Does anyone know if the Fastforword product does anykind of auditory tonal training thru bone conduction?
My dd has been thru sound therapy, but we have not had any ‘boosters’ for 3 years now. Shame on me, I knew she needed to come in for maint. periodically, but in my heart I had just been hoping she was growing out of her CAPD (the school had done a SCAN on her and told me she was fine 2 years ago?).
My motherly instinct finally kicked in this year as I felt I saw some slippage. Her selectivity (meaning being able to differentiate sounds a certain frequencies) was closed in her left ear and her bone conduction was all out of whack. Her air conduction was still pretty good(so at least that piece is working good now).
We are now doing some more rounds of Tomatis and I felt I needed to follow-up with ‘something’ (like I believe her auditory memory is low again).
I’m thinking Fastforword might be good for her, but I’m always very hesitant about spending the money for FFW as I’m not sure now if it will actually address her bone conduction issues or what benefit she would get from it? After 6 sessions of sound her selectivity is now open again - so I don’t think I need to retrain her ability to differentiate sound.
Anyone familiar with both sound therapy and Fastforword enough to know how/if FFW picks up where S/T leaves off?
Next question
Part of me wonders if the ‘slowing down of the sounds’ and the whole language piece would be beneficial to her. So next question is - Does anyone know of which auditory processing tests would be able to determine if there is benefit to FFW for my dd? Are there certain subtests or scores you look for to be a match for FFW?
I think I will dig out my Earobics CDs and see how she does now on them. My feeling is that she will breeze thru. I know this is not a real good test, but I remember an old thought from this board was that if you could easily do Earobics, you may not need FFW?
Re: Fastforword Language and bone conduction
It might be. It is probably hard to know for sure unless you do it. My son had the recommendation to do it from both a slt and an audiologist so I went ahead and did it.
Another way to think about it is that you know your daughter has auditory processing issues. You know they don’t have a motor component (as I recall you looked into IM and she scored above average). The only therapies really available that directly address auditory processing are sound therapies and FFW. You have done sound therapy. If you still see some remaining issues, it might be worth it just to make sure you have all bases covered.
There is some sort of guarantee with FFW. If your daughter sails through it all, then you aren’t going to see any changes. You probably can get a sense of that early while you can still get your money back.
I know a few kids who had no trouble with it and saw no changes.
Beth
Thanks!
Beth - I appreciate your response. That is a good thought on the ‘money-back’.
I pulled out Earobics and Brainbuilder last night and she willingly did them! I was surprised on Brainbuilder that she had retained the level she had accomplished when she was 6. She was at a level 7 on both visual and auditory after only 10min on the program.
Earobics was very easy for her as well, but I think I want her to continue until she hits some harder levels. The beginning levels (even on the advanced menu) are still pretty easy. I want to see how well she is hearing the different sounds in the words. Which is really what I can determine Earobics trains them on for the most part.
You remember correctly on the IM!! (no issue with your memory - lol). She scored the highest score the provider had seen from any child.
I wish there was more information available on auditory processing issues as it relates to air conduction/bone conduction/memory - both working and digit span. I can’t really find any new information that wasn’t out on the web since 1999!
Re: Fastforword Language and bone conduction
I was thinking after I wrote that the two children I can think of who did not benefit from FFW were nothing like your child. One was misdiagnosed as having auditory processing issues–well, she did but turned out she was really mentally retarded. The other was Mary from MN who used to post here a lot. Her daughter did not have an APD diagnosis. She did it anyway to cover all bases I guess. She flew through the program.
I think with your child the issue is whether you have gotten the same benefit with other approaches. And whether it is worth ($ and timewise) what benefit you might see.
Beth
Beth
Re: Fastforword Language and bone conduction
Dea,
I’m honestly having a little trouble following your bone conduction vs. air conduction line of thinking. If the ears are clear and the pure tone audiogram is normal, bone conduction is really irrelevant. Bone conduction testing is done when there is some abnormality in the outer or middle ear and sound cannot be transmitted to the cochlea. If there is a problem, then bone conduction testing is done to rule out sensori-neural hearing loss. I have never in my life heard of any kind of auditory training involving bone conduction with the exception of one boy who was born with malformed ear canals and has some conduction hearing aids to help his conductive hearing loss.
