Questions about Adderall XR and side effects

The appetite suppression did not lessen for my son. We tried Strattera which is supposed to be less likely to cause this but we had teh same issues.

Every kid is different-some get over it in 6 weeks, other dont.

I would give it 6 weeks before I would make judgement

Will some weight loss hurt him? My son was already thin so it just made him even thinner, but at 13 I worried about puberty so he has been off the meds for almost two months now. I see less ‘alertness’ just like you said, less interaction and participation in family discussions, and I swear his speech has gone downhill(always a problem anyway)

But I havent see a hige drop in his grades so I’m just biding my time and seeing how it goes

He put on 8 lbs in 2 weeks going off the meds

The weight loss will not hurt him at all at this point. In fact, he welcomes THAT side effect. I just worry that it’s hard on his body. I have a friend who is on a weight loss drug which sounds much like the key ingredients in Adderall and she can only be on it for 3 mo. at a time. She tells me of her suppressed hunger and how well it works for her.

I did go back to the pediatrician today and he lowered the dosage to 10 mg. I guess we’ll give that a try in the morning and see what happens. The nurse at the office did tell me that it’s very important for kids to eat while on the drug. That will stabalize the level in the blood. Right now he still has a stomachache from yesterday.

He is loving the way he feels the drug is working for him at school. He says it ‘s the first time he’s felt “comfortable” at school. I don’t really know what he means but I’m sure it’s just the alertness and not being in a fog. You are right too about the interaction with family discussions. It was like a different kid the last two days. I hate to take that from him and take him off the drug but I sure worry about giving it to him.

So you had concerns about puberty? What are the risks if taking it during puberty if I might ask?

Canada Regulators Order ADD Drug Withdrawn

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 9:04 a.m. ET February 10, 2005

TORONTO (AP) — “Canadian regulators ordered a drug for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder off the market late Wednesday because of reports that it has been linked to 20 sudden deaths and a dozen strokes, including some among children.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration, however, said it had evaluated the same reports and doesn’t believe the data warranted such action in the United States. In a statement late Wednesday, Health Canada said it is asking makers of related stimulants used to treat the commonly diagnosed condition to provide a thorough review of their worldwide safety data.

None of the deaths or strokes associated with Adderall XR were reported in Canada, department spokesman Ryan Baker said.

“However, Health Canada has received eight reports of adverse reactions ranging in severity from convulsions to minor skin rash,” Baker said. “It’s not been determined yet whether these reactions were a result of Adderall XR use.”

Of the 20 cases of sudden death linked to the drug, 14 were in children. Two of the 12 strokes were suffered by children taking the drug. The adverse reactions were not associated with overdose, misuse or abuse of the drug, the department said.”

For your own safety or the safety of your child, take caution. For $250 you can have a DNA drug reaction test that will show if you can safely metabolize Adderall XR. Click here

Should we be surprised? The maker of Adderall had only manufactured calcium before hiring the person at the helm of the Fen-Phen scandal. They instantly begin manufacturing ADHD medications and turn from losing a million dollars a year to making billions.

This Web Site disagrees with the Psychiatry DSM IV criteria for diagnosing ADD or ADHD as a “mental disorder.” However, we are not implying that children or adults may not have difficulty learning, concentrating or completing task etc. There might be a problem but it can be addressed without mind altering and addictive medication.

Ideally before you put you or your child on Adderall, you will explore at least a few other options. Diet can make a difference in many and supplements can make a difference as well. These will treat the symptom, not the cause. The cause can be varied but one thing is certain, it is not a deformed brain or a chemical imbalance. Ask your doctor for a blood test or any test to show you there is a chemical imbalance and you will see a blank stare.

Physician’s take an oath, “Above all do no harm.” We must use that same oath as a parent and for ourselves if we are thinking of taking Adderall.

I am not saying Adderall does not make some children calm and able to sit in their chair calmly. When they grow into puberty is is a stimulant. Adderall can cause enlargement of the heart as well.

All medications come with side effects. You and your physician must decide risk/reward. If your physician prescribed Adderall to you or your child after a 15 minute office visit, RUN FOR THE DOOR. This is your child’s life or your life.

Adderall for adults now. Larger adult market for Adderall, more profit. Before you take Adderall, look at the background of the company making Adderall. Their first drug was Dextrostat for ADHD.

Before that, they made calcium. Lost around $8,000,000 a year before hiring the executive who helped push Fen/Phen.

The manufacture of Dextrostat is Shire Pharmaceuticals of the United Kingdom. Since 1986 when Shire was founded, Shire’s only claim (emphasis) to fame before Dextrostat was manufacturing a Calcium Supplement sold only in the United Kingdom.

On 11 December 2000, Shire entered into an agreement to merge with BioChem Pharma Inc. Dextrostat and Adderall now have a 38% market share in the United States.

