Susan Barton's Readng Program

If des doesn’t jump in and answer this right away, hit the pm button, type in des, and send her a private message. She has this program, uses it, and likes it.

If des doesn’t jump in? Just when would that be? :-)

Yes, I use Barton and I am also certified in Barton for levels 1-3. I think it is a great program, nice that your district is doing this and I would definitely go for it. (Must be in CA). I was the only non-CA person in my certification class of ten.

It has several great things going for it.

a.It is easy to implement, the lessons are pretty much done and you follow them. Some people wouldn’t like that, but you can think up other creative stuff and the tedious aspects are cut out.

b. It is a pretty inclusive program including aspects like intensive phonemic awareness (one whole level, that’s all it is); decoding ala Orton Gillingham that is multisensory and explicit; vocabulary development; fluency; and comprehension and eventually writing. (Perhaps not as comprehensive as Language! though for the tutor or non-classroom use it is comprehensive enough).

c. Uses extensive memory hooks (ie mnemonics for spelling— kiss the cat is the spelling concept of when to use a c and when to use a k at the beginning of the word.) The kids really get this, they check themselves. Uses lots of similar mnemonics, visualizations, etc to tie in sounds to letters, etc etc.

d. Teaches a LOT of spelling. The kids really really improve spelling ability.

e. Several activities the kids really like a lot. One of them is a fluency activity that has a kind of Chinese menu aspect, pick a “who” out of a group; a “did what”; and a “where” and make a sentence.

Minuses are:
a. Maybe like all OG programs tends to be a bit tedious for some kids esp. (Of course, all fun and games and the kids learn zip. So I’m not sure how much of a negative this really is.)

b. And the price tag which you aren’t paying for. I think the price is matched by the fact that you are getting the training in video tape.

c. Some people have said they found the videos dull. They are NOT at all like Susan Barton in person (some day she says she will redo them all and make them a bit more lively). But I have watched all of them many times. There is LOTS of info and they are the best instructional videos I have ever seen (and I have seen a lot, actually judged a whole set of instructional videos as part of one of my jobs). I pretty much liked the videos. The first two sets are particularly good, imo.

I have also had the opportunity to see her in person, once at a conference and once for the certification. She is an excellent presenter and you really learn a lot. Also very neat person, although she is not
at all good in email. (Someone said there phone is out of order, prob. a temp thing.)

This whole thing is a great opportunity for you and your district. There is one other person on the board using Barton. And a couple people that have had contact with her, not sure that one is reading right now.
Ask away on any question.

—des

One more thing I wanted to add now. This is a very effective program esp on the phonemic awareness front. I had a kid who had gone thru step 4?? or so on Wilson. Anyway, she had gone thru schwas and so on, but she could not hear consonants in blends like the /l/ in “bl” etc. or the “s” at the end of “st”. This issue was resolved so quickly in Barton that by the end of the first lesson, she was able to hear these. (Note she is not teaching blends as separate entities, ie “bl” etc, this was learning how to hear these in a syllable. I would have thought it was a fluke but I had other kids start to hear these quite quickly as well. They just had not been thru another OG program.

—des

Hi Charlotte,

I also use the Barton system and can tell you that from my experience, it works where other “reading systems” fail. Barton redefines the word “explicit”. I agree with des in that it can get a bit tedious. I first became aware of the Barton system from a dyslexia researcher at the University of Florida. Although I am not certified as des is, I have worked through level 9. Level 4 is a tough one IMO. The gains one particular student had were nothing short of remarkable, as confirmed by aforementioned dyslexia researcher. This student did an intensive and became a “master phoneme manipulator”. It was awesome to watch his progress. I am currently working with another student, 12 y/o female, who I suspect may have auditory issues. Differentiating between vowels sounds seems to be very difficult for her and her auditory memory appears to be weak. Any suggestions here would be helpful. (I am encouraging her parents to look into this further.) However, with the Barton she is prompted during the lessons to [i]slowly [/i]repeat the words, and I have seen her hear the sounds she wasn’t aware that were there. Again, the explicit thing. But it IS hard work for the kiddos, but I have seen their hard work payoff big for them. No longer struggling to break the code and able to keep up with their peers. My experience has been nothing but positive. Hope this helps. D

>I also use the Barton system and can tell you that from my experience, it works where other “reading systems” fail. Barton redefines the word “explicit”. I agree with des in that it can get a bit tedious.

