NLD, Conceptualization, and Intuition

Hi Arlene,

Again, I think we are soul sisters:)). Like you, I have a lousy rote memory, am intuitive, and except for the job hunting/career planning area, consider myself to be a creative problem solver. I can definitely carry a tune but share your other difficulties.

I think the key issue you have to ask yourself is instead of going by the literature, which alot of people have found to be awfully rigid, is do you have difficulties in these three major areas; visual spatial, the social area, and gross and fine motor skills. Your difficulties don’t have to be major but a bunch of minor stuff can add up.

I also have Dyslexia and ADHD so I think my poor rote memory is because of those conditions. As a way of compensating, I look for the gist of whatever I am trying to learn.

The one thing that bothers me about your diagnosis though is like me, you sound borderline NLD. As a result, I definitely would not put you anywhere near the AS continuum.

I know it is frustrating as I went through similar experiences after being diagnosed in 98. One of the 1st books I picked up was by Sue Thompson and I literally cried because it was so depressing and I felt didn’t describe my situation as I am definitely not literal minded except when I am under stress or don’t read something very carefully. But as time went on, I realized that even though I didn’t meet the classical definition of NLD, there was no doubt that I had it. I just resented greatly all the stereotypes that existed about it but that’s another post.

Hope this helps.

PT

Dear PT,

Thanks. Your response was very reassuring. I have an appointment on Wednesday with someone who specializes in NLD. I’ll let you know what I find out.

Again, thanks.

Arlene

Arlene,

You’re very welcome. Let me know what this person says.

PT

Arlene,

My son has right brain deficits as well as a language based disability. He was evaluated by a neruologist for Asbergers. He said no. Anyway, his report said that my son has a nonverbal type of disability.

From the reading I’ve done, he does not have NLD. NLD is a particualar constellation of symptoms at severe enough levels for diagnosis. It is possible that you have nonverbal learning weaknesses/disability without have NLD. I read a book on NLD in children and it was not my son. Yet, my son does have specific weaknesses in all the areas that NLD affects.

I have noticed that many specialists are rather generous about handing out a NLD diagnosis when, in my opinion, it is a fairly rare occurence. I think it is far less rare for someone to have significant weaknesses in right brain activities, like my son.

Beth

I did go for a consultation today and will go back next week because it’s not clear what’s going on. Thanks for all the support. I’ll keep you posted.

Arlene

Hi Beth,

There is some debate as to whether the current literature defines NLD too strictly. But I do agree with you that the diagnosis is handed out far too many times when it shouldn’t be.

I do agree I have NLD but there were so many aspects of the my evaluation that were quite troublesome. What bothered me in particular and in my opinion professionals who write about NLD do the same thing, is that language LDs that are also diagnosed are considered minor in comparison. The dyslexia that I was also diagnosed with was considered to be minor because I compensated so well.

In my opinion, that is the most useless and worthless statement a professional can write on an evaluation as it comes across as extremely dismissive. Has it ever occurred to these folks how draining, exhausting, and demoralizing it is to have to compensate so well and still not be functioning at least in the average range of a skill area?

What also happens is because I have NLD and mention reading difficulties, people automatically assume it is because I have the stereotypical problems with inferential comprehenion and not being able to see the big picture. The real truth of the manner is I have a breakdown in phonological processing at the later stages according to everything I have read on the internet. Yeah, somehow, I did learn to compensate but I read at a snail’s pace.

Obviously, from the posts on this board, finding a competent professional for diagnosing difficulties seems to be a difficult task. But I hope by sharing my experiences, that anyone who is in the process of seeking an LD diagnosis will proceed extremely cautiously and know the necessary questions to ask.

PT

PT,

I guess I just wanted to bring up the possibility of NLD type disabilities without the severity necessary to fit the profiles you read about. Like everything else, there is a continuum. I know that having significant weaknesses is disruptive, even if you aren’t at the level of a syndrome.

As far as evaluations go, I know where you are coming from. I have intended to have my son evaluated by a neurospychologist. But my efforts last summer did not produce anyone I felt comfortable with. I had one person tell me that they diagnosis NLD a lot!!