Who is the on the Board Of Directors of Shire?

Dr. Canavan. The good Doctor joined Shire in 1994 after leaving American Home Products and American Home Product’s Pharmaceutical Company “Whyeth-Ayerst Laboratories.” Dr. Canavan was Chairman of Whyeth-Ayerst Laboratories from 1987 to June 1990.

What significance does this have with Shire?

Shire Pharmaceutical list American Home Products as a partner in their business. American Home Products is the company that manufactured and directed the marketing of the drug Fenfluramine and Dexfenfluramine also known as Fen/Phen. The Food and Drug Administration, acting on new evidence about significant side-effects associated with Fen/Phen, has asked the manufactures to remove it from the market (September 1997). Fen/Phen was used to help with obesity. The drug was also marketed under the name Redux.

The Fen/Phen drug causes damage to the heart, mainly the heart valve. In July 1997, the Mayo Clinic reported 24 cases of a rare valvular disease in women who took Fen/Phen. The drug Fen/Phen has had an effect on an estimated 11 million people in the United States alone.

In November 1997, the United States Department of Health and Human Services announced “anyone who used Fen/Phen should see a physician to see if there are signs of heart or lung disease”. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and National Institutes of Health (NIH) also announced the same recommendation.

What has been American Home Product’s response to this?

Offer anyone who has taken the drug a free checkup. If you opt for the free checkup you must sign a waiver from all further damages against American Home Products if your checkup is negative. The problem with this, symptoms do not always show up early after taking this drug.

Several Class Action Law Suits have been filed against American Home Products. In December 1999, a jury in Mississippi has awarded claimants millions in damages from American Home Products.

What do you think Shire Pharmaceutical will do after Dextrostat has caused suicides, addiction and a host of health problems. Dr. Canavan and the Companies he has been associated with have already shown that they will not take responsibility for their effects on society.

While Dr. Canavan was Chairman of Whyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, Whyeth-Ayerst Laboratories begins marketing the diet drug Fen-Phen.

Adderall (another drug in the same class as Dextrostat) and Dextrostat account for 63% of all revenue for Shire Pharmaceuticals. Before the introduction of these two drugs by Shire they were losing MILLIONS of dollars every year. Now they Net MILLIONS.

*Forced Drugging of Children*

Before you give your child an SSRI, please read what is happening with Paxil - Seroxat. Click Here

CHILD PSYCHIATRY PUT ON NOTICE DUTCH COMMISSION FINDS PSYCHIATRIC CLAIM IS FALSE - ADHD IS NOT A BRAIN DISORDER –
Click Here

If you must use Adderall, help protect yourself or your child from the damage? Click Here

Hello, my name is Lawrence Smith; I am here to let you know about the
death of our fourteen-Year-old Son Matthew. He died on March 21, 2000. The cause was determined to be from the long- term (age 7-14) use of Methylphenidate a medication commonly known as Ritalin. To read more, Click Here. (Opens new browser)

Adderall
Description:

A single entity amphetamine product combining the neutral salts of dextroamphetamine and amphetamine, with the dextro isomer of amphetamine saccharate and d, I-amphetamine aspartate. Each tablet contains:

The Canadian scare, combined with how well he was doing in school, and worries about puberty made me decide to try to go without

I honestly dont know if we will stay off. And I would never criticize anyone for their decision either way. For now, I wanted to see if perhaps maturity had improved matters. He started meds at 9 and is ADD inattentive only-doesnt drive anyone crazy, thank goodness. I have enough of that with my neurotypical kids-LOL

I dont know if there are any documented puberty dangers. I just worried that he wouldnt be getting enough nutrition to achieve his full height potential. But…..thats just my mom worrying, nothing I have researched

He was in the 70s at age 13 and a height over 5-4. Off the meds he has at least hit the 80s. So you can see why Id be worried…

Amphetamines cause the frontal lobes of the brain to atrophy. That’s the vary part of the brain that is involved in impulse control and inhibition.

I do worry about things like puberty too and what it might do to his growth. I just wish there were some easy answers. I feel like by going to drug route, we’re taking the easy way out. It’s just that everything else we tried did not work. If someone would point me in the direction of something that actually worked, we would try it.

My son wants to take the medicine because he can really see the difference in his performance at school.

Yesterday was MUCH better after dropping the dosage down to 10 mg. He had a focused day AND his appetite was back after school. He didn’t eat much during the day but last night was really hungry.

I do not think there is an LD problem with him either. He doesn’t struggle doing the work—even before the drugs he didn’t struggle. He just couldn’t focus. If he was focused at all he could do the work with ease. He now comes home from school without any homework and is just so happy that he can do all the work at school.

WE have three day weekend now and I’m going to go ahead and give him the med all three days so I can observe him myself during the day.

