Recognizing main concept - how to teach this?

Yes, I think this is teachable, but most of the activities around that claim to teach comprehension and main idea are actually testing, quite a different thing.

I usually work on this orally — read a selection out loud, either the student reads a whole short selection, or else the student and I alternate pages — and then ask the student what it is all about. If they say nothing, I give hints or ask either-or questions (country or city? happy or sad?) and then I help the student formulate a reasonable sentence, and then make him repeat it completely. If they focus on small details, I tell them they’re right, but is that all?

It takes time and work and at times it’s like pulling teeth, but progress does come.

Today my adult student, who could barely read a few hundred words twenty months ago, came with a list of things for me to help him define and learn, including character traits, theme, suspense, point of view, setting, and conflict. I *know* this approach is making progress, even if I do have to drag him through it every step of the way. Twenty months ago he couldn’t even pronounce the word conflict, and now he’s discussing examples of it with me. Before he had no idea what character meant and no interest either; today when asked to describe my character he said “very direct” showing not only understanding but insight as well.

Does anyone know of some short comprehension selections that can be downloaded from the ‘net. This would be for a Grade 6 to 8 level student.

Victoria, your idea about reading the piece aloud to get your student to think is great, but where do you find the pieces to work with?

I don’t download from the net. I am a firm believer in used book stores, sometimes new book stores, and keeping a large home library and/or class library. I can pretty much always find something for almost anyone to read. We take care of the books are they are nearly infinitely reusable.

I use old basal readers for reading levels Grades 2-3, sometimes higher if a kid is really struggling, and then real books — good children’s and youth novels that I enjoy myself — beyond that. We read a whole story of at least a few pages in length, or if possible a whole chapter out of a book — sometimes half a chapter if the chapters are longer.
Basal readers are good sources for fairly short selections, but I like the continuity and sustained interest of a novel as soon as I can get the student there.

We stop and discuss at natural break points, definitely end of chapters, usually end of page, sometimes if there is a lot of detail we stop at the end of a paragraph or two.
At the beginning of the session I help the student remember the previous part of the story in the novel, and then we go on and read the next part. This helps both memory and involvement in the story.

If you can find the Barnell Loft series (there is a similar series out) but the Barnell Loft you might be able to get used. They have Finding the Main Idea, Drawing Conclusions, etc.

Like Victoria says though they don’t teach it, just test it. You can do this orally, finding the topic sentence and so on. It is teachable, but it is much easier to test it. :-)

—des

I have some exercises for that on my website (link in my signature; click on ‘reading comprehension”).

Victoria is right — almost all the “main idea” materials that are out there now are practice in applying the skills you already have. It works for some kids — basically, if a kiddo can’t do them at X level, you back up to C level … what has changed is usually just the complexity of the passage & size of the print :-)

First of all, you want to make sure that the problem is comprehension, not accuracy; see if he can tell you the main idea when you read something out loud. For an awful lot of students, “poor comprehension” means they can’t answer comprehension on a test … becuase they didn’t know what enough of hte words were to get the meaning.
For another set, they could read the words but it was just a string of correctly decoded words, not phrases and sentences with meaning. (These folks, also, tend to do a *lot* better when the passage is read aloud — so if they get more when it’s done aloud, *check* the accuracy, don’t just assume that’s what it is).
And then, there’s another mess of folks who pretty much got the words and the phrases, but the reading is representing just a mess of strings of ideas; how are they organized?
It *Can* be taught… there’s a lot of stuff about it on my site, and there are some good materials from places like Reading & Language Arts Center (www.rlac.com) and Educators Publishing Service (www.epsbooks.com). Joanne Carlisle’s _Reasoning and Reading_ is one of my favorite resources, though to actually *teach* with the stuff I have to make up a dozen or so more of every kind of exercise she has (then again, though, I’m working with students who have trouble with this stuff; maybe other students need less practice).

Have you looked at Visualizing/Verbalizing by Lindamood Bell? Following is a description from their website. We use this program to teach verbalizing the main concepts and as the program directs we use it for increasingly complex written material.

“Concept Imagery for LANGUAGE COMPREHENSION & THINKING

P R O B L E M … 
Michelle reads words accurately, but she can’t comprehend the content. She has difficulty connecting to language she reads or language she hears. Words seem to go in one ear and out the other….

C A U S E … 
A primary cause of language comprehension problems is difficulty creating an imaged gestalt-a whole. This is called weak concept imagery. This weakness   causes individuals to only get “parts” such as a few facts or details rather than the whole picture. “

I agree that Visualizing and Verbalizing would work, but it might be overkill. I think you should try a more direct method first. You could always do V&V (or IdeaChain ), if you are unsuccessful. Some kids have just not learned to do this and need more direct instruction than what they have been provided.

