alternatives to meds?

We got a clear improvement in focus with a program called Interactive Metronome. We were at wits end and ready to try medication and afterwards his teachers told me he was like a different kid.

To be honest, I still see the ADD but now it is manageable (so far anyway). He is 12 and did the program when he was 9.

Lots of kids with ADHD have motor issues and IM works on that. I know other children who have not seen focus improvements after doing IM. I personally think ADHD is more a collection of symptoms than anything else that has numerous causes and so it is difficult to be definitive about what works. Still, if you look on IM’s web site there is controlled research supporting improvement in focus.

Beth

I have been doing some research on essential fatty acids - particularly a product called Efalex. Haven’t tried it yet with my son. He still takes Concerta which seems to help him quite a bit.

Sonya

We used intensive behavior management programs to great success, but we pretty much had to develop them on our own - there is not much support through insurance for this kind of intervention.

The other thing we did which was vitally imporant to our success is that we kept our kids out of standard elementary school classrooms. I had researched the issue prior to my oldest starting school, and found that “ADHD” kids are virtually indistinguishable from “normal” kids in an open classroom setting where they are allowed some level of control of their time ane of what they are doing at a particular time. We used alternative schools with an open format, and also homeschooled for 4 years. We even helped create a public charter school for our youngest so he could have an appropriate setting (where he is attending as we speak).

My oldest asked to go back to a regular school in 6th grade. He did very well academically, and no one ever said he was “ADHD.” He had some social challenges, but eventually figured that out as well. No medication, ever. He is now 21 and working a very responsible job and getting rave reviews. He has to be disciplined and organized and respectful to his coworkers and even has had to improve his handwriting! But he is doing great there. I really think avoiding the standard elementary classroom was just as important as the behavior programs. It took years to help him develop the necessary skills to survive in regular school, but as you can see, he did develop them. I encourage you to look into these options. I would also be happy to help with behavior management suggestions if you want to share some details of what the problem areas are.

Good luck!

i found this site to be very resourceful and the moderator to be a research queen!!

http://millermom.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=Alternative

my daughter takes a range of supplements.. at minimum they are making her much healthier :D

good luck!!!

My son was referred to a pediatric neurologist, who ordered an MRI and EEG. He also deals with children with ADD/ADHD. You might want to see if your ped or family physician will refer you to one if you want to be sure to rule out anything neurological causing your son’s difficulties.

Also, I’ve heard the Omegas are wonderful for concentration and many parents are giving them to their kids for ADD/ADHD. Vitamin World sells a supplement that comes in an orange paste and my daughter, the queen of “gross” takes it without any problems. I don’t think it’s a miracle cure, but I do think it helps.

landonsmom:

“Do I need to tell the doctor what to do and stay on his back until he does what I want him to do?”

First, your son’s collection of symptoms don’t amount to a life-threatening condition, right? Good. So, why do you think you need the guy in the white coat so urgently? “Disorder” may be filed away with “syndrome” and other euphemisms for “I don’t have a clue what this is, what causes it or what is the best course of treatment, let alone a cure for it.” Not very inspiring, given you’re supposed to pay the guy on the way out.

Family doctors are notoriously very busy people. They are jacks of all trades when it comes to illnesses and physical conditions. They just don’t have time to spend investigating the myriad possibilities surrounding why Johnny’s jumping about and won’t apply himself uniformly to set tasks. So, he does what he can - he prescribes an unproven pill.

You, however, have a considerably greater interest in tour son’s well-being. You’re looking for meaning behind the capital letters that pigeonhole your flesh and blood. You, then, are the person indicated to carry out this research (as you appear to have accepted partially). So, what are we going to do with old sawbones and his pills and head-scratching? Won’t he get in the way of the research? Won’t, perhaps, the pills skew the tests you’ll be carrying out?

First, do no harm. Get your son’s head clear so you can make an honest evaluation of where he’s at and what it is he’s doing “wrong”. Make a list of “things he has to do” and rate him from 0 = can’t or won’t ever do that, to 10 = “just like any other boy”.

Work out if the “problem” is really that bad. I mean, “that bad” according to “is he happy” not “will he work for NASA”. Jobs and qualifications aren’t the end of the world, as everybody reading this will no dount honestly attest. What matters, in the end, is: “Did I have any kind of happy childhood?” Obviously, the question: “Did the teacher make an easy buck today?”, doesn’t even come into it. Let [b]her [/b]get pills from the doctor. Get off the establishment merry-go-round. Make your own rules for your own family. Don’t let anyone else dictate your son’s personality or energy level. If they want to help, they can start by changing the educational system to have happiness and basic living skills as a goal and not money-making potential.

landonsmom:
“In the meantime, does anyone know of a way to improve focus without using meds? I have heard that coffee or Mtn. Dew help some. Anyone tried this? What about bee pollen? Omega 3? Vit B complex?”

When do [b]you [/b]have trouble concentrating (when you’re otherwise rested and alert)? When it’s boring, right? When someone is perhaps droning on, not at your preferred pace, in a style that conflicts with your personal learning style. Educational authorities and men in white coats and psychologists have known for years that individuals have different learning styles. However, it’s easier to zap the kinetic learners, etc., and label them “broken”, than cater to them.

Get involved in your son’s lesson programs. Find out how much of it involves movement and use of imagination and creative thinking - and how much is simply rote learning and dictated auditory-learner-biased blah blah blah.

http://interactive.snm.org/index.cfm?PageID=1053&RPID=58

As an example read this random web page (from a search for “kinetic learner”) - esp Tip #2. Does that sound similar to the arrangements made at your child’s school? How come adult attendees at educational meetings require these considerations and your child doesn’t?

Get in there and fight for a better school system. Don’t just sit back and accept a doctor’s “don’t know” disorder pill and a teacher’s lack of skill. Take back control and COMPLAIN!!