Focus and concentration are learned behaviors. Part of focus is being able to block out internal and external distractions. Consider all the things he is able to do now. That is proff positve he is able to concentrate and focus. It is just more difficult for him. So he is sub par in that area. That simply means he needs work and accomodations in that area of his cognitive functions. Amphetamines actually destroy the part of the brain responsible for focus and impulse control.

As long as he is on Dexadrine I would not allow him to play any violent video games or let him around firearms.

The most important alternative we tried was alternative education. We used alternative schools and homeschooling, so that we could teach the skills of focusing and organization on a pace that our boys could handle. Actually, it is quite amazing how little teaching there is in school about how to organize or focus attention. Somehow schools seem to expect every child to have these skills in Kindergarten, and if they don’t, manyteachers blame the child rather than figuring out how to teach them. Of course, there are many individual teachers who are exceptions to this rule, but on the average, most kids are just expected to magically learn how to do this, even if they are not developmentally ready to do so. Not to mention the fact that much of what the children are expected to do may either be way to easy and boring or over their head and not understandable. For our kids, we needed individualization of instruction, and when they had it, there was no need for medication. Might be something to consider if you haven’t already.

I think that our society views children as miniature adults in need of management. I see parents negotiating with their kids on behavior issues expecting them to have the maturity and insight of an adult. Educators should know better but unfortunately they seem to hold the same view as the rest of society and when their methods fail they blame the child just as Steve says.

I couldn’t agree more guys. But how does one go about ‘teaching’ the ability to focus and concentrate? Here’s one problem I see in my school. Our school is a middle school with grades 5-8 in it. That’s 5-8. Isn’t that crazy to begin with? Those 5th graders are 10 and 11 years old. If I’ve heard it once, I’ve heard it a thousand times out of the teachers at our school; “If these 5th graders don’t start being responsible……”. It’s a constant mantra. It really makes me upset. These kids are coming from a grade school with K-4 grades and are in self-contained classrooms. They are then expected to move into a middle school where they change classes just like the HS and have 3 minutes to move from class to class, receiving tardies and consequently detentions if they do not make it to class in time. They not only move from one class to another within THAT building but take their PE, band, and vocal classes in the HS which is in another building altogether. I think they are asking an awful lot of these kids. I know that many of the kids make it just fine but there are quite a few that are struggling. I still like the idea of one school I heard of where the teachers move from class to class with a cart with supplies needed on it. Makes sense to me.

I really did hope that my son would be able to make it okay in middle school but it has been a nightmare so far. His self-esteem is soaring despite it amazingly. Most of the kids I’ve seen have just withdrawn from all the verbal tongue lashings they’ve taken from teachers.

I don’t think homeschooling is for us (I don’t feel qualified) but I would like suggestions for helping him “learn” to concentrate and focus.

My son has so much trouble with organizational skills and I have tried to help him in that area but he still struggles with not remembering what his assignments are, forgetting to write down all his assignments in his planner (required by his teacher), forgetting to turn in assignments, losing papers, etc. It’s just been a really long year for him and I want so badly for it to be better for him.

Is there a Sylvan Learning center near you? You need to remember that compared to professional educators like those who teach privately many public school teachers and educators are pretty much the minor leaguers.

They pretty much answer to no one and it the child fails they can blame the child and/or the parents. If there is an illogical inefficient way of doing things the public schools will find it.

My advice for you would be this. Tell your son to put forth plenty of effort but not to take school all that seriously. Have him respect his teachers on the surface while knowing deep down inside most of them are the Al Bundys of the world.

The people working at Sylvan are *exactly* the same people working at the public school — Sylvan takes great pride in that, hiring only certified teachers and preferring those who work in local schools.
You actually get a worse subset, the ones with desperate enough financial problems that they are willing to work for the extremely low pay that Sylvan offers them to moonlight; and running two jobs they are tired and stressed.
The technique most used at Sylvan is repeating several drill sheets on the same topic, sometimes a help if the school’s program is bad or not matched to student needs but *not* a very effective method of pedagogy. There is very little actual teaching and an awful lot of paper-passing.

Public schools take every child in a neighbourhood, keep them six hours a day, cover all sorts of curriculum and mandated other activities, and work under strict budgetary guidelines and huge amounts of bureaucratic regulation. Sylvan centers take in kids whose parents are willing to pay huge fees (of which less than 15% go to the teachers), see them a couple of hours per week, drill only a small set of skills, decide for themselves not only what they will teach but how they will test it and define success (good way to make yourself successful), and have no academic regulations to follow. Comparing public schools to Sylvan is like comparing apples to peanuts.

My guess is public schools are better in Canada where you come from. Here in the US public education is an abomination.

Money doesn’t always mean quality. I know state workers who left cushy state jobs and took less pay in the public sector because they had integrity.

