Well, I did the test with my child syllables were fine. Counting words was 1 wrong as she said sentence with out one word. She had a really hard time with the three sounds o,a,u and f,v,v and ch,j,sh and had to repeat l,r,k and sh,ch sh and i,e,i . She had a hard time repeating them in the same order. I am not sure if its an off day for her as she was very aggravated so I didn’t finish the whole thing,but it’s looking like LIPS is the thing to do next. What does LIPS do? I am asking the school speech pathologist if they have the LIPS program. I am gearing up for my meeting with the school this Thursday. After viewing what she did on this test I can see why she is having so much trouble. She is not remembering the sounds when she hears them. Eegads back to square one! And depending on when I can start the Barton program, if I do it three times a week ,approximately how long will a lesson take?
Re: Didn't pass Barton test
Well if she gets all the sounds correctly but mixes up the order, it might be beneficial to try the audiobox or something like that that works on sequencing and auditory memory. (You could also try retesting, divide the task up into short segments. Test 3 or so, give a break, etc. I do that with the younger kids. It really is a hard test, but IS pretty right on and not age dependent.)
IF she can’t hear the sounds, mixes up the sounds with other sounds, then I think the LiPs program would be higher advantageous. What the LiPS program does it is teaches all the sounds and how to produce them by using feedback of where the lips, teeth and tongue are for the various sounds. The sounds are then given a label, like “lip popper” for /p/ and
/b/. The students discover how their mouth works and they learn to self correct. Later the student learns to feel sounds in short “words”, and at that point they can do Barton. It is a fairly intensive program (3 times a week or more). LMB gets very intensive about it (several hours a day), but it is my experience that while that might be ideal it can be learned in a shorter time. I have also worked with the parents to do follow up though.
It is pretty amazing watching a kid that just struggled thru the pretest for Barton just zip thru it after a few months of LiPS. But one of my current students couldn’t do some of them that you mention (f, v, v), that one is requires you to hear that /f/ and /v/ are different sounds. Watch yourself say them and you can see that they are nearly identically formed and are only different because one is voiced (vocal cords move)—/v/ and the other is not /f/. The kids learn that type of thing in LiPS.
To get your school to do LiPS is something else. Some schools do it but they won’t because you (or anyone else) asks. They aren’t required to, etc. You might be able to find a local ASHA (American Speech and Hearing Assoc. Office) and find someone trained in it.
As for how long the lesson lasts in Barton. Depends on the student and the lesson. The earlier books (except One which is phonemic awareness) generally take a day or two with most students. However, Book 4 is maybe the hardest book and can take 3-4 days per lesson. However by then you have a reader!
HTH,
—des
Re: Didn't pass Barton test
If your child just missed the order, but got the sounds— then you might try something like audiobox to work on sequencing and auditory memory. You might also try retesting but doing it very slowly. Giving three at a time, say. Going back and giving 3 more after a break, etc.
However, the sounds she had difficulty with are really some of the more difficult ones. And if she can’t hear the sounds then she will have trouble with any reading program.
Another thing, is that if she can’t remember, she may have ADD inattentive— it’s something that I think Sue Barton has mentioned.
What LiPS does is teach where the tongue, lips, teeth are in each of the sounds and gives them a name (like Lip popper for /p/ and /b/). They learn to self-correct and discover the differences themselves. After they learn the sounds, the learn to hear them in short words (and this is when you can start Barton). I’m noticing by your description that she missed some really hard ones to hear. The LiPS program really helps them hear those little differences like between /e/ and /i/ and /f/ and /v/.
But getting a school speech path to do this is prob. impossible. If they know it, they may- but if your child doesn’t qualify for services in their terms you can’t get that service. You might be able to find a private speech path. or even private tutor who is trained in the program. But it may take awhile. You can contact a local chapter of American Speech and Hearing Assoc. for assistance.
> And depending on when I can start the Barton program, if I do it three times a week ,approximately how long will a lesson take?
Well depends on the level and the kid. The first book is highly variable. I have had kids get thru it in a session, but the first boy I took on in LiPS took a month or two. The second book should be easier. They average about 1-3 sessions a lesson until book 4, but by then you have a reader!
—des
Re: Didn't pass Barton test
Thank you all, this gives me a little more info to take to my IEP meeting tomorrow. I think I’ve talked my husband into Barton, but then I will then have to drop our reading tutor, and there is a LIPS provider 15 minutes away. So we’ll see what the speech reading specialist says, and it sounds like she knows what she’s talking about from our few conversations together.
Re: Didn't pass Barton test
Well, it’s not really “back” to square one — sounds like she hasn’t gotten off square one in *that* particular skill. She’s been learning a lot of other things though, right? (I find it’s important to make sure the kiddo understands that. Often there’s a feeling that if you perform at X level — especially if there’s a grade level, like second — that you belong in that grade. I stress that ***in that skill*** a second grader usually does as well — but that of course, you know a lot more about reading and knowledge than a second grader, so we want to go back and fix *that skill* so that you can keep learning at the higher level where you belong.)
Re: Didn't pass Barton test
Well depending on how many hours you can devote to it and you kid’s particular problems, the LiPS might take about 6 months. I think it is time really well spent. I’m transitioning a kid off LiPS right now. Be sure you let your child know WHY they are doing what they are doing. I’m not sure the LiPS explanation is always enough. I tell them it is to help them hear all the sounds in words.
—des
Have you tried a cognitive skills training program? They all work on developing auditory memory. (I am thinking of Audiblox, BrainSkills, or PACE.)
If she is having trouble hearing the difference between the sounds you mention, then sound therapy such as TLP followed by FastForWord could be very helpful.
Nancy