There’s nothing wrong with your son and a class trip to the great outdoors would show off his system-muffled learning abilities to the full. All of a sudden, the little A-student who can’t run and can’t invent and can’t draw and is afraid to get her hands dirty will be the one being looked at askance. And that would be as great a crime as is being perpetrated against your son today.

Accept no labels. Laugh at the prophets of doom. Expect 100% integration and 100% acceptable outcome in adulthood. Never permit a person who has what amounts to a passing interest in your child’s welfare (doctor, teacher) to generalize and make an easy buck for themselves at your child’s expense. Protect your child.

You and I may agree or disagree with the some or all of the article at the link below, but it offers insight into how your child might be feeling and how “being different” is possibly not the curse it’s generally held to be. The author called his condition “ADD” in 1992, I call it “Vive La diference!” It’s tough on them, but it’s a blessing for the rest of us. Where would the world be without them?

What’s It Like To Have ADD?
by Edward M. Hallowell, M.D.

(Excerpt)

[i]….Which is to say there is a positive side to all this. Usually the positive doesn’t get mentioned when people speak about ADD because there is a natural tendency to focus on what goes wrong, or at least on what has to be somehow controlled. But often once the ADD has been diagnosed, and the child or the adult, with the help of teachers and parents or spouses, friends, and colleagues, has learned how to cope with it, an untapped realm of the brain swims into view. Suddenly the radio station is tuned in, the windshield is clear, the sand storm has died down. And the child or adult, who had been such a problem, such a nudge, such a general pain in the neck to himself and everybody else, that person starts doing things he’d never been able to do before. He surprises everyone around him, and he surprises himself. I use the male pronoun, but it could just as easily be she, as we are seeing more and more ADD among females as we are looking for it.

Often these people are highly imaginative and intuitive. They have a “feel” for things, a way of seeing right into the heart of matters while others have to reason their way along methodically. This is the person who can’t explain how he thought of the solution, or where the idea for the story came from, or why suddenly he produced such a painting, or how he knew the short cut to the answer, but all he can say is he just knew it, he could feel it. This is the man or woman who makes million dollar deals in a catnap and pulls them off the next day. This is the child who, having been reprimanded for blurting something out, is then praised for having blurted out something brilliant. These are the people who learn and know and do and go by touch and feel…[/i]

http://www.pcnet.com/~dodge/ADD/like.html

Thanks to everyone for all the great replies.

Steve, I read an old post of yours a couple of weeks ago and have been wanting to contact you for advice. My son’s biggest problems have to do with homework and attitude. Homework: he usually forgets most of it and what he does bring home, he doesn’t want to do it……it’s like pulling teeth just to get him started…he does refuse to do it, but he just wanders around aimlessly looking for pencils, paper, etc…..but forgets what he’s doing and ends up doing something else….once he finally sits down to do it, it seems like he just doesn’t want to put any effort into it. He will just guess at answers instead of looking up the correct answer in the book. In math, he will start out working the problems correctly. About halfway through the assignment, he just starts writing numbers down to make it look like it’s finished. I don’t know why he does this when he KNOWS I’m going to check it. It’s that way with everything. For about the first 30-45 minutes he does okay, but then after that, it’s like his brain shuts down and his motivation does too. Unfortunately, since he is so slow at getting the work done, it takes about 3 hours a night to get the homework done…..so the last 2 hours or so are spent yelling and arguing and that’s when his mouth starts running and all those disrespectful comments come out…….then there’s more arguing and then everybody goes to bed angry.
I really hate homework. It’s just evil. I really do not think he learns much from it either. I’m sure most kids learn the material best by writing things down. Well, I don’t think he does. He is left-handed, ADHD…his handwriting is TERRIBLE…..and usually illegible (i’m used to it so most of the time I can decipher it though). If most of his mental energy is being used for the writing process itself, how can he be learning all that much? One thing I do know. Grounding does no good whatsoever. It seems like he just gets used to not being able to do much of anything and is okay with that after a couple of days

Brian, I agree with you. I don’t trust doctors at all and it is true that my son’s symptoms do not seem life threatening. I would like to rule out some things though…..like thyroid problems and hypoglycemia (there is a family history of both of those conditions). I would also like for him to have a CT scan. He has these HUGE pupils and that has always bothered me. I’m sure it’s probably just because that’s the way he is. I would like to have a doctor take my concerns seriously though. I thought ADHD was what you call it if it’s NOT any of those other things. My son really isn’t all that hyper if you ask me. He’s mostly inattentive. Maybe a little hyper, but I don’t know. He’s the only boy child in the whole family (well, until my stepson came along, but he’s not so “normal” either) so I don’t know how a “normal” 11 year old boy is supposed to act.
I also agree that it’s not fair that he gets labeled as abnormal because he is not like most other kids as far as his learning style and I get so mad at his teachers with their nitpicking, but I am afraid of being one of those parents who blame everything on everybody except their child. I don’t want to come across as one of those people who don’t believe their child could ever do anything wrong. But I don’t think my son should be sent to Saturday detention because he forgot to do some homework assignments. If it would make him more likely to remember it next time, I might think differently about it. But I know he didn’t forget them on purpose and that punishing him for it is not going to solve the problem. The purpose of discipline is to end a certain undesirable behavior and to encourage more desirable behaviors. It’s totally useless if it doesn’t work. Then it just becomes torture. And he is used to it. I think that is part of the reason he doesn’t try as much anymore. He has tried and he is still not good enough for his teachers and he gets punished anyways so why even try. He gets the same outcome whether he tries or he doesn’t. And he is such a brilliant child. In my opinion, the public school system has destroyed his mind instead of enriching it. I’ve heard the phrase “dumbing down” used on this board somewhere and that is exactly what I feel they have done to my son. The grades they give him…and punishments….the critical comments…..all the nitpicking…..have made him believe that he is dumb…..and I think sometimes kids will become what they are made to believe they are. Not that I believe he is dumb. I just believe that he has accepted that he is dumb and he goes through life acting the part that has been assigned to him.
Oh, it is so hard to explain all of the feelings and thoughts and opinions I have on all this, but I will never think of school the same way again.

