OT but funny

Des,
Did you take the time to clearly explain to her why she wouldn’t get it until the end of the program?

I don’t think it is necessary for people (including children) to always have a reason why they can’t have something— or to assume that they should get anything for nothing. I did tell her she would have one at the end, and I really think it is enough. Gosh, shouldn’t parents and teachers be able to say “no” without going into a ten minute recital as to why??
(explains why there are so many tantrums at the supermarket.) Actually the other kids quite easily accepted this, so I dont’ think it is unreasonable (even the kid who told me that his mom would give him something if he asked enough times was quite happy to know he would get one at the end). No one else needed to be told “clearly” why.

In fact, the only reason is financial. I am given a budget of X, if I go over budget it comes out of my pocket (which it already has). I don’t think this is so easy to explain to kids, esp if they come from families with lots of money for everything (which many of these kids do).

Kids can’t just have everythign they ask for. That’s panhandling. :-)
Those are defined limits. Kids handle limits, and kids who don’t are difficult and whiny. Do you get everything you want?
Give me a break! (hey Victoria where are you?)

—des

Hi Des,
I was considering that perhaps the child is on the autistic spectrum?
Yet, on re-reading, the ‘spoilt child syndrome’ seems more relevant.
Where the parents may be the basis of the problem?
Who have abdicated their responsibility, and passed it onto Teachers?
Though how are Teachers to deal with this, when the child recieves contradictory messages from the Parents?

Des, I saw this one, but thought I’d leave it to you.

Yes, it is vital that kids learn to delay gratification. As parents and teachers, our responsibility is to grow these kids up. People who can’t delay gratification are in big, big trouble when they get out of the nursery; huge social trouble and often legal trouble, sometimes life-threatening trouble (you cannot take anything or anybody you want, and you cannot take what you want by force; the older and stronger you get, the worse it is.) It is very unfortunate that the nursery has been extended to middle and even high school; after eight or worse twelve years of being pandered to, it is even harder to face the limits of the real world.

No, you cannot explain every reason for every action every minute of every day. There are other things to do in life besides justifying yourself. It is boring for all concerned and also a sign of disrespect to be constantly demanded for jsutification of every decision and every action.

I naturally assume that, as a responsible teacher and adult, Des had explained the rules at the start. If someone, child or parent, wants to talk about rules, the time is after the class, not interrupting. I’ve been there, done that, with some prime manipulators who made sure that no actual teaching or learning ever happened in any of their classes. If a rule was given they demanded explanation; if they didn’t like the explanation they argued; if the teacher told them the decision was made they became very angry and disrupted the class, and went to the administration/parents and got more complaints back to the class to start the next round. The people I am describing range in age from six to twenty-five, the older ones being worse. A responsible teacher won’t let that game be played.

If the child is ADHD or autistic, all the more reason to *teach* appropriate behaviour. Now is the time, when the child is young, in a summer class in a small group. If you wait until he is six feet tall and a high school dropout it is much too late. I have a young relative in exactly this situation, bright and hyper like all my family, unfortunately in a system where “no” was a dirty word; at six-four and sixteen years old and never been controlled in his life *then* they said no and kicked him out of school, one more brilliant dropout. Would have been nice if they’d taught the real rules when he was young enough to get back on track and small enough to control, wouldn’t it?

Yes, you have to teach the appropriate behaviour – and modelling how a class should be run is the first step, not allowing it to be undermined by game-playing. The particular kid des mentioned knew exactly what he was doing (I know a lot of these.) If a kid honestly doesn’t know what is appropriate and what isn’t, individual help is a good idea, but not letting the argument take over the class.

There are some special needs kids in this program (though I don’t believe she is one of them!), but this is a SHORT term session for regular grade school kids. The child is definitely NOT autistic or ADHD or anything else. I have a very short time with these kids and no time to teach them manners or behavior. These are young kids, going into first and second grade (she’s going into second). I cannot really work on behavior under the short term, but at least she will get one adult that isn’t folding for her. Might be good for her.

I did explain the rules, but it did not occur to me that one kid would actually ask for (demand) something we were playing with.
I think that is quite an assumption, imo. In fact this particular kid does “claim everything” as “hers”. And I do have to continuously say that such and such is not theirs. I have worked with kids before and hadn’t run into this as I tend to have worked with lower income kids. Next session I will make a point of telling them that the things we work with are not “theirs”, but in fact, most kids do know this already. I’m not sure that would have done any good in this case as I think she thinks everything IS her’s. It’s hard to change that mindset. I’m sure she is EXACTLY like the kids you have, as she isn’t the only one.

(I did another thing and got a similar reaction. I gave a couple small treats to the kids. Everyone was happy enough with this. She quickly pulled hers into many pieces and stated to me that “mine are all broken up”. (Logically I’d give her more. Of course I didn’t.)

—des

You might want to give her a little extra of the old fashioned praise & attention… just to try to break the cycle. Is there something she does well? Some chance for her to make a positive connection between *her* efforts and something good?
I always try to tie the “explanation why” part to being on “student time.” Every once in a while one of ‘em *does* want to know why and will hang around afterward to find out.

Well Sue there isn’t a great deal of time. This is just a summer program and I have her for one hour a day for three weeks (almost over). I never thought of getting serious comments, but thought it was funny in a sort of sad way, perhaps. I’m not really going to change behavior in that amount of time. She has improved a bit though (at least for me) and will cut out sulking pretty quickly, now that she knows that it doesn’t really work. She is good at lots, actually a nice kid and pretty smart. (This one group has quite a number of little artists, and she is one. Maybe a tempremental artistic type. :-))

—des

Well Sue there isn’t a great deal of time. This is just a summer program and I have her for one hour a day for three weeks (almost over). I never thought of getting serious comments, but thought it was funny in a sort of sad way, perhaps. I’m not really going to change behavior in that amount of time. She has improved a bit though (at least for me) and will cut out sulking pretty quickly, now that she knows that it doesn’t really work. She is good at lots, actually a nice kid and pretty smart. (This one group has quite a number of little artists, and she is one. Maybe a tempremental artistic type. :-))

—des