I hadn’t thought of that, but yes, this is definitely the case. She explicitly goes thru things that Wilson, say, and other OG programs don’t even get into. For example, I have seen the different between how Barton teaches double consonants vs a highly touted OG system here. They just say Most of the time the consonants are doubled (what about hoped and hopped?,etc). Barton explicitly has the kids manipulating the words with and without the double letters.The kids know why the vowel has to be doubled and can tell you in their own words.

The kids get so they can describe for you the exact phonic rules and why. You ask “why do you do this not that” type questions, though it is not as Socratic as LMB. She clearly has had the LMB background and it shows.

Tedious, well here is a typical lesson that you would prob. not get thru in one day from bk 3 (a new concept is introduced at each lesson):
review of diagraphs, vowels, units; extra practice sheet (last times lessons); phonemic warmup; new teaching 1 and 2 (variation of 1); Spell real words on tiles; read nonsense words on tiles; spell nonsense words on tiles; read word on paper; spell words on paper; Sight word reading deck; sight word spelling deck; read phrases; read phrases and sight words; read sentences; read a story. (Bks 1&2 are a bit less involved). In one explicit phonemic awareness is really taught, and I have heard someone say it would be considered quite advanced.

All the stuff on tiles is repeated on paper and everything is gone thru in nonsense words and real words.

> I first became aware of the Barton system from a dyslexia researcher at the University of Florida. Although I am not certified as des is, I have worked through level 9.

Well I haven’t gone thru 9. The highest I have gotten anybody is 5. (I think it might be downhill from there, but it worked me out of a job. Mom believed that now she was reading grade level books and didn’t need me anymore.)

> Level 4 is a tough one IMO.

You can say that again!!!

> The gains one particular student had were nothing short of remarkable, as confirmed by aforementioned dyslexia researcher.

The student I got to 5 went from a 3 to a 5th grade reading level (grade and levels arent’ really correlated but I think she knew enough stuff that wasn’t taught yet— silent e’s) that her mom said she was spelling seven syllable words , etc. Anyway that was in about 8 months going 3 days a week.

> It was awesome to watch his progress. I am currently working with another student, 12 y/o female, who I suspect may have auditory issues. Differentiating between vowels sounds seems to be very difficult for her and her auditory memory appears to be weak.

Well I would probably suggest LiPS. No doubt you would need the training. I have done it without but then I also spent about 100 hours with the manual and going thru the materials with the manual. I also spend another hour before I attempt to teach it.

You could also just teach her the vowel circle part of LiPS. I think you could do this without the training, IF you bought the manual and the video training for vowels. I wouldn’t call the video a real training tape, at least not like Barton training tapes :-). But it does take different children thru the vowel circle with Nancy Bell, Patricia Lindamood, etc. If you did the vowel circle I would recommend 3 times a week, and making up the materials first and going thru them with the manual yourself. BTW, it isn’t the most recommended thing, the training would be much better, but I think she could pick up a lot with the LiPS. You could even go thru the manual and pick up some stuff re formation of sounds and then bring that back to Barton. The difference between “e” and “i” is particularly useful.

>there. Again, the explicit thing. But it IS hard work for the kiddos, but I have seen their hard work payoff big for them. No longer struggling to break the code and able to keep up with their peers. My experience has been nothing but positive.

I would second the hard work thing (or maybe 3rd it).

> Hope this helps. D

—des

“Well I would probably suggest LiPS. No doubt you would need the training. I have done it without but then I also spent about 100 hours with the manual and going thru the materials with the manual. I also spend another hour before I attempt to teach it. ”

What’s another 100 hours at this point, right? LOL :lol:

I would like to purchase a used Barton to use with students at home. It is so price prohibitive to buy. Does anyone have any ideas?