You say ask myself, “is he happy”. He is not happy. He is miserable. But I think that’s because he feels so abnormal. so subhuman.

I just wish I could figure out a way for his brilliant mind to shine.

I’ve considered homeschooling, but I’m just too scared to take that leap. I am afraid I would not be able to make him do anything or learn anything. I’m afraid it would turn into a daily free for all. Plus I worry about isolating him. I don’t know when or where he would socialize.

Ugh….I don’t even know what all I’ve said now (it runs in the family… :o)

So I’ll just end abruptly.
But thanks again for all the replies.

Suzie

Suzie,

First, in my view, you’re miles ahead of most of the parents I’ve read here. You at least are looking hard at what is actually taking place and trying to make sense of it. A lot of people listen to everyone else’s (doctor, teacher) POV and then try to fit the circumstances to their “diagnosis” and recipe for “cure”.

Neither I, nor anyone else knows your son’s circumstances better than you do. That’s the first thing you have to come to terms with. YOU’RE far and away the expert on your son and his “problems”. If anyone’s going to find the right answer, it’ll be you. The rest are just guessing from a position of “having to do it because that’s what they get paid for”. People, in jobs, generally take the path of least resistance (and are praised for their efficiency); they go with what’s comfortable. Hardly anyone is interested in individuals. They are general problem-solvers on a time limit. They have to come up with a result and they have to do it quickly. Being correct is of secondary importance. That’s why all the sage and bad-tempered “advice” always comes with zero guarantees. Your son is a “problem” for them - not a “brilliant child”.

So, what can you do?

1. Medical research. Last I heard doctors like money. Find one who will take money to do the tests you consider necessary to eliminate possible causes. If you want YOUR doctor to do it - march in, get your mom claws out, and DEMAND he does it. When you were a baby, he was a baby. He’s not important beyond providing a good medical service. If he comes up with a cure for something, we can all venerate him, until then, he’s just a guy selling an expensive service. Fight him for your child’s rights to medical treatment.

2. Education. Teachers are like a million a penny. They’re not even teachers in the old sense, most of them. They have zero vocation. They don’t care. It’s just a job. However, they are public servants who get paid by you. Lay down the law. Don’t accept shoddy, unimaginative service. Detention is obviously not indicated in your son’s case. He sounds to have an attention deficit alright - a deficit of attention paid to him by the school system. In this world, nobody is going to give you even what you deserve by law - without a fight. I would suggest that you refuse to bring your son in on the Saturday, stating that you’ll take the person resposible to the highest educational board there is. Even if you lose, what are they going to do, refuse to serve your son afterwards? Teachers are bullies (remember?). Bullies must be confronted. Lazy workers must also be brought to task. I’ve found it helpful to refuse homework that clearly hasn’t been taught in class. Homework is for reinforcement. If the student can’t do the work in class, how can he be expected to do it at home - unless you’re supposed to do the teacher’s job for her. Fight for your child’s right to an education.

My son was labelled up and down the “I don’t have a clue what that is” spectrum. He started out in special schools (for the physically and mentally handicapped) and is now doing well in regular 2nd grade of High school at 15 (he’s behind due to the lost years but has never repeated a grade since beginning). He was on Ritalin for a month total until we discovered what that was and what it does. He’s where he is because he gets love and encouragement and protection from a system that would crush and reject him if it could. You may have noticed that society has zero time for those who are “different”. Now, he still skips around sometimes and makes some weird noises. It doesn’t matter, people expect that of Tim Burton-style artists. He’s precociously excentric, that’s all.

Your son can probably feel (if not actually see and hear directly) what his school teachers think of him. Who knows what they say when nobody is around. Smiley faces to you can be pure evil when bullying opportunities present themselves. My son has been locked in closets and punched by special ed teachers (always denied, but my son doesn’t lie about things like that. He’s only ever learned to lie to escape punishment, not to invent stories in order to hurt others).

Don’t be fooled into being made to feel the guilty party. If he’s in regular school it’s because he’s teachable. If he’s not being taught, who’s fault is that? REALLY listen to what his teacher says about him. Dissect it. Give them enough rope. Encourage them to be candid. Join in, if it’ll get them to open up. And, more importantly, really listen to what your son says about school. You have to find out what’s really going on there. Why your son devotes more energy to covering his tracks and scamming than just learning the stuff. There’s a reason for things. Use his classmates, use a tape recorder, but find out what’s going on. Nobody has a right to use their position to abuse another - least of all a defenseless child.

Perhaps, they’re right. Perhaps they’re only interested in your son’s well-being when they order Saturday detention (what’s your gut telling you?) as a punishment, instead of finding a more imaginative teaching method. Perhaps your son is to blame for everything. Use every psychological trick you can think of to FIND OUT - “You know son, when I was little, my teacher used to point at me and call me dumbo, what do you think of that?” Just be patient and let him tell you, in his own words, when he’s ready. And when he tells you, do something about it. They go, or you go - someplace else. Love at home is better than abuse at school - esp if the teaching level CAN’T be lower.

Protect your child. Hardly anyone else gives a hoot about him or his happiness or his future.

Meanwhile, introduce him to new things. Music lessons, sports, arts, everything that’s within your power. He has a special gift for something - EVERYBODY has. Find out what that is and facilitate and encourage it. When he discovers it, he’ll be a different boy.

http://articles.health.msn.com/id/100110773

An article excerpted from The Gift of ADHD by Lara Honos-Webb Ph.D.