I really feel that an evaluation by an APD specialist SLP or audiologist would be a good idea before spending the time and money on FFW.
Janis
Bone Conduction
At the listening center we go to, they have a listening test that tests both air conduction and bone conduction(This is NOT a pure-tone hearing test as an audiologist would use). The results are mapped to a listening curve that shows what areas are deficient in motor, language and creativity. (it’s kind of a bell curve w/ the curve going up - well on my dd’s test/curve, her air is looking good, but bone curves totally in the wrong direction and her left ear is much worse than her right). They then customize this to a listening program. Bone conduction is a key component and the headphones transmit both air and bone. Bone Conduction plays a role in the vestibular system function. The headphones they use transmits filtered and gated sounds both air and bone to exercise the vestibular system.
It’s hard to explain. I only know it works very well for my child (or I wouldn’t be going back). Even last night at her tennis lesson, she told me she could HEAR her coach (she’s in an indoor bubble and it’s VERY echoy - she has commented before she has to lip read her coach or insists I stay so I could tell her/remind her what coach said). I also noted she was MUCH more consistent last night.
There is some connection on the bone conduction and CAPD(and I’m seeing it with my child). I just can’t find much on it. Your comments also have me thinking and wondering if she has some kind of physical problem with her inner ear and that’s why her bone conduction just doesn’t want to ‘stick’. We are seeing a different therapist (who is new since we were there before). I didn’t get alot of info from her when I asked. She stated that just all the growth changes, hormones etc. could have caused it to degrade as much as it did. My intuition is just telling me something different.
one more comment
Re: ‘I have never in my life heard of any kind of auditory training involving bone conduction’.
If you are not familiar with psychoacoustic therapy programs, you probably would not have heard of alot of programs that use bone conduction. All the Tomatis Centers do bone conduction. It’s one of the basic differences between Tomatis and many of the other psychoacoustic therapy programs. TLP, Sonomas (and I don’t think AIT) do bone conduction. Plus none of the home programs would be successful with it as the headphones required are way to expensive.
There are around 30 centers(most in US) alone that have recently been trained in and using Dr. Minson’s new Dynamic Listening System technology (it’s basically a more modern version of Dr. Alfred Tomatis’s electronic ear - he is using digitized music and updated sound equipment). A couple of the other Tomatis Centers (I know the one in Canada and the one in Bethesda) are doing some kind of updated home program as well. Dr. Minson was also a co-developer of TLP.
If you desire more information, they have alot on their web site:
www.centerforinnerchange.com
one more comment
Re: ‘I have never in my life heard of any kind of auditory training involving bone conduction’.
If you are not familiar with psychoacoustic therapy programs, you probably would not have heard of alot of programs that use bone conduction. All the Tomatis Centers do bone conduction. It’s one of the basic differences between Tomatis and many of the other psychoacoustic therapy programs. TLP, Sonomas (and I don’t think AIT) do bone conduction. Plus none of the home programs would be successful with it as the headphones required are way to expensive.
There are around 30 centers(most in US) alone that have recently been trained in and using Dr. Minson’s new Dynamic Listening System technology (it’s basically a more modern version of Dr. Alfred Tomatis’s electronic ear - he is using digitized music and updated sound equipment). A couple of the other Tomatis Centers (I know the one in Canada and the one in Bethesda) are doing some kind of updated home program as well. Dr. Minson was also a co-developer of TLP.
If you desire more information, they have alot on their web site:
www.centerforinnerchange.com
Dea,
We did FFW and TLP so am generally familiar with both. Frankly, I’d be surprised if FFW did what you want. The basic premise behind FFW is that kids with auditory processing issues process too slowly. So it slows down sounds artificially with the computer and speeds them up as a child gains competence.
We mainly got the receptive language piece from FFW. He had standard scores in the low 80s before FFW and over 100 afterwards. There were some improvements in short term auditory memory as well.
Beth