Analyzing WISC lll scores....

Just got daughters WISC lll scores that were done on Friday.
verbal 89 performance 126 FS 106
vocab 8
picture comp. 15
picture arr. 19
object ass. 18 (9,13,11 and now 19
diget span now has dropped to 5

Are they dropping as well? If they are she could be ADD-Inattentive. If she is zoning out in class she won’t be picking up the verbage that her peers are getting. She is much stronger visually and right brained than left brained, but I would definitely check into getting her speech and language services and looking into ADD-Inattentive. That spread is 37 points between PIQ and VIQ!

In 98 processing speed was at the 47th percentile Friday it was at the 39th. Along with freedom from distractability going from 32nd to the 25th to the 7th.
I had already thought about ADD but other than the inability to concentrate and or zoning out she doesn’t fit in any other way. No social stuff or personality stuff, etc. that seems to go alng with. Is ADD-inattentive different in some way then ADD? She has a Speech and language evel. on the 25th of this month. She didn’t qualify with the districts testing although I insist that there has to be a language disorder present for her to have the verbal scores she does, we”ll see….

Here’s the diagnostic criteria found at the following link:

http://lib-sh.lsumc.edu/fammed/intern/adhd.html

Many people (including me a year ago until I found this criteria) think ADHD is always a hyperactivity kind of thing. But Inattentive is a separate sub-type which can occur alone or in combination with hyperactivity/impulsivity symptoms.

NOTE:Diagnosis of ADHD-Inattentive only requires significant symptoms from Category 1

DSIM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for ADHD
–––––––––––––-

A. Either 1 or 2:
1. Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention
have persisted for at least six months to a degree
that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

a. Often fails to give close attention to details or makes
careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities
b. Often has difficulty sustaining attention in
tasks or play activities
c. Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
d. Often does not follow through on instructions and fails
to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace
(not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand
instructions)
e. Often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
f. Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks
that require sustained mental effort (such as homework)
g. Often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (toys,
school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
h. Is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
i. Is often forgetful in daily activities

2. Six or more of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-
impulsivity have persisted for at least six months to a
degree that is maladaplive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Hyperactivity
a. Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
b. Often leaves seat in classroom or in other
situations in which remaining seated is expected
c. Often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is
inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to
subjective feelings of restlessness)
d. Often has difficulty playing or engaging in
leisure activities quietly
e. Is often “on the go” or often acts as if “driven by a motor”
f. Often talks excessively

Impulsivity
g. Often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
h. Often has difficulty awaiting turn
i. Often interrupts or intrudes on others (such
as butting into conversations or games)

B. Some hyperactive, impulsive, or inattentive symptoms that
caused impairment were present before age 7 years
C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more
settings (such as in school or work and at home)
D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant
impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning
E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course
of a pervasive developmental disorder, schizophrenia, or another
psychotic disorder and are not better accounted for by another
mental disorder (such as a mood, anxiety, dissociative, or
personality disorder)

ADHD Types Using DSM-IV criteria
–––––––––––
ADHD, predominantly inattentive type
Meets inattention criteria (section Al) for the past 6 mo

ADHD, predominantly hyperactive-impulsive type
Meets hyperactive-impulsive criteria (section A2) for the past 6 mo

ADHD, combined type
Meets criteria for section Al and section A2 for the past 6 mo

ADHD, not otherwise specified
Prominent symptoms of inattention or hyperactivity-impulsivity that do not meet the criteria for ADHD
In partial remission

If I was a betting woman I would bet the farm that your daughter is ADD-Inattentive. My daughter is ADD-Inattentive and has speech and language issues because of the inattention and her hearing loss. My daughter is social and appears to be the model student in the classroom but she was failing…in all areas of her academic program. The school psychologist didn’t think she was ADD. She said she wasn’t using her visual skills in the classroom and that was a bunch of malarkey because I knew better. I was just diagnosed last fall myself and I started to put two and two together….

The pediatric specialist in ADD that I took my daughter to, his first impression was her dyslexia was due to the hearing impairment but as he started going through her cumm and noticed the consistent drop in her processing speeds pointed to ADD, He also did some screening assessments along with the rating scales that I had done which just cinched the diagnosis. Since she has been on meds it is like the lightbulbs are going on in her head. As they get older and more things are required of them and expected their ability to process things quickly goes out the window because of their inability to focus and concentrate. I think you have discovered a new piece in the remediation puzzle for your daughter.