[i]…Typical modes of assessment in the academic world involve being able to repeat small details of abstract processes. This is the most difficult way of learning for children with ADHD. There are few courses of study in the educational system that reward the startling gifts your child has to offer. The good news is that if [b]your child can emerge unscathed from his education[/b], he can find his niche in the real world that will reward him highly for his ardent curiosity, creativity, and ability to solve problems in innovative ways.[/i] {emphasis mine}

[i]…To think daringly original thoughts and to create new ideas or perspectives requires impulsiveness. Impulsiveness is the urge to do things or think things that are new and daring, that fall outside the boring grind of the everyday humdrum. Impulsiveness is the urge to forge ahead into new areas of thought and includes a tendency to be bored with whatever everyone else is doing or thinking. It is a necessary ingredient for forging new ground in any area of study or thought.[/i]

[i]…Distractibility is the tendency to shift one’s attention to other arenas. It is the opposite of a horse with blinders plodding along carefully in the path determined by his master. In contrast, people who are distractible will pay attention to thoughts, feelings, or events in the environment that seem to call out to them. They cannot focus because they are enchanted with other aspects of their experience. This is also an essential aspect of creativity, which often manifests in the mixing together of ideas from different domains that seem separate or irrelevant to each other.[/i]

[i]…Your child is truly gifted to have been given the natural ability to engage in reverie or imaginative thought, to be bold and daring in wanting to bring his imagination into the world, and to be sensitive to inspiration from his thoughts, emotions, or the outside world. In spite of these gifts, he may struggle in school. This is because, in the early years, educational systems focus on a “regurgitation” model. Children are expected to focus attentively, take in material presented in a rigid format, and “regurgitate” it back to the teacher to prove they were listening attentively. This style of learning is contrary to the great gifts your child has been given.[/i] {more…}

http://articles.health.msn.com/id/100110773

I appreciate the article, Brian. This kind of posting is always welcome and refreshing in that it provides a new perspective without making anyone feel “wrong.”

Steve,

Thanks so much for the prettified attempt at censorship. In stating that “this type of posting is always welcome and refreshing” you obviously feel qualified to dictate what isn’t welcome and refreshing. You haven’t convinced me that I should seek your approval for what I write.

You state also that it doesn’t make “anyone feel wrong”. I have to point out that that doesn’t make any sense in the real world. In the real world, a person either feels something or doesn’t, based on a lifetime of unique personal experience, colored by self-esteem and other issues. Nobody can make anyone else feel anything emotionally that they are not already conditioned to feel. Whether they feel “wrong” or not, is not my concern and is beyond my control. However, in making your statement, you add to your attempts to censor anything that YOU consider would make someone so feel (or, more accurately, make YOU so feel).

I believe that your thinly-veiled and prettily-worded attempts to control what is and what is not posted here are objectionable.

Someone told me about FlaxSeed Oil. I’ve never tried it. We are on Adderall for my son and it has worked great for him.

Look, I really don’t
want to wax philosophic,
but I will say that if you’re alive,
you got to flap your arms and legs,
you got to jump around a lot,
you got to make a lot of noise,
because life is the very opposite of death.
And therefore, as I see it,
if you’re quiet, you’re not living.
You’ve got to be noisy,
or at least your thoughts should
be noisy and colorful and lively.

MEL BROOKS

“One day my principal took me out of class and said to me, ‘I know you think you’re special because you can draw, but let me tell you something: artists are a-dime-a-dozen. You will never make a living as an artist!’ Those words haunted me for many years. How delightful it was to prove him wrong.” — Dav Pilkey (who was diagnosed as a child with ADD and severe hyperactivity disorder and who has written and/or illustrated 26 children’s books, including the 14 million-selling “Captain Underpants” series).

Read his short bio here:

http://www.pilkey.com/adv-text.php

or better here (cartoon version):

http://www.pilkey.com/adventure1.php

But be sure to read the moral here:

http://www.pilkey.com/adventure5.php

Imaginative people, wouldn’t life be boring without them?

Dav Pilkey is the best! Clearly an “ADHD” sufferer who made good despite the dire predictions of his teachers. Anyone who hasn’t read these stories should give them a look - he is a riot!

The Dav Pilkey info is awesome. My son has a couple of those Captain Underpants books and he loves them. He actually read them…….on his own. I can’t wait to show him the cartoon version of “Dav’s Adventures”.

Oh, and report cards are out. I’m so proud, I just have to say……NO F’s!!!! woohoo!!!

Has anyone ever read Stopping ADHD or used the exercise program with any success? I ordered the book. The concept seems a little far-fetched, but I ordered it anyways. Some people had written reviews of the book and everyone who reviewed it gave it 5 stars and had experienced some success with it. I figure it’s worth a try. The description of symptoms of an immature symmetric tonic neck reflex fit my son perfectly and he was an early independent walker (9 months old) with hardly any crawling time. I still find it hard to believe that 8 months of exercise will eliminate his focusing problems. Guess we’ll see.

Yesterday was his first day back at school after fall break and it was the same old crap. He didn’t bring all his homework home and he didn’t finish what he did bring home after working on it for 3 hours. In 3 hours he did 8 vocabulary words and less than half of a spelling assignment. BUT…..the vocabulary thing is stupid if you ask me. He has to do them on index cards (he does NOT keep up with index cards very well) and he has to draw lines to divide the card into quadrants…..one for the word, one for the definition, one for the page number where he found the definition and one for a picture…..he has to draw a picture of whatever the word is…..stupid……great if you like to draw and you’re good at it, but he doesn’t and he’s not. And how do you draw “cyclic behavior” anyways? That is the kind of jumbled up multi-multi step crap that he has so much trouble with. It took him nearly two hours to do 8 of them and he only got the picture drawn on one.
I am at my wits end. Drawing pictures is NOT going to help my son learn. He doesn’t like to draw. He is not good at drawing. All it does is cost a heckuva lot of time and mental energy trying to come up with some kind of way to DRAW a picture of “social behavior” and “cyclic behavior” and “aggressive behavior”, not to mention affecting his self esteem once again……”i’m so dumb, i can’t even figure out a what to draw.”