You write well and I hope my son someday can do the same.

Beth

Beth,

Thank you for your kind words about my writing. Long before I was initially diagnosed with LD/ADHD, a wonderful person at a community college taught me how to write. I can’t tell you what he did but he had an excellent sense of humor which probably kept me going when I wanted to quit. After I finished working with him, I received mostly As on college papers.

Since I have complained alot about dealing with incompetent professionals, I feel I also have an obligation to talk about the folks who were extremely helpful. Obviously, this person fit that criteria.

Good luck in finding a competent neuropsychologist for your son.

PT

Arlene,

I have a very close friend who is working on a PhD in clinical psychology. She is very knowledgeable about LD and was the first to diagnose me as part of a school assignment (though it doesn’t count because she doesn’t yet have her license). My friend is quick to remind me that we may not exhibit ALL of the symptoms of any particular learning disability. What is significant is that you hit SOME of them-that there appears to be a pattern here.

Bear in mind that the brain is a terribly complex organ. There are probably no two people on the planet who share the exact same learning disability. There are are probably millions of people who have the identical heart problem, but not so with LD!

If it makes you feel any better, I’m not a rote learner either. I have trouble with sequencing, directions, following movies, getting lost, reading a map,and a hundred other troubles. I envy you because you’re good at math. I’m terrible at it.

I did not seem to get hit with the social component of this disability. So. I say, ” Thank God for that!” I had to get a break on something! That’s the way you need to look at your disability. Thank God that you have an aptitude for math. Try to focus on all of the areas in which you are strong. I have no doubt that you have many.

Good luck. Keep your chin up. Let me know how it went at the doctor’s office.

Best regards,

Erin

Hi Erin,

Thanks for the information and support. I am struggling to try to balance the deficits and strengths. I just finished sending an email to the person I’m working with, telling him more about how I think and what I believe to be true about myself. I feel fortunate to have found someone who seems open to investigating all of this with me, and who is treating me with a great deal of respect. To either deny my weakness or my strengths is to see only a partial picture.

I feel extremely skilled in some areas and quite below the norm in others. I so much want to be able to use my skills, primarily in my major areas of interest, which include remediation of deficits in brain functioning (e.g., in autism and related areas) and public education in relation to disabilities. I am also interested in how life can be enriched for people with disabilities, and their needs better understood. My needs were ignored when I was little. Had they been better understood, I might have received needed services which might have allowed a higher quality of life.

Well, it’s good to know I’m not the only one who has trouble following movies!! I love it when I see posters list their different difficulties and I can say “Phew! I’m glad I’m not the only one!” It makes me feel less alone.

I too have been struggling off and on with whether or not I have certain disabilities. I was definitely diagnosed with specific LDs in Math and Reading, mostly on the more complex stuff like Comprehension and word problems. I too have entertained the idea that I may have NLD as well as CAPD. Sounds like finding a good professional is not easy. I can’t imagine that there aren’t decent professionals out there—it’s a matter of finding them. For those on this thread looking for testers, how about getting a referral. I am a strong believer of getting ideas and names from people who are trusted, whether it’s friends or other professionals.

Good luck to you,

Christine

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADHD_Bulletin_Board/

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/ears/central_auditory.html

[%sig%]

Hello,
I don’t know where to start because I’m still in the confused/depressed stage of my diagnosis. Was formally diagnosed as NLD about five years ago. I did not really know what it meant at the time, but the more I learn, the more things make sense to me and help explain my life’s disappointments.

I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and have been quite successful in more of a sales role and not doing “pure” engineering. My last job that I lost was not a good fit for me due to the strong attention to detail and working on engineering drawings entailing three dimensions, in which I have great difficulty. The psychologist who tested me said that, “I am surprised you successfully completed a program in engineering.” This statement brings up an interesting point. Had I been diagnosed before college, would I have not tried and given up on engineering? It is true that I had to work harder than other people-but I learned a different way. I learned by understanding concepts and not by rote memory. This way of learning providing me a real sense of knowledge and confidence that I know I can figure almost anything out (given my own time, space, and little pressure).