Tink, my older son and I are both add inattentive, both model students, my son is more outgoing than I was but is a good kid, teachers all like him, he never gets in trouble for behavior issues. I am still a rule follower. My son has had lots of issues from the very beginning of his school career in the reading and lang. arts subjects. The other big factor is inconsistency. He would study just a few spelling words a day, would know 5 words on Tues. Learn 5 more on Wed. but forget how to spell the 1st five, I never knew which words he would spell right by Friday. He would do math problems one day just fine and the next not have a clue. Since 2nd grade, the teachers have really kept up with him pretty well (with the exception of the 3rd gr.) he finally qualified for sped under ohi because of the add issues affecting all of his school. With the help of knowledgeable teachers from 4th up til now he has done well, with support and accommodations from all his teachers.
Not all add kids are behavior problems, kids like my son and I (when I was one ;o) ) often fall through the cracks and aren’t given help when it is needed. I would look up your child’s progress reports and tally up what you see from the teachers, and think about how your child has been in the past,as far as attention or inconsistency of effort or knowledge, using the criteria in the post above. If you think it matches, take that evidence to your doc to explain why you think it fits.
I am not sure about the amount of hearing loss your child has, it could also be capd, some of the symptoms are similar as well as it often occurring together with the add(my son has mild capd). I noted that most classroom accommodations for both conditions are similar. Obviously we are not docs, I guess just trying to help out with what we have dealt with in hopes that it could help. Oh, my son’s last testing showed he had a weakness in his processing speed, it is listed on his accommodations to give him extra time to process questions and such. Amazing how much add can affect with regards to school. I don’t have as much a problem with him anymore at home, he seems a lot more mature in his taking part of family life(listening , follow through on chores,etc). This could just be a lull in the storm, he just turned 12, I have full blown adolescence to look forward to :o) Good luck, also on the fight with the school, what a bunch of &%#. Listen to socks she knows what’s up.

As I research ADD-Inattentive I agree with you whole heartdly. It’s a new area for me and in all honesty medicaton scares me. I figure it is lack of knowledge and continue to educate myself. I also am coming to believe that my own lack of ability in large area’s of my life and my struggle as a child may be due to yhe same condition. That’s just as scary but I have no idea where to start for me. Any advice?

Tink-
My daughter has been struggling in school, no, in life since the day she was born. Over the last couple of years, we finally started to get some answers. She has been diagnosed with vision processing delays, ADHD, CAPD and LD. Also, she is showing signs of obsessive/compulsive disorder and depression. I did not like the idea of having to put my little girl on medication, but I wanted to help her any way I could. I did a lot of research and I STOPPED listening to the “friends” who were telling me that I did not want to put my daughter on “ritalin”. I listened to her doctor, whom I trusted, and to my heart, which was telling me that she needed this help. It has not been an easy time, but the Adderall, that her doctor put her on about 2 years ago has helped her tremendously to focus in the classroom and the psychologist we were sent to decided that she also could use some help with her depression and OCD. He started her on Zoloft about 2 months ago. Her father and I can already see an improvement in her personality and her moods and she has not cleaned out a closet in a couple weeks. Although, I appreciated the help with the household cleaning, I knew that it wasn’t something that a normal 9 year old usually does willingly. I still get crap from people who don’t have a clue what they are talking about and have no idea, what my daughter and her whole family have been dealing with for the last 9-1/2 years, but I’m doing my best to tune them out and remember that I am doing what is best for my daughter. I am all for alternative therapies and any therapies that work. All I know is that medication has helped my daughter (and her family).

Greetings Tink,

I’m exactly where you are with my 14yo daughter. She has APD, VPD and dysnomia and she has made great strides as a result of various therapies (FFW, IM, PACE, MTC). These improvements, however, have made it more apparent that her ADD-like symptoms are probably ADD inattentive and possibly Limbic ADD. I would encourage you to check out the website by Dr. Amen, nationally recognized expert in ADD. Through SPECT imaging and working with thousands of patients over the years, he has identified 6 types of ADD. At his website, www.brainplace.com, there is a checklist which you can complete for your daughter - and for you - which is an invaluable tool to determine if ADD exists, and, if so, which type(s). Four of the six ADD types do not respond well to ritalin alone so it is important to identify which type(s). Please note that the questionnaire is not meant to provide a diagnosis but it serves as a guide to help people begin to identify problems and get further evaluation for them. Hope this website helps you as much as it has me!

I too have been fretting over the entire medication issue but I’ve finally come to the conclusion that I might be doing my daughter a real disservice by not giving meds a try.

Blessings, momo

Here’s a link to Dr. Amen’s test (questionnaire style) that can give you an idea whether ADHD might be worth pursuing:

http://www.amenclinic.com/ac/addtests/subtype.asp

I used to think the same thing about meds.. I didn’t think my child had ADD. I just figured it was her CAPD and would get mad at the teachers when they would suggest that she just isn’t paying attention and say, “You have no idea how hard we are trying to pay attention so that we can hear everything, we get tired of listening.” Part of the problem was me because I had the same problem, I am ADD and so are my kids.

The most eye opening experience for me was being in an undergrad class in language development and I heard the professor describe children and adults with ADD. I looked at my girlfriend and said, “she is describing me and my daughter.” My 46 year old girlfriend herself had just been diagnosed as Add-Inattentive and was embarrassed that she was ADD and had not told me about her problem. This lecture opened the floodgates of acceptance for her. She told me that before she tried on medication she had struggled her whole life with inattentive behaviors and depression. She wanted to finish college but she couldn’t because she would start a class with great intentions and then lose interest and drop it. This made her even more depressed and feeling worthless. She finally went to the psychiatrist and he put her on Dexedrine. I am happy to say that she graduated with me in May, and we are both in the grad program with over 3.5 GPA’s and we can now joke about being ADD and it is ok. One of my other organized *normal friends* who isn’t ADD was telling me, “I so admire how you handle being ADD, you celebrate your differences and accept them and can laugh when you screw up.” I told her, “If I didn’t laugh about it and accept it I would be depressed..