I swear…..home schooling keeps looking better and better. Sometimes I just think it would be easier than trying to make the teachers change things to help him learn better. There is way too much they would need to change for my son to have a chance to succeed in their school.

AAANNNNDDD……
They sent out this note to all the parents yesterday about their new policy for homework assignments.
Honestly, it kind of ticked me off……well not kind of….

“One of our main concerns in the intermediate grades is the importance of completing assignments on time. Many of our students have proven their responsibility by completing homework efficiently. However, some students are consistantly not completing assignments on time.”

then at the end….they gotta sock it to them again……

“We are trying to emphasize to our students the importance of being a responsible and successful learner. Many of our students are working very hard, and we are extremely proud of them.”

Yeah…….as I read this again…….I feel even more angry than the first time I read it.

In other words…….those students who have failed to complete their assignments on time are not working hard and they are not proud of those students.
Okay……my son didn’t get much accomplished in the 3 hours he worked on homework last night, but he did work for THREE HOURS. To me, that’s working hard. He sat at the table for 3 hours….that in itself is quite an accomplishment. I guess he spent half the time in Lala land, but……THREE HOURS. How many of those responsible kids that they are all so proud of spent THREE HOURS working on homework last night?
AAAGGGGHHHHHHH.
And besides that, if they are having so much trouble with so many of these irresponsible students not completing homework assignments on time, then maybe they should consider the possibility that there is something that THEY should change instead of expecting all these terrible kids to suddenly be different. I may be naive, but I really find it hard to believe that all these kids are just being lazy. I kinda have a strong feeling that these “problem” kids are not failing to complete all their assignments on purpose. I have a feeling that most of them would get their assignments done on time without the threat of punishment if they could. I guess we will see. If they still have the same problems with kids not getting their assignments completed on time even with their new policy and punishments, maybe they will change something that they are doing. HA!! Okay, I’m dreaming, I know.

Okay. I better get off here because I’m turning this into a vent session.

censored?
it wasn’t even a bad word.
can i write doo doo instead of the c word?

Not to mention that there is no research to suggest that completing more homework leads to more learning. It seems they are focusing their attention more on compliance than acutal learning - the industrial production model of education! It’s actually interesting if you look back at the early history of compulsory education - there are some pretty frank documents regarding the purpose of compulsory education, and having well-informed and critically thinking citizens was not the primary motivation. They were actually worried about the influx of immigrants and the newly freed black slaves undermining the existing power structure. So schools were to teach “good citizenship”, which pretty much meant learning to be a good factory worker at that particular time. Look at school buildings built before say 1930 or so - notice that they are all brick, square-sided buildings with a smokestack at one end? Kind of look like factories, don’t they? How about the bells indicating a change in class? Kind of suggests the noon whistle…

We homeschooled for about 4 years with one child and two years with the other two, and otherwise used alternative schools all through elementary. It was worth it! Our kids are looking pretty healthy and as well educated as anyone else. The only real drawback was that they never developed very good handwriting, but if that’s the price for maintaining their excitement about learning, I’m happy to pay it!

Steve, I think you’re exactly right. Whether or not he actually learns seems to be beside the point.

I don’t know what to do. Second day back and already a call from the teacher. She can’t get my son to do anything. Not that he is refusing. He is just not really getting much of anything done with the time she is giving them in class to do their assignments. I don’t know what to tell her.

what a nightmare.

What is an alternative school? Where would I find something like that? Are they expensive?

Further to Steve’s comments.

http://www.sntp.net/education/school_state_3.htm

Taken from Sheldon Richman’s book, Separating School & State: How To Liberate American Families

[b]School as Propagandist[/b]

…We may break down the reasons into two broad categories, the macro and the micro. The aim of the public schools at the macro, or social, level was the creation of a homogeneous, national, Protestant culture: the Americanization and Protestantization of the disparate groups that made up the United States. At the micro, or individual, level the aim was the creation of the Good Citizen, someone who trusted and deferred to government in all areas it claimed as its own. Obviously, the two levels are linked, because a certain culture cannot be brought about without remaking the individuals who comprise it.

Throughout history, rulers and court intellectuals have aspired to use the educational system to shape their nations. The model was set out by Plato in The Republic and was constructed most faithfully in Soviet Russia, Fascist Italy, and Nazi Germany. But one need not look only to extreme cases to find such uses of the educational system. One can see how irresistible a vehicle the schools would be to any social engineer. They represent a unique opportunity to mold future citizens early in life, to instill in them the proper reverence for the ruling culture, and to prepare them to be obedient and obeisant taxpayers and soldiers. Unsurprisingly, rulers and intellectuals jumped at the chance to make the schools a mill for the creation of Good Citizens. That motivation has been part of every effort to establish government schools…

…Importantly, American advocates of compulsory state schooling observed the Prussian system, became enamored of it, and adopted it as their model. As former teacher John Taylor Gatto writes:

[i]A small number of very passionate American ideological leaders visited Prussia in the first half of the 19th century; fell in love with the order, obedience, and efficiency of its education system; and campaigned relentlessly thereafter to bring the Prussian vision to these shores. Prussia’s ultimate goal was to unify Germany; the Americans’ was to mold hordes of immigrant Catholics to a national consensus based on a northern European cultural model. To do that, children would have to be removed from their parents and from inappropriate cultural influences.[/i]