My problems are listed:
Poor spatial abilities, especially when driving and directions. To compensate I use a GPS unit that navigates me around.
Poor sequencing or organization. I use a PDA (or Palm Pilot equal) to write important events and better gage my time.
Poor relationships. Relationships end and I don’t understand why. I know I become overloaded when with people for a long time. I guess I have to work hard at following the conversation and sifting out all the distractions to relate to people. I think this adds to my depression because I want friendships, but they are too much for me in the long run.
Taking things literally. This is sometimes a problem at work when people are joking around and I can’t figure out where they’re coming from.
Can’t dance! Have great difficulty learning/following steps and am not comfortable moving in that way. Although I enjoy music.
Am very distracted/annoyed by distracting noises,i.e. phone rings, humming of the refigerator, people talking in background when I’m trying to follow a conversation. If I go in a room with a noisey ceiling fan, I become a little agitated.
I am very sensitivie to my own space and am bothered by strong smells,i.e. perfumes, smoke. Also am sensitive when doctors take my pulse or listen to my heartbeat. And needles and blood make me become so overwhelmed that I pass out.
Another thing that was discovered is that I have sleep apnea, causing me to stop breathing when asleep and then gasping for breath. This leaves me very tired during the workday and I have a strong need to nap during the day (don’t we all!). Am working on using the CPAP machine at night with infrequent success.

I guess it’s only fair to list my talents/attributes:
Excellent mechanical aptitude in repairing/understanding equipment.
I am kind and people generally like me.
Enjoy woodworking, photography, table pool, bicycling.
Enjoy meeting people for short term.
People say I am handsome.
Very good in math.

Thank you for listening. I’m just at the depressed stage due to failed relationships and being confused to what is the best work that is suited for me.

Mike

As the subject line says,I’m NLD, probably have been since birth. (Not too sure why or how…thinking maybe due to being born three months early, and perhaps didn’t get enough oxygen when I was born…or maybe it has to do with my birth mother drinking like a fish when she was carrying me??? Who knows…) The challenges I face due to having NLD seems to impact my social skills, eye to hand coordination, fine motor skills, difficulties in writing, and slow processing speed- I also am horrible at learning new hands on things. I learned to read before I even started school…(Think they call that Hyperlexia????)

My strengths seem to be reading, can express myself VERY well verbally.
Also, enjoy anything creative- counted cross stitch, crochet, even a little home sewing as well…LOVE to cook….pretty much just about any textile related art- save for Plastic Canvas work….and I refuse to crochet bed dolls- (Cheezy and dorky in my opinion!) I was always pretty good at book learning….but written work was a chore and nightmare for me.
I’m far from ignorant… I’m also warm,sensitive,caring, generous, care about what happens to my fellow man, I try to help when I can…loyal,compasionate….I just have problems with social skills, hands on, hand eye coordination, and a slow processing speed. I certainly do NOT deny being horrible at reading others. Social Skills? Not too bad, in terms of manners and conducting myself appropriately in public…but when it comes to making friends,reading other people, and being in a social setting?! I feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable…like I’m always on the outside looking in….the wall flower..(would rather avoid it, thank you…LOL..)
It’s gotten so bad, that I absolutely HATE being in public,unless I’m going shopping…and try to avoid social settings when at all possible! (Guess you could call it the “once bitten twice shy” syndrome…or covering my own backside…not that I do anything that would necessitate CYOA…but it’s better to be safe than sorry.) I also learned that having LD means that due to my having it, as far as my family is concerned, I am a source of shame, embarassment, humiliation…and a dirty little secret they bust their butts to hide or pretty much deny.( A case of “See how much nicer it is if Genita’s not around? OR if I am there, I get the impression that I’m REALLY NOT wanted there or welcome IF I do show up!But,no matter what I do make an effort to contribute something positive or helpful in some way…And, go out of my way to be polite,pleasant and considerate.) If I DO try and do the social thing….it always comes out and bites me in the butt….So, I learned to stay to myself for the most part…I learned my lesson- I’m NOT wanted in most social settings so, I don’t impose on it….and stay to my self.
Genita