Sylvan does use some of the tried and true methods that get results instead of experimenting by trying to teach with unproven methods and unqualified staff. Teachers at Sylvan are held to a standard of accountibility where as piblic schcool teacher are not. When you can easily be fired for being lazy and incompetent you will get with the program really fast. In our public schoolsystem bad teacher languish for years thanks to tenure.

Sylvan does NOT have a good rep with most parents of LD kiddos. I know of some who have had good experience with math delays there but language delays usually dont fare well. As Victoria said, its the same people doing the same ole strategies which didnt work in the first place or the kid wouldnt be there

But…if we are talking straight attention issues, with no LDs, it might be worth a shot. A one on one or small group will do better for a child with focus issues and I believe they have classes that teach organizational and study skills

Have you asked to see what your school has in that regard? Sometimes there are after school tutoring groups that go ‘unadvertised’-or groups a counselor runs on study skills-they invite what they consider the ‘worst’ kids and your child might not make their cut

Worth a question or two

Is it possible this was just a bad year-transition to middle school is hard for 6TH graders and yours is doing it with 5th? Any hope things will improve next year?

Will the teachers check his assignment book at end of class and sign off? Is there a website that lists assignments? Will the teachers email you weekly assignments?

I find my son responds well to color. Those brains are looking for stim remember. When I say we’re going to a movie, he asks if its the brown or the blue-LOL. Part of this is his verbal LDs, difficulty finding the names of the theatres in that brain of his, but he NOTICES this stuff more than the next guy.

Next year try brightly different colored folders for each class-the plastic ones from office stores last the whole year. Get him matching highlighters-I used highlighters a bunch when I homeschooled. Maybe you could put a highlighted line in his planner for each class-the blue line MIGHT bump his brain to remember to write in the math assignment. If he has math most night, insist he bring home the book EVERY night. I dont want to ruin the kids back but routine really helps these guys. Can you pick him up from school-go through his stuff in the parking lot so he can go back in to retrieve forgotten items

In any case, take time in the morning and after school(even if its bedtime)to go over everything in his bookbag. Routine, routine, routine.

A spreadsheet perhaps with checklists

We are doing one for personal care and my ADDer. The toothbrushing has always been an issue but,w tih puberty, showering has become a NECESSITY and he ‘forgets’ , much to the dimay of anyone sitting downwind

I know it is hard to teach these skills, but it is possible. The problem you are running into here is that the school expects a very high level of skills and your son is nowhere near what they expect. It sounds like you are accurately observing that a lot of other kids are equally unprepared for this, so I hope that helps you feel better about it. One of the key points in teaching anything, but especially teaching to a weak area, is to set up a gentle gradient of increasing expectations so that the child (or adult) feels successful. Obviously, the school is not going to be accomodating in this way. This is why we really didn’t want to get into the public school arena and have used alternatives and home schooling.

By the way, I wouldn’t worry too much about being “qualified” to homeschool - most studies suggest that non-trained parents do as well or better than schools in teaching their children, generally accomplishing more than a year’s worth of progress each school year, while putting in about half of the time that a child spends at school. So it’s not a matter of training or qualification - it’s more a matter of being able to individualize instruction. If you have the energy and the motivation, it’s hard to imagine you would do much worse than what he is getting.

But back to organizational skills…

The most important points are to set up a system where he can experience success, and where there is some motivation for him to work to learn the skills involved. A lot of what doesn’t work for the “ADHD” child has to do with motivation - they just don’t see the POINT of being organized - who CARES what assignments I have tonight - I have an exciting game of basketball planned at recess, and I’m going over to Joey’s after school, and that girl in the third row is totally HOT, etc…. So you have to provide some kind of external motivation. I have found two approaches very effective. First, setting up a reward that is not too far out in the future based on completion of the expected tasks, and second, betting some money or time or other thing he is interested in that he is completely incapable of doing what you are expecting of him. This second may sound bizarre, but for the more oppositional types (like my boys!), it is hard to resist a bet, and it seems very reinforcing for them to prove someone wrong, even if there is no material reward hanging in the balance. Hence the constant arguments and so forth…

So you may have to play around with this, but you have to find a motivating force. Then you look at what he CAN do, and try to push him a little further. The homework log is a great idea, but if that’s a little too much, start with getting the homework PAPERS into a folder. Have a moment after school where you go over what he has for homework for the day. Record his level of success. You may want to break it down so he gets a point for each class where he DOES remember, rather than making it so that he loses points for failing to remember, or that he has to get everything to get any reinforcement at all. You can then have an immediate reward for daily accomplishments (ice cream cone, time with you at the park, 30 extra minutes video game time, or whatever), PLUS you record the total number of points he earns. When he gets to a certain number, he gets a bigger reward (ball game, first-run movie, or whatever he wants to earn). If he is the oppositional type, you will benefit by expressing your frustration if he earns the points too quickly, because you supposedly don’t want to have to spend all this extra money having to take him out to the movies, but darn it, he’s going to make you.