—des

Well,

This web site…
[b]http://www.middleweb.com/ReadWrkshp/inferencerubric.html[/b]
…has an interesting schema on how to learn inference.

The bottom line with learning of the main idea has its root in how well a youngster is taught inference. That is a very important skill to learn when you start learning about history, but most especially reading. I remember how you used to have to learn diagramming sentences and I wonder if that would help. Or even color coding, like make the subjects name be green and what the subject does be blue…or something like that.

The latter color coding sounds like a good idea, if not overdone. Some kids do respond well to such things (while others might be overloaded by it). I’d keep the colors light and use minimal amts to cut down on overload. Instead of coloring it in, you could do underlining. Another thing you could do is physically dividing up paragraphs, have the kid locate the main idea, conclusion, sustaining pts, etc.

—des

Thanks for all the great ideas and thoughts about this! My son was already tested at LMB and I was told he didn’t need VV. I think the problem is the reading has jumped up quite a bit in complexity and my son just isn’t able to reach that level easily. I also think his language skills hold him back (difficulties with describing things and giving details, expressing opinions, etc…).

His reading has improved greatly, but because the material is sooo much more challenging, the improvement is not apparent. Sadly, it is very frustrating for him. Right now for class we’re STRUGGLING though “Sign of the Beaver” which is something like a 5.6 reading level and my son being VERY dyslexic is more like a 3.5-4.0 reading level (He can FINALLY easily read Marvin Redpost and other similar books, but it has been a huge amount of work just to get this far!).

Over the years I have spent a lot of effort on comprehension. I’m constantly stopping after a paragraph or two and asking him lots of questions. Most of the time he follows quite well. I think the problem is that even when he understands what’s going on, he can’t always identify what the main point is. I’ll definitely try some of the ideas here and keep working on this.

Thanks so much! :-)

Thanks for all the great ideas and thoughts about this! My son was already tested at LMB and I was told he didn’t need VV. I think the problem is the reading has jumped up quite a bit in complexity and my son just isn’t able to reach that level easily. I also think his language skills hold him back (difficulties with describing things and giving details, expressing opinions, etc…).

His reading has improved greatly, but because the material is sooo much more challenging, the improvement is not apparent. Sadly, it is very frustrating for him. Right now for class we’re STRUGGLING though “Sign of the Beaver” which is something like a 5.6 reading level and my son being VERY dyslexic is more like a 3.5-4.0 reading level (He can FINALLY easily read Marvin Redpost and other similar books, but it has been a huge amount of work just to get this far!).

Over the years I have spent a lot of effort on comprehension. I’m constantly stopping after a paragraph or two and asking him lots of questions. Most of the time he follows quite well. I think the problem is that even when he understands what’s going on, he can’t always identify what the main point is. I’ll definitely try some of the ideas here and keep working on this.

Thanks so much! :-)

Laura,
The problem you described sounds exactly like the challenges my son had in 4th grade. The reading suddenly became more “for content” reading and he just simply could not handle this at all (he was still very much struggling reader at that time- he could decode most of the material, but very slowly and really with huge effort).

He could read the material, but he had NO CLUE what he was reading. I believe my son was using all the mental power just to sound out the words and the deficits in short memory and poor reading fluency (and virtually no automaticity for multi-syllabic words) did not allow him to keep enough words in working memory to make sense of longer sentences et c.; he just needed to keep all his decoding skills handy just to plow through the text. While he was “reading” he really could not read for meaning.

I would suggest teaching your son the “main idea” concepts et c. when he is reading material at his comfort level- i.e. whatever he can read with ~80 wpm with less than 5 errors.

Just my 2 cents, Ewa

I agree about the Barnell Loft series. I use the primary, middle or intermediate sets depending on where the comfort reading level is, as it’s the [i]skill[/i] you want learned.

There are similar sets out there; just not as well done. Look for Reading Comprehension Skills sets. You have to read the paragraphs where your child chooses a wrong answer and show him why his answer is not as good as the answer indicated — i.e. “It’s only mentioned in one sentence but what are all the sentences talking about overall?” or “This one word limits the meaning of that sentence and changes its relation to the paragraph “.

I’ve found it helpful to start with short sentences, then move to longer ones where phrases and commas have been added. Here you can teach how commas separate “extra” information from the main idea and help your child narrow down to the essence of the statement. i.e. “Cowboys, who were often away from the main ranch for months at a time, and often worked alone over vast holdings during blizzards, droughts, and wildfires, lived hard lives”. Once your child can discern the main idea of a fairly long sentence, move to a paragraph, and then to short articles.

As you read with your child, check his understanding of the vocabulary. If he knows a kiwi as a fruit, he will really be confused when someone describes a kiwi (the bird) running from a dingo!

