low i.q.

Poor child… it is a very frustrating situation for a 12 yr old- and their lives are complicated enough!

I thin the most effective thing that you can do for her is teach her what she needs to know in way that allows her to learn it. AND THEN keep giving her very concrete unarguable evidence of her progress. “I can remember when this easy stuff (adding or whatever) was too hard for you- do you? ” Use graphs, folders of her papers, whatever it takes. Don’t be too nice- it is important to her self esteem to know that she is succeeding in a demanding class. Even if it is tailored for her it can still be demanding.

Does she have strengths that aren’t necessarily academic? Singing, athletics of some sort? If yes- see if you can encourage her to participate in chorus or a sport. Many times it is the extracurriculars that make school bearable.

Now, I had another question. Low functioning kids generally are not considered LD. LD by definition is a characterized by a performance gap- the achievement in at least one area is usually far below what is expected based on IQ. (1.5 standard deviations or 22 points roughly) So… I am guessing that this child’s standard scores in reading etc. are somewhere in the 80’s if she is about a year and a half behind and she is 12. Her cognitive (IQ) score must be about in the 80’s also? She doesn’t sound LD to me. Not that she doesn’t need assistance- I just wonder why you said she was LD. I am eternally curious about the criteria other states use to establish eligibility. So ignore my nosiness if you want:)

Robin

Kids with ld can score low on IQ tests. IQ tests aren’t perfect. If sadly she knows she scored low on a iq test, tell her that IQ tests aren’t always right. Make up things if you need to. Tell her some great minds have scored poorly on iq tests and that you so much regret that she learned about her score. Tell her you wish this was one time that the adults did keep a secret from her because you think hearing this didn’t help her to feel good about herself. Tell her let’s pretend that old iq test was never done.

You have the power to turn that child around. Any child will believe their teacher over a test.

My personal experience is with my child (now grown and a high school graduate), who consistently scored about 80 or so on IQ tests. This is considered a “low normal” IQ, not mentally retarded. However, in addition there are specific learning disabilities such as poor short term memory, slow processing speed, poor verbal processing, etc. Altogether this resulted in a situation such as the teacher described in that my child worked very hard, made consistent progress every year, but simply could not make as much progress as the average to above average child. The result was an ever widening gap despite some very good teachers, diligent parents, a hard working child and an overall good school situation. There is no question that my child is both low IQ and LD.

On a somewhat different topic, although my child did get a high school diploma, tests that report scores in grade level equivalents show that all of my child’s basic academic skills are at about 5th-6th grade level. This is functional enough to get by as an adult in society, but not to do well in typical postsecondary education programs. I feel strongly that she did earn a high school diploma, which represents her ability to function as an adult in society. A person in this situation needs a diploma to get the most basic entry level job, even when the job does not particularly involve academic skills. I worry for similar children in the future who with ever more demanding graduation requirements will not be able to earn an actual high school diploma. High school should offer the opportunity to take the most advanced courses one can handle and get ready for college if one is able, but should not demand that everyone who gets a diploma be able to do college level academics.

Robin:

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Our state uses a regression formula to decide whether there is a significant discrepancy between achievement and ability. So, the lower the IQ, the less the discrepancy needs to be, and the higher IQ, the greater discrepancy has to be. I don’t have the tables at home. However, the table does not go below a 70 FSIQ. However, in addition to the discrepancy, there must be a documented processing disorder.

Marilyn

I have that table:)- it is the Hessler regression table- we use it in my state too- but only to compare tests that are not normed the same way. So, we would regress a WISC score to compare it to the WJ achievement tests. The size of the standard deviation still has to be in excess of sixteen points if you use it that way doesn’t it? Many places don’t use regression the way you do- my state does not. The difference still needs to be 22 points between expected achievement (regressed IQ) and actual achievement.

Robin

You are absolutely right and I become equally frustrated with a system that is so insensitive to the realities of these children’s needs. That cookie cutter just becomes smaller and more elaborately detailed- and more exclusive.

Thanks for sharing about your daughter. In my state, she would not have been LD under the law- which requires that discrepency between her achievement and IQ. Those multiple processing deficits that affect how efficiently she can take in information, visually and auditorally, would require accommodations and possibly specialized instruction under a 504 plan- but wouldn’t meet the law requirements for SLD. I wish the government who gave us this law in it’s infinite wisdom- would standardize the definitions.

Robin

There is a myth that is perpetuated in some literature, often literature aimed at parents, that portrays LD youngsters as “often” or “usually” having high IQs. There is the other “myth” that portrays LD as usually including superior visual-spatial IQ, artistic talent and the like. These are supposedly reasons why the student cannot master mundane tasks like reading and writing, they are far too creatively talented.