Gatto emphasizes how the Prussian model set the standard for educational systems right up to the present. “The whole system was built on the premise that isolation from first-hand information and fragmentation of the abstract information presented by teachers would result in obedient and subordinate graduates, properly respectful of arbitrary orders,” he writes. He says the American educationists imported three major ideas from Prussia. The first was that the purpose of state schooling was not intellectual training but the conditioning of children “to obedience, subordination, and collective life.” Thus, memorization outranked thinking. Second, whole ideas were broken into fragmented “subjects” and school days were divided into fixed periods “so that self-motivation to learn would be muted by ceaseless interruptions.” Third, the state was posited as the true parent of children. All of this was done in the name of a scientific approach to education, although, Gatto says, “no body of theory exists to accurately define the way children learn, or what learning is of most worth.”

http://www.sntp.net/education/school_state_3.htm

Wow, I didn’t realize they did all that fragmentation ON PURPOSE! It always seems to me to be the most irrational part of schooling - why teach math separately from science, since you are going to use the math to do science? Why not learn to read in history class, and meanwhile learn history while you learn to read? This might make reading a tad more interesting than “Go, Spot, go! See Dick run! Run, Dick, run!”

For Landonsmom: An alternative school is simply a school that doesn’t run on the “Prussian model” described above. Usually, there is a focus on individualized learning, or there may be a particular focus, like art or Spanish immersion or athletics, and these themes are woven through the other subjects (in violation of the intentional fragmentation Brian mentioned in the Prussian model). Or they use projects and cooperative undertakings or community service as learning opportunities. There are other variations, but the basic thing that alternative schools share is the idea that there has to be a better way than the standard classroom.

In Portland, there are public schools that are alternative in focus. Not every district has them. Some states or districts also have “charter schools”, which are public schools that are not run by the district, but are chartered out to other organizations who create and run the school for a certain amount per pupil. Our boys’ school is a charter. We get only 80% of what a regular school gets per pupil, but we still are solvent and expanding every year. You might look into the laws in your area and see if charter schools are available - they are legal in about 35 states as of a couple years ago.

Private schools can be alternative schools as well, but many of them follow the standard school model. Montessouri schools are a pretty reliable option - big focus on spontaneous and individually paced learning. Waldorf schools are also popular in some places - they place a big emphasis on learning through music, art, and movement, and don’t even stress reading until kids are 9 or 10. There are other options around. It all depends on your community. One place you might start is by talking to the homeschooling community in your area (and there IS a homeschooling community in EVERY area!) When people get tired of homeschooling, they often look for alternative schools, so these people might be able to provide you with some resources, and also can talk to you about how homeschooling works for them. You might also talk to the district office and ask them about alternative schools or charter schools within the district. Often, the district employees are less touchy about alternatives than the teachers or administration of a particular school.

Hope that helps! And thanks for that bit of school history, Brian - it puts a lot of things in perspective!

– Steve

It really does seem that nobody is addressing the problem with landonsmom’s son. The principal and teachers just keep passing the buck with notes and calls complaining that Landon won’t buckle down and teach himself. Surely, if the teacher gave “assignments” in class time (in lieu of actually teaching), she would have all that assignment time to work one-on-one with Landon and try to work out why he doesn’t seem to make it from A to B in the allotted period. I wonder what she [b]is [/b]doing while the students are doing assignments and Landon is killing time? And what are they expecting will happen in the end? That Landon will somehow magically get his act together or (as it seems is the case) that landonsmom will make that happen if enough pressure is applied to her from the school? Or is this how they treat parents who refuse to drug their children; a type of water torture, the water being snide remarks and other communications, until the non-conformist gets with the program?

Would you accept the same kind of treatment from a prepaid (education is prepaid by taxes) auto mechanic? If he called you to complain that your car “just refuses to be fixed”? Or that he “can’t make it work”? What if he sent a bundle of parts and a few tools and told you to do it yourself, then complained the next day that you hadn’t done it? Even a bad workman has the decency to blame his tools and not the employer or raw materials.

Children who have been permitted a place in regular school have been pronounced teachable by the government.

Teachers are paid to teach those children.

Where parents are willing to cede their personal authority over their children to these teachers during school time, how can the blame for lack of results lie with them? And how can “can’t be done” be a reasonable teacher response to the task in hand?

The answer to the thread question “Alternative to meds” is obviously “make the teachers earn their pay”.

steve,

There’s more information on the history of schools at the link given:

http://www.sntp.net/education/school_state_3.htm

I think people ought to know why school failed them. Why they know the names of the Founding Fathers but can’t come up with effective strategies for fatherhood. Why they didn’t even choose the correct rut back in high school. Why they can’t invent. Why they have trouble imagining. Why change is so feared. Why they crave others’ approval. Why their natural condition is cap-in-hand, gullible, fearful and ready and willing to attack the next ist or ism the government spooks them with. Why they, as Bertrand Russell said, would rather die than think (too painful to crank the gears of never-used machinery). Why school is failing their other child - the one that doesn’t have a problem.

We have to smash the hallowed halls of reverse prejudice that sees stereotyped groups such as “doctors” and “teachers” receive automatic unearned respect. Each doctor and each teacher should be held in the esteem that they individually merit. They should be judged on their individual work, not on their titles. Teachers know they’re on shaky ground, hence the unions. Doctors aren’t paying huge insurance premiums for nothing (oh, that’s right Mr Bush, blame and limit the victims of their errors). Blaming the victims for the shortcomings of members of both groups is becoming the norm.

At the very least, “poisoning” should never be tolerated from members of either profession. Since it would appear that poison is what they’re peddling in the mainstream, an alternative must be sought in each case.

