7 year old daughter

THe grimness is often to keep people from deciding that since NVLD kiddos often seem to do fine in reading and writing, that they don’t need anyhelp. There are scads and scads of NVLD folks functioning *fine* in the world — many of ‘em were nerds who had to learn social skills consciously, or very verbal folks with *relatively* poor math skills (though Miss JOnes sincerely believes that has a lot to do with teaching — you can do almost anything in math through calculus with verbal logic). An awful lot can be done by being aware that some things are going to be a bit tougher and should be attended to; especially if you’ve got a good verbal memorizer who can get by without comprehending — *if* you let her.

It’s also not like a contagious disease — if those germs get in you they multiply and run their course — it’s more like a headache, where there are infinite degrees and variations.

THose test scores say you’ve got a kiddo who’s really struggling with math, and doens’t have the best visual-spatial perception. HOwever, it’s not the worst either. *And* she has very strong strengths — even in those visual areas. It’s only when you put it into three dimensions that she struggles with it.

I’d get a math tutor who would completely ignore whatever they’re doing at school and teach her at *her* pace, and get her into swimming or tae kwon do or something that will get her aware of where her body is in space (I’ve heard good things about wall climbing too).

Thanks so much for your input. Do you have any ideas about math
interventions that would help her? touch math?
math facts the fun way?
drill with flash cards?
From the scores I listed above, does it seem like she has NLD?
What about the fact that her social skills are so good?
She is also very adept at reading facial expressions.
None of this makes sense to me.

I like you read up on NLD. My son had trouble with writing and in math when they got into subtraction with borrowing in 2nd grade. My son like yours did not have social issues so I threw that worry out the door. I think you should do the same. Social issues are a big part of NLD the other cirteria is a spread in PIQ and VIQ of more then 10 points and more like 15. Your daughter has neither of these so take Sue’s advice and concentrate on working on her math while focusing on her strengths.

My son at 14’s splits in IQ is bigger now but that is because the PIQ penalizes for processing speed/visual-motor integration issues.

I hope this helps.

Helen

Just a quick note (I hope). I believe a lot of the articles written about nld are fairly old, the ones that don’t give much hope.I am 38 yrs old and in IQ testing I have a 40 point split between verbal and performance (120 v and 80 p), was dxed add inattentive and was told I scored high on the passive,avoidance personality disorder scale. I did poorly in math but I agree with SueJ about the teaching, kids back then usually didn’t get taught in a manner in which they needed. Folks, for the most part, know more now than they did about learning styles. If indeed I am nld (I fit the profile I think better than what the psycho came up with, haven’t pursued it) I am nowhere near a failure in any sense of the word. I finished high school in the top third, I went to college and got a degree. I am a stay at home mom partly because I choose to be and only partly because I still haven’t decided what I want to be when I grow up. I am very shy and awkward in large groups, and can’t find my way out of a paper bag until I have been in and out of it numerous times. Your daughter is not doomed to a non life or a life of failure. Work on her weaknesses and celebrate her strengths. You are ahead of the game because you have a clue what those are.

Two points in addition to the input you have already received- which is excellent.

1. 37% is within the average range-near the bottom of the avg range and certainly not a strength given the rest of her scores- so I would be more concerned with the VMI stuff- she is having a hard time making her body so what her brain wants- but not because she isn’t processing it- she is. OT- along with activities like dance or martial arts depending on her personal bent- can help a lot.

2. One of the reasons I hate labels like NLD, dysgraphia and dyslexia is that people begin to let the label drive their thinking- if this is what my child is then …. arghhh. Your child is unique and wonderful indvidiual who presents a certain unique profile as a learner. Teach to her strengths and remediate her weak areas and worry less about what it is all called. Ms.G.- along with Miss Jones up there- figures it is the teaching and loving rather than the diagnosis that will ultimately make the difference for all our kids.

Robin

My 8 year old son has CAPD and all the other problems you mention. He has come a long long ways. He doesn’t have NVLD. I guess what I want to say, like Helen, is that kids can have some characteristics of NVLD and not have it.

My son was in resource room for math for first and second grade. His language deficits (CAPD) and poor visual spatial skills were the culprit. We did Neuronet (http://www.neuroacoustics.com/) therapy for six months and the special education teacher recommended that he be dismissed. He is now in third grade and pulling B’s in math in a regular classroom.

We also have done vision therapy which improved his visual motor skills.