>I would like to purchase a used Barton to use with students at home. It is so price prohibitive to buy. Does anyone have any ideas?[/quote]

I have a couple suggestions or comments.

1. What have you tried so far? Have you used any other programs?
Victoria talks about the books Check and Double Check which are phonics based, rather explicit from the sounds of it. EPS has Explode the Code for the younger kid (also there is the UK Jolly Phonics with a very good reputation). There are OG based programs that are very inexpensive (look at www.epsbooks.com) such programs as PAF, Recipe for Reading, etc require no training. There are also the Pg based programs. Phonographix and various off-shoots. Anyway my point is one of these less intensive programs may be all your kid needs.

Do not expect as extensive a program, but not everybody needs it.
Consider getting book 1. It is a bang up phonemic awareness program that will help your kid regardless fo what else you use. That level is $250.
You can resell it here, no doubt.

1. Would you think about hiring a tutor? Depending on how much it is per hour (on the low scale or the high scale) you could end up better doing that. If the tutors charge on the low side it would be about $700 a year.
You could actually get a Barton tutor on the webpage (I think you have to email), if you don’t live in the boonies. If you live in NY it would be cheaper to do it yourself. If the tutoring is $35/hr twice a week, you would end up paying about $700 a year if you go for 10 months. If it is $60/hr then it gets to be around $2800/year. You could get the whole Barton series for that that would go up to the ninth grade level and take roughly two years. (You don’t buy the series all at once, so it is divided up.) If you are in Albuq. you can come to me. :-) I am at the low end.

3. Another idea is that if you have a friend or a no. of friends with dyslexic kids then you could form kind of a group and buy the materials together.

4. You might look for used sets. They have got to be somewhere. I did see Book 1 on this site once. You could put up a notice in announcements saying you are looking for a used set. Then you go and sell it along yourself. The first 3 books are rather high, as they dont’ normally take that long to go thru. Then you get to book 4 and you think you will never get out of it!

—des

I misunderstood the post. Are you a tutor? I’d suggest saving up. Do get level one though for sure. Put any kid with poor phonemic awareness in it and you won’t regret it.

Some of my other comments might apply as well, such as looking for used sets and getting other programs.

—des

A Holly is (or perhaps has) selling book 1 under announcements. You can go look there.

—des

I am interested in looking at this program. Who sells it or is there a website for more info?
Thanks

Take a look at www.bartonreading.com

I want to make another stab at the expense question. It is an expensive
program, but most of the OG programs are, if one takes into consideration that you have to go somewhere to get trained (unless you are lucky enough to have the training come to you). Still the training costs can be pretty high. Barton includes the training in the cost of the program, and is on video tape. This is a LOT cheaper in many cases than going somewhere (air fare, etc.). That’s the reason I picked Barton. Being in NM means not too many opportunities will come to me. (LMB will not even do training in Phoenix anymore. No demand.)

There are other OG based programs to chose from, and many of them do work well with the right students. Some do not require training. Still some of these are pretty barebones. I have one called Morton Dynamic Phonics that I use with students who really don’t require the intensity of Barton. I haven’t used it enough to evaluate it. There are others on www.epsbooks.com. The programs in the back like Alphabetic Phonics, Slingerland, etc. require training.

There are people who have a good enough grasp of principles not to use
any sort of program at all (I think Victoria comes to mind, she uses some books, but without her knowledge of the subject, they wouldn’t be so useful.) I wasn’t as knowledgeable as Victoria in reading instruction. I didn’t have years and years. I had some silly ideas I had gotten from college and a handful of things I had seen and heard of. I really needed more of a basis to go from when tutoring. I got this from Barton.

I think there are studies on this, that the effectiveness on reading instruction depends on the skills of the teacher. Now of course, as with anything you go into something with some skills that might help you along the way. I saw from the Barton certification class than even using the same sets of instructions, the same videos, etc. there were widely different abilities in the class, and some had no ability to implement them at all.

—des