I don’t have a clue what to do next. I have done what I am supposed to do. I’ve had the meetings, the assessments, discussed accomodations and modifications, been promised all this help…….nothing is happening. I had told myself that I was going to give them two weeks after fall break to show me something. Now I don’t know if I should wait two weeks. Landon is already behind by 5 homework assignments that he will have to do over the weekend (in addition to his regular weekend homework) to turn in on Monday for half credit……..if he doesn’t turn it in, that’s 5 zeroes. (oh, and he will also get a “deficiency report” because you’re only allowed to get 4 “assignment alerts” a week….their new policy)

I don’t know what else to tell them to do. I have told them over and over and over again exactly what the problem areas are. They told me all this wonderful stuff they were going to do to help him with that…..but it’s not happening. They’re not doing ANYTHING! I feel like I do my part here at home. I am involved. I know exactly what his assignments are. I know what he left at school. I know what is done and what is not done. I supervise the homework, but do not hover or help too much. I check it when he is done to make sure he understands what he’s doing. If something is incorrect, I help him with that. What more can I do? His homework consumes his life….and mine too. The poor kid has no time for anything else. He is in the band, but he doesn’t have time to practice except on weekends (once his weekend homework is finished). He wants to play basketball, but I can’t sign him up for it because I know he won’t be able to make it to most of the practices because of homework. And I hate it. I know that you can’t do that to a kid. It is shoved down his throat every waking moment. I hate it and I know he hates it even more.
I loved the quote from Albert Einstein: (thanks for the link, Brian)

“One had to cram all this stuff into one’s mind, whether one liked it or not. This coercion had such a deterring effect that, after I had passed the final examination, I found the consideration of any scientific problems distasteful to me for an entire year…. It is in fact nothing short of a miracle that the modem methods of instruction have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry; for this delicate little plant, aside from stimulation, stands mainly in need of freedom; without this it goes to wrack and ruin without fail. It is a very grave mistake to think that the enjoyment of seeing and searching can be promoted by means of coercion and a sense of duty. To the contrary, I believe that it would be possible to rob even a healthy beast of prey of its voraciousness, if it were possible, with the aid of a whip, to force the beast to devour continuously, even when not hungry - especially if the food, handed out under such coercion, were to be selected accordingly.”

I looked for Montessori schools and charter schools. There are none here. There are a few christian private schools, but that’s all. Looks like my choices are either home school him or keep fighting this school to make them educate my child.

I am considering getting an advocate.

Thanks a bunch for the information, Steve. Next I am going to see if I can find out about the home schooling community here.

Brian, thanks for all the links andinformation (and for the validation and support!!)
Are you in a career field that is related to this kind of thing? I bet you could make a roomful of teachers feel as ignorant as they make Landon feel. You would probably make an excellent advocate.

That reminds me……one of his teachers said something to him Tuesday that he said he thought was funny, but it made me mad. He got sent out in the hall, once again, for not having all his homework……his teacher said “I think the hall is starting to like you, Landon.” I might just be over-sensitive, but it just seems so condescending.

Anyways, I could rant all day long…..

Thanks for listening.
Suzie

Your options:
- You can do the homework for him. I know this sounds ridiculous, and in a sane system I would recommend *most* strongly against it, but your present situation is not sane. Is he learning anything from this homework? Is it doing any good for anyone? No? OK, then it is not a worthwhile activity for him and you can lift it off his shoulders. You can have him do the problem-solving and essay-writing, which develop thinking skills, on his own, but you can take over the copying and repetition part.
- You can just quit doing the homework with him. Set a timer for half an hour to an hour as appropriate, have him work on his own for that time, and leave it. Again, he really does need to be doing problem-solving and essay writing and developing thinking skills, but leave off the copying and repetition. GO to basketball. Ask yourself how much worse it can get. He is already in as much trouble as he can be for missing homework; if you let him get his life back, how can it be worse? Sure, the people at the school will rant and rave; and you sweetly say you are waiting for all that help and where is it?
- You can homeschool. As of now it sounds like you are homeschooling anyway on top of regular school, and it isn’t doing any good because he is not in an appropriate level of work. If you put this much effort into teaching him something he could understand, it would be so much more useful. Think about it.

Some ideas from the pits of working with my own son:

If your son starts out strong, that suggests to me that he is motivated. He cannot keep it up because it requires more energy for him than other kids. If he can do homework for 45 minutes, let him do it for 45 minutes. Let him take a break then. You’d be better off with two good 45 minute sessions with an hour break than with 3 hours poorly attended to.

Sports help kids like this. It also helps give them something that they are interested in. Let him play basketball. My son does. We make sure it isn’t more than a couple days a week and he does some homework over the weekend to have enough time. But it gives him something to care about, a reason to get his homework done.

I also believe strongly that our job as parents is first and foremost to make sure our kids grow up as emotionally intact as possible. I have acted as scribe for my son many times. His handwriting has improved a lot through therapy so it isn’t as necessary now. But recently I did the typing and my son did the dictating. He had too much work that night and I helped him complete it. No, he didn’t learn as much as if he had written it all out himself but I prevented an overwhelmed child. An overwhelmed child cannot learn anyway.

The key to this is knowing when your child is doing the best he can do. It may not be the best you think he can do. And especially if you were a good student yourself, you may have to give up your ideas of what he “shouLd” do. I was a nerdy, brainy kid and having a chlild with LD/ADD has made me a much better person. I think in less black and white terms and have a much broader idea of sucess than I would have otherwise.

I have a friend who helped her LD child with homework all the way through high school. He then took three years to do two years of work at the local junior college. They worked to make him more independent. He finished at a regional college with a B average and then earned a master’s degree. He is now teaching history at the same junior college where he started.

So don’t think that helping him now, means that he won’t be independent later. School requires that kids fit a certain mold. Eventually, he will move into the world of work and he will have more choices than he does now. He will be better able to use his strengths. Think that you are just trying to get through the next few years.