Once he is successful at this level, you start to add more challenges, letting him know that it appears to be WAY too easy for him to win these rewards, and you have to make it harder or you will surely go broke. You will know you are on the right track if he giggles or smiles when you complain about having to pay him off. You can also make “side bets” with your partner or the teacher within his hearing, one of you betting on him to do it today, the other betting against. All of this makes it more fun for him and puts more energy into the idea that completing the task will mean SOMEONE will be losing out because of him! For some reason, my boys always thought this was funny - I guess it gave them a sense of power that they could “control” someone else’s experience by doing their job. And I was happy to be proven “wrong” about their inability to do something, as long as it got done!

Areas to work on might include: time spent on task without mind wandering or without leaving the area, getting started on time, problems correctly completed within a certain time, pages read in a book within a certain time (making sure that he comprehends the reading, of course), books taken to and from school, assignments turned in before the deadline, and on and on. You have to assess what is particularly problematic for your child, and what skills he has to address the area, and pick one or two to work on at a time which you think will have the greatest impact. When it comes down to it, this basic approach will work for almost everyone, as long as you start from where they ARE (not where someone else THINKS they should be), plan it out a step at a time, and make sure the external reward is fun and achievable within a timeframe that is real to them. The more fun you make it to “play the game”, the more likely they will learn the skills and feel good about it. And at the end, you can remind them how you predicted they would be unable to do it, and they PROVED YOU WRONG! Which goes to show them that they can do a lot of things that you didn’t really think they could do (and maybe they didn’t think they could, either!) I did this with my youngest about settling his body down at bedtimem when he was only 4. I bet him a quarter he couldn’t hold his body still for one minute, and increased the time every night thereafter for two weeks, until he could do it for 5 minutes straight with no difficulty whatsoever, despite the fact that it took him probably two full minutes to settle down the first time he tried it. He still remembers this lesson and refers to it years later, and even got into an argument with his ADHD-diagnosed older friend who said he could not control his own behavior. His comment: “You can control your behavior if you want to - you just have to really decide to do it.” A priceless lesson that many adults I know should learn!

In the end, they will never be “Martha Stewart” in their organizational skills, but you can still get them to a better place than they were. My oldest used to spend a long time on his homework, but he still managed to graduate with honors from a regular high school, having never taken any medication, despite being a fairly pronounced “ADHD” case in his elementary years. The main cause of success was our ability to focus our energy on what HE needed to learn, rather than focusing on what the schools thought was important. Academic comprehension was easy for him, but organization and communication were what he needed help with, as well as social skills. Homeschooling allowed us to focus most of our energy on these areas without him having to feel bad about not “keeping up” with the school’s rigid expecations. By the time he got back into school in 6th grade, he was motivated and skilled enough that no one ever suggested he had attentional problems. He still forgot his lunch a lot, and he will never be a great planner, but he is WAY better than he every was, and it was mostly through the methods I have described on this page.

That was longer than I had intended, but I wanted it to be useful. I hope it is of some assistance to anyone wanting to teach attentional and organizational skills to their child.

In re-reading, I am afraid I might have given the wrong impression about betting predicting that a child can’t do something in order to get them to do it. Just so I am clear about this, the “betting” has to be done in a very lighthearted manner, not so that he might take it too seriously. It’s about making compliance into a “game” where HE can win by doing what YOU want. Excessive seriousness is what is to be avoided at all costs!

Steve would you say that the “ADHD” hurdles your son overcame sans drugs made him stronger?

Absolutely. I think it is very important that he realize the fact that, even though certain things may be more difficult for him, he is still capable of doing what he wants with enough effort. He still has to decide that it’s worth it, but at least he knows he is capable of accomplishing difficult goals if he works at it hard enough.

–- Steve

I often wonder if ADHD isn’t a naturallly occurring event that nature has intended just like hair and eye color. If one were to believe that over 1 in 10 kids are ADHD ove would have to see that “ADHD’ occurs more often than left-handedness. The drug companies have not declared left-handedness a disorder, well at least not until they invent a drug that treats it.

My cousin had a son who was ADHD and very agressive. Even as a baby he did not want to be held and was combative. They went the drug route for a month but then decided on a behavoiral approach. Today that boy owns his own company and is on his way to being a millionaire.

We both agree that if he had been drugged for behavior modification purposes he would be a compliant yes man.

I wish society would treat these kids like assets instead of liabilties or cash cows to the drug cartels.