This has been a journey for me as I realize that I am ADD and what I need to do to be successful however, it still took me 2 more years of reading and research to finally make the choice to get my daughter medication. The auditory trainer wasn’t enough. I wish I had done it so much sooner. After we tried meds she looked at me and said, “Mom, I can finally concentrate, she felt the difference.”

Her ADD-Inattentive behaviors over the years have cost her dearly. Now I am trying to fill the language gaps that YEARS of inattentive behaviors have left. Her self-esteem is fragile, she feels stupid and gives up easily. I have faced similar challenges in my classes because of my ADD and CAPD. I am very gifted but I was always frustrated because I wasn’t showing how smart I was in multiple choice exams. I was fighting my racing and indecisive mind and I was getting more and more anxiety because I couldn’t understand why I was not getting the A’s my study buddies were. I knew the material and application sometimes better than they did, I was able to instruct them in the process in my right brained style and they would say, Oh, I get it…but when I took the tests I would make stupid inattentive mistakes that cost me dearly getting B’s and an occasional C which could just send me over the edge..LOL because I KNEW I was capable, I just couldn’t pull it together during the tests and my study buddies were just as dumbfounded as I about my lackluster performance on tests that they aced.

If I felt this way, I could only imagine what my children and the kids I tutor go through that face similar challenges and dissappointments. I had to do something about it because I was getting depressed and ready to give up. I finally went into the students with disabilities office and was tested by the psychologist who is ADD himself. I was reading over 750 words a minute, my vocabulary, processing speed and comprehension were good but even in that testing he noticed everything was fine until I hit the last part of the scantron and I missed a bubble, which totally screwed up the rest of the scantron. He figured it out, lined it up and whalla I got the answers right. He laughed and pointed out what I had done and how he figured it out…I said, “See, what I do, I don’t even realize I am doing it. That is why I am here, I can’t take it anymore. I know the stakes are high, I have to get a high GPA to get into the Grad program.” He gave me some literature on study habits and ways to read questions and reason with them and some strategies to make sure that I double check my tests for correct answers. After that my scores went up and I finally tried Meds and they have made a big difference in the way that I process and retain information. I recently made the deans list after 2 years of being a B+ student. It was when I was on meds that the grades went up. I could finally do what I knew I was capable of doing only without the meds my mind was always racing and riddled with indecision and anxiety. There is something to how the brain works and meds can help along with behavior modification strategies. I don’t take the meds all the time, only when I need to concentrate and study for exams.

Dr. Daniel Amen, as Momo said, is a good place to start. His video’s are fabulous, he has been there and done that with his wife and kids. Also Anita Archer’s books by Curriculum Associates called Skills for School Success are good to teach a child organizational skills and how to learn. Good luck with your search and don’t be afraid to try meds, like I said, I use them when I need to be focused and sharp, I don’t take them every day. But an adult can monitor their behavior and a child can’t. Most of the kids that I work with that are ADD have their limit and hit the wall easily, they have a hard time focusing, being consistent. Meds help keep them on task and consistent. That is the key being consistent and with having ADD myself my consistency is hard to accomplish and follow through on. Eventually as an ADD person gets training in behavior mods, and meds and gets older they will learn how to monitor their ADD and what they need to do to focus and be successful. Keep us posted….I wish you the best!

I went to this website brainplace.com, but could not find the checklist you were talking about. Where is it?

Thanks for the personal sharing. It makes me think that I’m not crazy after all. All of my life I have struggled with underacheivement and my organizational skills I swear, must be in the 2%. As I get older it seems to be getting worse and I am struggling with depression on a daily basis. It has always seemed like I was different somehow…. unable to follow through on just about anything, unable to financial plan or take care of the bills and unable to communicate with others effectively when under even the slightest amount of pressure. Up until now I just have kind of settled for…. and resigned myself to what is. But with things coming full circle for with my daughter I am thinking that maybe, just maybe there is a way out of the fog and confusion for both of us. And if that means meds, so be it. I personally will try anything to lift the weight I’ve carried all these years and unleash the things I know I can be. I appreciate all the responses I recieved on this it has helped tremendously!

Greetings Kim,

It’s called the Interactive Amen Brain System Checklist and is located near the end of the menu on the left-hand side. However, just copy and paste the following url in your address line to access it directly.

http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/default.asp

Blessings, momo

I am glad we could help becuase it helps everyone to know that they aren’t alone in a situation. We all have learned from each other over the years. I can tell you have a growing season coming on for both you and your daughter, a time for changes and they will be wonderful. It will be hard but the changes that you will see in both of your lives will be worth it. Hang in there and let us know if we can do anything else to help you.