If your son can do the first half of the math problems correctly, push for a reduced homework load. Obviously, doing more problems isn’t helping him. Or if that doesn’t work, do them with him when he can’t do any more. I have done this as well.

Help him figure out a system so that he turns in his homework. We use one folder for homework, regardless of class. It looks different than his other folders.

Beth

I would only add to the excellent posts above that one accomodation you can ask for is LESS WORK!!!! My oldest was extremely gifted in math, but had a teacher who made everyone do the same thing, HER WAY, and crank out endless, mechanical problems that they didn’t even need to understand how to work except to crank them through the mechanical steps she taught them. He hated this class and was FAILING, because he couldn’t do the problems “HER WAY”. The next year, I got him in with a teacher who gave him a book and some independent study goals, which he worked on at his own pace, doing only as many problems as he needed to understand before moving on to the next section. He finished two years work in about 6 months, totally on his own. And in case you think he was shortcutting, he took 10th grade math in 8th grade the next year, and got straight “A’s”. So there is no magic to doing a certain amount of work. He should do as much as necessary to understand the material, and then move on. Otherwise, it is a meaningless tunnel of drudgery that NO ONE, regardless of their “ADHD” status, would find easy to concentrate on. The fact that others can force themselves through the process and not complain, or force themselve through it more quickly, doesn’t mean it has any educational value for your son. I would ask for work reduction as an accomodation. I know it can be done, and I have seen it done very successfully. If the complain that no one else gets off this easy, remind them that this child is legally “disabled”, and they have an obligation to make accomodations. (If he is not actually GIFTED and simply in need of a faster-moving curriculum!) Not everyone has a wheelchair, either. Not everyone needs one.

It’s a crazy game to have to play, claiming “disability” so the school can do what any sensible person can see would work better. But if that’s what they need to hear, play the disability card and make it a winner. They are mistreating him for arbitrary reasons and it needs to stop.

On the other hand, why would you want your child taught by people who are so inflexible and irrational? What benefit can he be getting from their “lessons”? Homeschooling starts to look better and better…

Well, look at the superior brains that you’re up against: trying to encourage compliance with homework by denying schoolwork time! Seems they haven’t learned anything since Dav Pilkey’s time. Being sent into the hall is neither an effective punishment nor a useful corrective strategy. All it amounts to is a waste of time (and your tax money). I suppose if he’s extra bad, he gets extra summer vacation. They appear to seriously lack imagination in that school. All I can think is that it is meant to humilliate him into submission - with the prior assumption that he’s avoiding the homework on purpose. Sounds like chain gang director mentality. Sadly, that mentality in teachers and authority figures, applied to young minds, is what makes for chain gang members later. We have to be braver and not allow our children to suffer authority abuse in the name of convenience.

I’d definitely go with the basketball - at all costs - and anything else within your power that he suggests participating in. There are probably huge self-esteem issues that require that he find something he is good at ASAP. It doesn’t matter what the activity is - how “productive” it is - it’s only important that he’s either good at it or, at least, loves doing it. His self-esteem, now and for the future, appears to be the most important prize to be fought for. The rest may be learned now, later or never. It’s not really that important compared with feeling okay about oneself.

We were brainwashed into believing that it was the most important thing in life - getting ahead. All of us have since discovered that it’s not. What we have to do is apply that knowledge to our children’s lives and stop placing learning above acceptance. However, since the system doesn’t care about your child’s self-esteem (how many lesson hours are spent building that) and doesn’t want you interfering with its plans for the population (the least human grouping it can conceptualize) you have to be prepared for a fight if you stay. You have to make use of the 6 or so hours in a day you have to counteract the damage that school is doing. You may think I’m overstating the case, but have you really ever thought about what happens in school (what happened to you in school?)? You don’t live in a communist or fascist state. You don’t have to accept social conditioning for your children that you don’t agree with. The parent is king, not the government, not the doctor, not the teacher, not the “others”. If your child grows up to be a semi-functional, emotionally-stunted, unhappy, professional automaton it’ll be your fault.

landonsmom, I’d get everything from the school in writing from now on. Verbal promises are mist. Ask for a letter stating what they are willing to do. Teach your son to add, subtract, divide and multiply. To read well. To write well. To spell. To think. To ask questions. To accept himself. Encourage reading books - whether it’s about Talking Toilets or whatever - it doesn’t matter as long as it’s in sentences. That list is half the battle. The rest is fluff on a resume that can be learned anytime by anyone, given the right circumstances. Do you really want him to spend his 40 years of working life saying “I don’t know what to do, try this amphetamine”, or “I don’t know what to do, go stand in the hall”, or “I don’t know what to do, shred those documents and plead the fifth” or “I don’t know what to do, let’s blame the mayor of New Orleans”? Is that what all the learning was for? Is it worth letting them destroy your son’s life for?

He’s great at something - find out what it is and encourage it. Blow him up publicly to 1000% what he really is - if you don’t who will? If you publicly state that he’s the greatest enough times, they’ll all start to believe it - him included. Confess with your mouth, and believe it, and you’ll make it happen. You’ll have to do a lot of confessing though, to counteract all the negative statements (and belief) coming from the teachers, etc. Eventually, they, being the lost sheep they are, will come to believe it too. Then your school problems will be history.

I’ll start you off:

I was really pleased to hear that Landon is continuing to do so well in school. He really is an extremely intelligent and disciplined boy. We all know that he is going to do great things in life. And so well behaved for such an energetic, happy, outgoing lad! How does he find the time to pack all those activities into his day and still excel in academics? So well-mannered and so thoughtful, we just love him and think he’s the greatest! His teachers must be so proud and will certainly miss him when he leaves.

That’s the Landon I know.

An alternative to meds is love, hope, expectation, positive confession, belief, faith, acceptance, discipline, effort, imagination, and 100% refusal to take ANY clap from mediochre ‘authority’ figures.