed that his school behaviour was a reaction to his negative feelings about school, and to the work which was at the time WAY ahead of his reading level. Add a sensitive child and a non-empathetic teacher whom I had already offended by reporting some of her “out-of-line” remarks (to me, about my son) to the principal —and you have a child who looked out of the window or doodled on his paper most of the time.

When I found the “www.dyslexia.com” site, and read the book “Dyslexia: The Gift” by Ron Davis, I saw not only my son, but MYSELF (though I did not have problems with reading I had huge problems with dysgraphia and math) and MY HUSBAND…who then remembered being “flashcarded til he fell asleep” and who perfectly fits the profile of a visual-spatial learner.

You might want to check this site out — Davis providers have had great results with teaching children to manage the symptoms of ADHD as well as correcting dyslexia. If you check the forum, one mom posted just today that her son, who underwent the week-long intensive Davis training three weeks ago, is making great progress. This is a child who WAS on meds, which helped some but not enough — he is now MED-free and making great progress, which is I think what we all want, deep down, for our children.

Good luck in your journey…if you join our forum at www.dyslexia .com you will find a great deal of support, and you’ll be most welcome!

We were having her privately tutored with the Orton by someone very experienced with the ADHD. This person knew how to get my daughter on track the moment she started wandering. (We actually learned a lot from this woman listening through the walls on her lessons). Hearing what went on during private, it started dawning on us how much she was missing in school. The tutor’s tactics seemed to work for a bit. However, then my daughter, shall we say “bottomed out” - she had a few instances during the summer - which completely alarmed us. In addition, her behavior and general happiness level was declining in front of our eyes. (Hint: For ADHD’ers unstructured summer time is NOT GOOD they need lots of structure). We then tried the medication - which has been successful. So the medication plus all the academic intervention/remediation has been great for her. She’s had a better school year than we could have hoped for - she’s happy, her self esteem has rebuilt, she’s almost caught up academically.

I have a 9 year old daugther with dyslexia and dyscalculia (trouble with reading and muddling up numbers, sequencing numbers etc.). I had her assessed 2 years ago and this was proven although I am now still having trouble with getting the maths help. Amy was noticed to be very fidgety and is easily distracted. We had he assessed privately because the system in the United Kingdom is rather slow and has its limitations (rather they take a while to get the children assessed). She is on an Assisted Literacy Scheme given by our Local Education Authority. Definitely in England we don’t get as much help as you do over there in the United States. I would recommend getting him assessed privately and it was done very thoroughly. Good luck.

You have to fight for your child tooth and nail and you are the only ones as parents who can do that. Nag the teachers/schools/principals and make sure that they know of your feelings and they should listen to you….. otherwise you could be loosing out.

Janis