Sadly, LD students fall across the continuum of IQ. LD students also fall along the continuum of visual-spatial and artistic talents. Being LD is not apparently related to these talents. There is not a correlation nor is there a causitive link between LD and visual-spatial talents. When these two things occur together it is the particular combination of genetics/environment present in that child. I read a study recently that looked at the incidence of visual-spatial talent in LD youngsters. The study did NOT support the thesis that this population tends to possess superior talents in that area.

I, too, teach lowish IQ LD students. Indeed it is very sad when a child perceives him/herself as “stupid.” We have to be ever creative to find ways to bolster their self esteem. Any talent the child has can and should be tapped and brought to into the “light.” ld teacher wrote:
>
> I have a student that is LD with a low i.q. She stays about
> a year and 1/2 behind her grade level but still learns at her
> own pace. I keep hearing about ld students with high i.q.’s,
> but this child (age12) knows she scored low on i.q. tests so
> considers herself forever”stupid” Any ideas, I know she is
> not a loss cause!
> frustrated teacher and friend

Just don’t lie to the child. Children seem to have a sixth sense for this and if she senses that someone is being untruthful about this, it will likely confirm her worst fears about being “stupid.”

I’m not a school teacher, just the parent of an NLD child. But I _am_ a riding instructor. One thing that I’ve seen over and over again in my 25 years of teaching in that sphere, is that desire and determination can sometimes get a person farther than talent or IQ. That’s one thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread.

If the adults in this child’s life can find a way to light a fire in this child’s heart for some specific interest. (it probably doesn’t matter much what that interest is) she’ll have the motivation to learn just for the sake of that interest.

I worked with a child for many years who was mentally retarded and had mild CP as well. She is an adult now, and still can’t tell her right from her left, and lives in a group home. But she loves horses and wanted to learn to ride enough that she was able to overcome her major disabilites enough to be able to compete in horse shows, over fences, against able bodied competitors.

It was pretty gratifying when her academic teachers came to watch her compete one day. They just didn’t believe, until they saw it with their own eyes that this girl could learn and remember the pattern of a jumping course. The courses are posted shortly before the class starts, and there is no opportunity to practice, per se… just a 5 minute “warm up” over fences first thing in the morning on show day. There were tears in the teachers’ eye when they watched this kid compete and win.

Nothing will change the fact that she is very low functioning, and can’t drive or live on her own. But it has done wonders for her self esteem that even though she is not “talented” by any stretch of the meaning, through grit and determination, she learned to do SOMETHING as well or better than most “normal” people ever will.

That’s an extreme case. But I’ve taught many people to ride who weren’t in the least bit talented. They were just very INTERESTED, and willing to work hard because of it.

Karen

Hi Robin,
I wish the FEDERAL government that gave us this vague, open-to-interpretation law would also have had the courage to provide STATES with the $$$ to carry out their mandates. Seems to me if this law was important enough to pass in the first place, it should have come with sufficient funding.

JJ

My son too is labeled a slow learner. 2 IQ tests, WISC III-overall IQ, 70. Kaufman Brief Test-Overall IQ 80. He has struggled his whole life to keep up academically. Is now 17, will be a senior in high school. Testing was not done until age 16, after I demanded it. He does not fit LD or special ed criteria. My district did place him on a 504 though. Will some moderate accomidations in reg.ed classes. His hardest times are in Math. In California you need Algebra to graduate. He has yet to pass it. On the NLD, do you feel 10 point difference between verbal and nonverbal IQ is enough to justify NLD? Both IQ tests he has a 10 pt.difference exactly. Thanks for any advice of suggestions you can give. I posted this message also a previous mssage. I want to say from my personel experience the LOW IQ kids fall through the cracks of the system. My son tries hard, harder than some. I will see that he graduates also with a diploma. It is very important to him. He missed 8th gr.promotion, due to failing classes. At that time I was not aware of situation. It’s too bad about money, point discrepency etc.,etc. He does not want to settle for a GED at night school. That is not a question for him. Any advice on Algebra help? Differential grading was a recomm.in the 504 plan, but Dean of students in charge of program would not implement it. By the way, she told the school psychologist and my son’s counselor that she did not feel my son was entitled to be on a 504. In turn, this year she did not even ask him once how things were going. And she’s in charge of monitoring his plan!

Socks, you know a lot, isn’t there some remedy for a school not following the 504? Perhaps calling office of civil rights or something like that? I am trying to use my faulty memory but it seems that if Tracy’s son has a 504 plan the school must follow it.
It seems a shame that unless you are average to high iq and ld or profoundly mentally handicapped, you don’t have representation(I am thinking lda, chadd,assoc. for mental retarded citizens,)surely there is something that can be done for these kids who fall in the middle.
Tracy good luck and best wishes.

Thanks for your response. I’m going to make sure this year it is followed by the book. He has to pass every credit to graduate in June. No summer school this year, this is it. So if needed I will call one of these organizations. I will also talk to the Superintendant’s office and make sure he is aware of the situation.
Thanks and I’ll keep you posted.
Tracy