Steve,
I keep reading about your two boys and hope someday that my boys will turn out O.K. The older one(7 1/2) is ADHD and has a NVLD. The younger one is 5. I haven’t decided whether or not the younger one will have any similar issues, But he is stubborn as a mule, and very much an antagonist to most people esp. his brother. He is WAY more prepared for school than his older brother was. For the most part I think that since he seems to worship his older brother, he mimics everything the older one does. This means it seems I have two wild animals loose in the house. They spend all day running yelling, wrestling and jumping around. For some strange reason this just isn’t fun for them outside, maybe because it wouldn’t drive me crazy if they did it outside even though there is a 30’by 40’ play area plus a huge field behind the house.

I am not impressed with the school system. In primary when he would come home in winter half dressed, the teacher said he was responsible for himself not them. If a five year old is this responsible then why is it illegal to leave a child by himself? He still doesn’t bring his books, agenda, and belongings home he is now almost 8. This winter he went through countless mittens and hats(I buy them at the dollar store because when they only last a week quality is not an issue) one pair of snowpants, two pairs of splash pants, a couple of sweaters and thats not counting the stuff that I pulled out of the lost and found myself.

I would love to be able to homeschool him but thats not possible since I work. If you ask my mother-in-law we should just cut down on spending, I said sure we could cut down, but the kids would be awful skinny.LOL

My older son has a very short fuse. It takes nothing for him to blow up. If its not anger then its crying and frustration because he doesn’t understand. Lets just say homework is very much a chore. The teachers don’t see this because he saves it for home where he wont be ridiculed or embarrassed. He is deathly afraid that he will be laughed at. I would love to know how to deal with this. An outburst over homework that involves writing only one sentence results in half an hour of screaming, stomping , hollering and crying. I’m finally going to a new pedatrician after having the one assigned to me through mental health left for a six month leave of absence(I didn’t like him anyway he was rude to my son and didn’t seem too concerned about weight or the fact that my seven year old wanted to kill himself) My son takes 27mg of concerta. This has helped some at school but he still cant stay seated or pay attention properly, I haven’t noticed much difference at home at all. A little off the topic, the school has given an excercise ball to sit on rather than his chair. Reason being he has to concentrate on sitting on the ball so therefore is less likely to fool around in his seat or actually be out of it and wandering around in class. He also has grown about 4 inches in 4-6months but lost three pounds, this concerns me. He complains of stomach pain and a general feeling of unwellness. The 36mg dose affected his sleep and there was no noticable difference. I’m wondering wether he really needs a much higher dose or a differnt medication all together. Nothing was ever suggested by the first pedatrician, he just said since he wouldn’t e there to go to my family physician when I was waiting for the 27mg dose to come on the market(we started with 18mg)

All I hope is that I can help his temper. This way maybe he wont feel so bad about himself and I won’t have to endure multiple outbursts every day. Any input on ideas for keeping him calm, or similar experiences with medication. Thanks tammie

It sounds to me like he is experiencing a great deal of internal conflict. It may help if he knows that doing his best and trying his hardest is all that is expected of him. The school needs to be sending that message to him as well as you.

There could also be a parenting issue but it is my feeling particualarly because he is having stomach aches he is feeling pretty badly about himself. The bad behavior is most likely him acting out. Because children cannot verbally express how they are feeling they act out.

I would take him to a shrink that will say school is causing the problem and that he needs accomdation from the school.

Here’s the rub. America’s public schools are an abomination and what may sound simple and logical to you or me sounds like a foriegn language to our educators. You need to understand that under the veneer of authority and professionalism many teachers portray lies an unmotivated person
who scored very low on her SATs.

I read these posts and feel so lucky sometimes that my child just has the inattentiveness. I feel for everyone out there that has multiple problems with their children. My son doesn’t have the meltdowns, no problems other than the inattentiveness.

I am almost scared to write this as my son is doing so well on the Adderall XR. I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop and to start having some rebounding on it or other side effects. He has finally seen what success in school is all about. It’s like a whole different world for him. I am, however, still very skeptical about giving him a stimulant and would prefer not to.

Steve, I appreciate your posts very much as they are so helpful. That last one was lengthy but full of very useful information that I hope to apply (keep ‘em comin’). I would like to get my son off the medication at some point. He has now seen what it is like to be able to focus so I’m wondering if it won’t almost be easier to show him how to cope once he knows now how it can be for him when he’s focused.

It’s a journey for sure, this childrearing, especially of special needs kids. But I wouldn’t trade mine for the world.

Thanks guys for all the support. This is such a helpful site to go to. I feel like I’m talking to old friends now. :D[/img]

Well, I’m afraid the stimulants probably won’t help with his temper - more likely to make it worse, in my experience! Though some here may have had a different experience, I can’t really say since we didn’t use stimulants with ours.

The youngest sounds very oppositional. The betting and the positive reinforcement techniques are best suited to oppositional children. You might want to get a book on dealing with oppositional children. One I know of is called “Raising Your Spirited Child”, though I can’t remember the author.