I find the “how many sentences talk about this” a good, concrete way of dealing with my “can’t see the forest for a tree or two” students.

Just adding to my previous post. I should not have limited my reply to this: [i]You have to read the paragraphs where your child chooses a wrong answer and show him why his answer is not as good as the answer indicated[/i]

It’s just as important to ask him how he arrived at correct answers! If the logic is good, you can point that out so he can see it as a viable strategy. If it’s faulty, you can show him a better one.

oh boy, is this ever a key skill!!!

I think that many reg. students don’t get this automatically either. Very much a ‘can’t see the forest for the trees’ situation. This is why writing the thesis statement is sooooo difficult. the student can give a bunch of facts but the higher order thinking skills of evaluating, generalizing and synthesing are not there to generate the ONE idea unless explicitedly stated. We practice summarising skills and practice some more. Even then many reg ed kids cannot put together THE main idea, although they can summarize the ideas.

I was just thinking the other day of a classic exercise we were required to do in high school, to write a *precis*. This is a super-short summary, in fifty or a hundred words. You are given the required length, you have to boil down the selection to that length and no more, you have to write in good grammatical English sentences, and you are graded on including all the important facts.
In high school, at first I *hated* this exercise. Those of you who know my … er … discursive style will know why. But after a while I learned to appreciate it. You need to be able to write a quick punchy classified ad, memo, answer in a long-winded committee meeting; these are good real-life skills. And this exercise makes you go over and over the selection and select out what it truly the main message plus the four or five most important supporting facts.

who would be the most qualified school person to help a child learn how to pick out main ideas, topic sentences and the process of writing a summary? My son is in the 6th grade and has this learning disability. He also has ADHD, and does have an IEP. However they placed him in a “study hall” 5th hour (in place of an elective class) where the teacher has a regular class as well. Therefore he is only getting help with getting his homework done early and not anyone actually teaching him these skills. Would a speech therapist be someone? :?:

who would be the most qualified school person to help a child learn how to pick out main ideas, topic sentences and the process of writing a summary? My son is in the 6th grade and has this learning disability. He also has ADHD, and does have an IEP. However they placed him in a “study hall” 5th hour (in place of an elective class) where the teacher has a regular class as well. Therefore he is only getting help with getting his homework done early and not anyone actually teaching him these skills. Would a speech therapist be someone? :?: I should add that his reading on the terra Nova is in the 92% and his language is in the 72%. He is extremly articulate, just cant seem to get it from the brain to the opaper

Not to sound sour but a study hall is someplace where quiet is enforced and staudy materials are at hnad. It would be difficult for most students to ‘study’ while another class is going on. Some superstudious could but most students would not function well in this situation.

I think you need to revisit the plan for your student. A study hall is good if he/she simply needs more time to do teh required work. If he/she has other deficits -such as reading comprehension, or poor writing skills or poor executive function skills then a study period isn’t enough.

Frankly, what you have is a session where the school calaim that your son is supervised. I would call it babysitting.

Any classroom teacher should be able to do, any resource or reading specialist could do it for sure. An aide with the right materials and focus could probably do it.

Others may come in here but I think one of the SRA kits used to focus on this. Perhaps on of the reading specialists will comment.

Who would be the most qualified person … to be blunt, quite often none of his teachers. It is surprising and depressing how poorly prepared a lot of teachers are. They may be quite lost when they have to step outside implementing a teacher’s manual. Where you can find a good teacher in his school is a matter of luck; you have to get to know the staff and find out who really does have in-depth knowledge and an enquiring mind and the willingness to try various approaches until something works. Often a private tutor is worth the money, to get someone who is used to working outside the box.

I agree that this sounds like a babysitting period — though that’s not always a bad thing, if the setting is right and his skills & focus are right to use the time constructively. SOmetimes a period just to work on homework is a godsend. I’d want to know how much time he spends just vegging out, though. Do they keep track of what he accomplishes each day/week/month? There should be some accountability — and you can do that even with the way things are. My resource kiddos had notebooks and got graded on work they did every day(whether it was the homework one or two of them did bring, or the skills work I had for them if they didn’t). By the end of the quarter they could actually see evidence of effort and learning.
And victoria’s right — hey, I didn’t know how to **teach** finding the main idea until I worked at The New Community School (I asked during the job interview if they really taught comprehension skills; most of my training & materials involved having students *practice* the skill, and we’d assess it, and if they couldn’t do it we’d give them something easier to practice.
Now, this method has worked for many students for many years — but if your son isn’t one of those many students then he could use some actual instruction in the task. There are some materials on my site that I’ve used to introduce the concept of main ideas (www.resourceroom.net - go to “Reading comprehension.”)
And, of course, just to confound things it doesn’t matter if that regular ed teacher knows how to do it or not; she can’t exactly do it while she’s teaching another class.