We are now doing sound therapy (The Listening Program) through our Neuronet provider. As queer as this sounds, it has improved his small motor skills. It is actually quite an amazing change. I have also heard that Interactive Metronome improves small motor skills.

So, you need to figure out exactly what your child’s problems are (and don’t pay too much attention to labels) and then systematically try to deal with them.

Beth

Yea, Robin!!! I agree!!! That’s one point in favor of school labelling of reading disorder, vs. dyslexic. It does put the label on the area of delay rather than labelling the child.

Janis

Thanks to all for your advice and encouragement.
I cannot give up on my child, and will not accept the doom and gloom
prognosis some of the experts predict.
I am going to pursue therapies as I had planned, and in the meantime
love and support my beautiful daughter.
This board is a lifeline for me.
Thanks
stephanie

Good advice. I would like to differ with you on how far verbal logic can take you in “higher” math. I was a weakish math student (among the collegebound population) and I have lots of trouble with visualizing spatial relations. I do find this hinders me in working out math problems that require application and do not merely follow the algorithm. I am starting to take informal data on this relationship, for instance one student I teach qualifies only in math. Her block design is a 7. Everything else on WISC was a 9, 10 or 11. She can compute, learn facts and algorithms. She cannot discern whether to add or subtract in a one step word problem, in 5th grade after I have put quite a lot of attention on this all year! I do believe there is an inherent sense of “seeing” the problem and what needs to be done.

I hate three dimensional things. I remember in my PhD program the stats professor brought in this three dimensional figure to teach us multiple regression. Lots of people “got” it but I was more confused than ever. On the other hand, he used essay exams. For the first time, I actually understood stats rather than just following the cookbook. I truly think he taught (mostly) to my verbal strengths.

I’m here to vouch for the practicality of sue’s suggestions. She helped guide me through an incredibly difficult situation (over YEARS) and we are all doing fine. And thriving. And enjoying life. And I even have a good relationship with the special ed director. And my kid is reading…I mean really reading. There is hope…don’t let labels get in the way.

Hi Anitya,

Just thought I’d point out that my 14yo dd who tested LD in math last spring had a Block Design score of 15 on the WISC-III. I homeschool my dd but despite all the extra work we are doing in math, she continues to only have an average of 65% accuracy in her work (level 5A Singapore math). Her biggest and most consistent problems are with simple computational errors (memory), eliminating or scrambling steps (organization, attention) and misinterpreting what to solve for in word problems (comprehension). She recently began NeuroNet therapy and we have incorporated skip counting into her exercises to help with multiplication facts.

Blessings, momo

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Let us know how “neuronet” goes.

You may want to try the Lindamood Bell based On Cloud Nine program. My son had lots of trouble with math (LD, mild ADHD) but is half way thru the program (30 - 40 hours so far) and making wonderful progress!

You may want to try the Lindamood Bell based On Cloud Nine program. My son had lots of trouble with math (LD, mild ADHD) but is half way thru the program (30 - 40 hours so far) and making wonderful progress!

I have thought about this program. Are you doing it at home or through
a provider?
We don’t live anywhere near a lindamood clinic, and they are quite
expensive.
Is this something I could order and do at home? I have a teaching background
and work pretty well with my child.
Thanks a lot
stephanie

Stephanie,

Hopefully someone who has used On Cloud Nine Math will answer you, but I have been told that the LB manuals are very well done and easy to follow, so I think the answer will be “yes”. I plan on getting Visualizing and Verbalizing soon to use with my own child and my students at school.

Janis

I would recommend getting extra OT services outside school. I would also recommend having what is called a Sensory Profile Done by an outside OT and to get a speech therapist outside who is trained to help with social skills. That is called pragmatic language- the social use of language and speech therapists who work with autism spectrum kids (NLD is realted but not on the spectrum) should be trained in that. Bonus if they are also familiar with CAPD. You can get a high receptive language score on the CELF-P because that does not test auditory processing, it tests expresive and receptive language. Auditory processing relates to what the brain does with the incoming sounds. Your daughter may be able to compensate sufficiently for not hearing all sounds crrectly by using contect cues such as what the rest of the setnece says. The CELF-P is not designed to look for hearing minor sound differences that would impact everyday functioning. Because so much of the test has pictures to accompany it any auditory difficulties might be factored out. Your audiologist or SLP should be able to better explain why that happened. I personally wouldn’t use that as my only diagnostic for eligibility for speech language therapy services.