One thing you have probably identified accurately is that your getting upset is probably very reinforcing for negative behavior to continue. That’s why some of these “paradoxical” techniques like betting work for oppositional kids - you get “upset” when they engage in POSITIVE behavior, pretending that you have a financial or emotional interest in them not earning the proposed rewards because you don’t want to have to pay up! There are a lot of variations you can come up with, but the main thrust is NOT to get into the nag-and-punish mode of behavior management.

Another thing I invented myself is “energy points”. I used to tell them that I only had a certain amount of energy for doing things with them, and if they used up my energy dealing with problems, I would have none left to do fun things. Every day they started with zero, and got points for anything that enhanced my energy level, and lost points for anything that diminished it. If they ever got below zero, I would do NOTHING for them - no rides, no cooking dinner, no helping with the laundry, no games, nothing until they came up with a way to help me regain my energy by doing something for me. Arguing about whether they lost a point, of course, would drain my energy further and lose them another point. The only caution is that I made sure they didn’t get dug in so far that they couldn’t see a way out, so I never went below minus 2 or minus 3. They usually did a cleaning job or gave me a neck rub or some such thing to earn a point back. It worked very well! Before long, the boys were competing to see who could get more “plus” points. And the number of arguments plummeted. We sort of let it drop out when they got older, but it worked great when they were elementary age. The keys are 1) never get upset about them losing points - be very matter-ofofact about it (remembering that you getting upset is a big payoff!), and 2) get a good list together of all the things you can stop doing when they go below zero, so they are motivated to earn back.

Again, this is what worked for us - you may find totally different approaches that are just as effective. The most important part is not to accidentally reinforce bad behavior by nagging or getting upset.

Actually, I’m glad I wrote this, because I just realized a situation at home where I am doing exactly that. Thanks for the reminder…

Hope that is helpful. Hang in there!

What about alternative schools? Or charter schools? Are there any in your district?

Oppositional is a kind way to describe my younger son. A perfect example of him is the night I told my older son he can sleep in the spare bed in the baby’s room because his brother wouldn’t leave him alone and kept getting in his bed and taking his stuff. The younger one just said that you can’t get away from me I’ll just come in there and bug you. That pretty much sums his character up. He also has just about every little idiosynchrosy (sp?) common in preschoolers only wears certain clothes food has to be just right shoes have to be put on numerous times until his socks aren’t crooked has to have certain dishes. My husband and I disagree, I’d rather make it right to save a battle over a plate or ketchup, but he feels that our son has to do what he is told and take what he gets even if it creates a huge battle at the table.

As far as school goes We live in rural Nova Scotia(Can.)where there are only 70 Students form primary to grade four so there isn’t any room for a change in schools. My husband and I only have one car and work opposite shifts so we don’t have to pay a sitter. You make do with what you have.

My issues are what I’m trying to work on so I don’t lose my temper. I find it hard because I’m on medication for depression that I haven”t go a handle yet. I’m waiting for my doctor to come back from sick leave(she broke her arm skiing)The last thing she said was she might refer me to a shrink. Great I thought now I now I’m crazy!!! LOL
talk to you later Tammie

All kids are different. I think it is important that you realize kids are always testing their limits and trying to take control. They need to be reminded of their limits.

One mistake I see parents and mothers particularly making is negotiating with young children. When a young child asks why sometime the best response is “because I said so”

Sounds like your hubby may be contributing to the problem. Giving orders to an oppositional child is about as helpful as throwing gasoline on a house fire! Maybe you can get him to do some reading, or even print out what I wrote for you and see what he thinks. It should be fairly obvious that what he is doing is not working very well, but he is blaming your child and expecting him to be different than what he is. This will lead only to more opposition and fighting. I am not into giving in on everything either, but you have to 1) pick your battles, and 2) have a strategy to deal with the oppositional attitude. Just being mad at him for not complying will make him worse and worse. I know it’s hard, especially if you are not supported in doing this. It sounds like the first thing you need is for you and your husband to get onto the same page.

As for the antidepressants, I have heard that for some people, they can make anger control more difficult, (at least the SSRI types like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, etc. which are most commonly prescribed these days). Something to think about. Meanwhile, you will need something you can do INSTEAD of acting angry - just saying “I will not be angry” is not going to work. That’s why having a plan is so important. Would your husband go along with a behavior chart, with stickers earned for good behavior? That might be a good place to start. Maybe you should have one for him, too! But see if you can get him on board with some kind of positive reinforcement - that’s the starting point for making improvements. If he only gets attention and strong emotional reactions for misbehaving, that’s what he’ll do. Get him some emotional rewards for doing well, and you will ALL benefit!

Good luck, and keep me posted!

You are definately right, my hubby is a big part of the problem. To make it short, he thinks that our son is just “high spirited” like many boys and without any sort of intervention everything will be fine. He disagrees with medication and refused to give it to him. After two years of school he finally started helping me work with our son, but only completes half the assigned homework and then says “I forgot ” when I ask him about the rest of the homework. This is the same thing he gets mad at our son for saying. If it wasn’t for the fact that my friends and family are 2500km away in ontario(I moved to Nova Scotia for him) this probably wouldn’t be an issue because I probably would have left by now. He is what I would term passive aggressive. He doesn’t come right out and say I can’t do things but make things a bit miserable when I do something he doesn’t like.
As far as my son goes, I am a little bit frustrated. I had an appointment with a new pediatrician yesterday. I thought that I would get somewhere. J has been on concerta since the fall. There has been a slight improvement at school, he is able to better stay on task but still cannot stay in his seat and pay attention. I asked if a different dose or different med. altogether would benefit. I believe that this is like many conditions requiring meds. the same thing doesn’t work for everbody. I was told to just leave it as is. I also mentioned the possibility of an allergy causing some of these problems, like alot of medical proffessionals she said food isn’t a factor in behavior. So I’m told to leave as is. I have trouble doing this since my son isn’t succeeding in school and I can’t just stand by and watch him keep getting passed on in school when he doesn’t know whats going on. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not expecting A’s I would just like to see a passing grade. I’m ready to pull my hair out or maybe just beat my head against a wall since I feel it would be just as productive.
Tammie[/quote][/code][/list][/list][/url]

I know what you mean. They just don’t seem to care that much sometimes. Again, that’s why we homeschooled. But don’t assume that just because he is getting low grades that it means he isn’t learning anything. A lot of people don’t know this, but there is 40 years of research supporting the fact that there is no long-term academic or social benefit to using stimulants overall. I think the stimulants may make them more compliant or agreeable to doing what they are asked, and may help them become more organized and remember to hand in their work, but it’s entirely possible that the work he is being asked to do is irrelevant to him. Maybe he’s really smart and figures it out in 5 minutes, and is then asked to practice for weeks on end doing something he already knows. I remember having to do that - it was totally pointless, but I was a “good kid” and did as I was told, so I got good grades, even though the whole process was frustrating and depressing as heck for me. I seriously doubt I learned anything from doing hundreds of “subtraction with borrowing” problems when I fully understood the principles involved the first day it was taught. Much of school is a waste of time, and smart kids know this instinctively. Some of us are able to suppress our disgust and boredom better than others, that’s about it.

As for the home scene, that sounds VERY stressful! Your husband sounds very unsupportive, to say the least. I don’t know if there is any way to get him invested in a positive reinforcement program, but if he isn’t, you may just have to start one yourself. He will not suddenly start behaving better by doing nothing, and obviously his idea of what to do has been ineffective.

If it’s so bad that you have considered leaving, the stress is probably obvious to your son and may be making his behavior worse. You might want to think about your options on that score as well. Sometimes a clean start can solve a lot of problems. Not that I’m telling you what to do, but I know how bad these situations can be, and I feel for you having to manage it. I’m just suggesting you consider all of your available options before you decide what to do.

My sympathies - hang in there!

–- Steve

For the issue of learning academics, try to get a good outside tutor or learn to tutor yourself —not just putting a bandaid on the homework issue, but reteaching the fundamentals. This will do the most good of anything you can do.

As far as medication and/or allergies, you may have to keep looking for a doctor who knows what he is talking about. It can take time and effort but keep at it. Your university hospitals can be a better place to look. Nova Scotia is not that big and you can get there in a day, once you find the right people to see. Use the telephone, research the internet for clinics, and/or get referrals from a good generalist that you trust.

As far as passive-aggressive behaviour, I’ve had to deal with it; there is no easy answer or solution. Obviously what you have been doing isn’t working, so you can decide whether you want to accept that you aren’t getting any help in that department and take care of things yourself; or whether you want to face down the conflict and change your whole life situation one way or another. Think hard what the pros and cons are and use your support networks of family or church or community etc.

Thank you for your input. I do hope to find a tutor for J at least over the summer. I’m in a very small village of a few hundred people, money is tight, and my husband and I share one car for both of our jobs. I’d like to find someone with a little expertise in this area, not just the teenager up the road. Any suggestions where I might start looking?

Believe me my thoughts on my family life have been going around in circles for over a year now. I realize that its a decision I have to make on my own, but it’s a scary one. I don’t know if I could make it on my own with three kids. I guess only time will tell.

I know this has gotten quite off the original topic here but I appreciate it nonetheless. Thanks again TAMMIE

For tutors in small towns, try retired teachers; in summer, moonlighting teachers (IF they know research-based methods, not more of the same that is failing in the schools), minister’s wives who are often well-educated with little formal work. The local librarian may be able to point you to people.