Davis Dyslexia

My personal opinion is that there are a lot better ways to spend your time and money. I can’t go into detail now but will try to get back to you later, or you can email me.

My personal assessment is that it’s smoke and mirrors. Get the book “The Gift of Dyslexia” by Mr. Davis and try some of the exercises descibed. You’ll get the method, see if it helps, and get to keep your $5K. And if it doesn’t help, then you can spend the money on a whole lot of individual reading/spelling tutoring. That kind of intensive one on one attention did help my son. It was $25/hour and once to twice a week.

Good luck,

KayR

OK, time for more detail.

Now, there is one person on this board whose opinion I do respect who used some Davis ideas with her child and claims they helped a lot — BUT: she did *not* spend thousands of dollars on the “training”, rather did the work herself at home; she did the *educational* parts of it, not necessarily all the other stuff; and she did *other* educational programs as well at the same time, and often using several programs together to reach a problem from many sides at once can be very effective, where one part alone is not sufficient. So when I speak here I am *not* condemning every single thing about Davis.

What I see negative about Davis:

First, the cost. As the previous poster notes, you can get a heck of a lot of very effective *proven*, one-to-one tutoring for five thousand bucks. That would be 170 hours from me, and most kids I get reading in a lot less than that. This is just too much for an unproven program.

Second, what Davis does. There is an awful lot of cheerleading and attitude adjustment and coaching in snappy answers, a lot of philosophizing and unproven psychological theories stated as facts, and relatively little academic teaching.
If you go to the IDA bulletin board, a lot of people who say they are Davis graduates post there. I suggest that you go there and look at the organization, spelling, and attitude shown by these success stories and decide if that is what you are looking for for your child.

Third, the scientific backing. There isn’t any that I know of. Yes, they post on their website about some studies — but those studies have been done by their own people under their own criteria and are simply too partisan to be taken at face value.
Yes, there are therapies that do seem to be effective that are new and experimental and that still don’t have scientific backing. But the ones I trust have other things going for them, such as people I trust and respect who have used the program successfully.

Fourth, very aggressive attacks on me and other people who dare to disagree with them. This thread may attract them again — we will see. One person on the Davis payroll makes a point of coming on all academic putting us down, and listing all sorts of references — which references, when investigated, prove to say the opposite of what she claims or not to exist at all; she then refers to mysterious secret references which somehow only special initiates can see, the opposite of the scientific and academic model of open sharing of information.

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OK, what you can do that will most likely get you much more bang for your buck:
Get a qualified and experienced tutor who uses proven, tried-and-true multisensory approaches. You can go for brand names such as Lindamood Bell or Orton-Gillingham or Phonographix, *or* you can get someone like me who has been doing this for years since before the brand name stuff was available on the internet (since before there was an internet). You can go to a LMB or PG center, or you can get one-to-one from a private person. Just make sure that they know about multisensory structured language approaches and have experience tutoring.

If you want, I send out my how-to-tutor lessons to anyone who asks, thirteen or fourteen long posts, [email protected]

I agree very much with Victoria’s assessment. I did have some Davis method for my son, but I was able to find a clinic that used a number of methods to teach my son. They also did Lindamood Bell, Fast ForWord. I prefer an independent specialist who uses a variety of methods, not just their one program. Also, from my point of view, dyslexia means difficulty learning to read. You want to look at what is causing the problem - visual? auditory? - then 1) develop treatment for those areas 2) use research based reading methods with an experienced teacher in an intensive setting and 3) keep letting your child get an education - learn about geography, history, enjoy good books. Get the IEP team, modifications, accomodations and unless you feel it will benefit him do NOT retain him. For what? What is going to happen repeating a grade? We have walked a very long row - from 1st grade to now 12th. Last night he read two pages from an 12th grade social studies book. I was amazed. Our (HIS) hard work is finally paying off.

And this is why I’m glad I found ld online! Sometimes I feel like I’m in this little bubble, all alone, trying to find solutions for my son. My friends sympathize, my family feels for me, but no one else has dealt with this in this generation. (My uncle is 43 and dyslexic, entirely different era). Something sounds good and I so badly want to believe that it will work for my Nate the way they say it has worked for others. It’s good to hear from real people who have really been there before I pay that amount of money to anyone.

One of the reasons I thought Davis might help Nate is because of ways we’ve gone about teaching him other things. He has to touch, feel or taste it. With months of the year we had to get this big ball and write the months of the year around it so that he could see that they repeat, that it’s a continuing cycle. He now understands that, though he still can’t tell you what month comes after December. More work with the ball, maybe we can get there. So when Davis was talking about how they use clay, pictures, those type of things to address the root cause of dyslexia, it really sounds good for us. But I can buy clay. We own dictionaries. I can do that stuff at home and for a mere fraction of the cost.

Our biggest parenting mistake ever was allowing Nate to be held back in the 1st grade. The emotional side effects of that were devestating. I’m not about to repeat that mistake again. I spoke with the principal and let him know that under no conditions would we allow Nate to be held back again. They said it would help and we believed them. We thought, because they were educators, they knew what was best. But we were wrong.

But I do have a question. Everyone talks about strong phonics programs being highly effective for dyslexics. My son knows phonics. He can tell you what all the letters sound like. He can quote the “rules” to you. He just can’t apply them. So that makes me wonder how effective O.G., (what the district uses), will actually be with him.

I’m going to start looking for private tutors for Nate. I like the suggestion of finding one with multiple tools and approaches. I just want my son to succeed and to see that he is just as smart as everyone else. Thanks, Tia

And this is why I’m glad I found ld online! Sometimes I feel like I’m in this little bubble, all alone, trying to find solutions for my son. My friends sympathize, my family feels for me, but no one else has dealt with this in this generation. (My uncle is 43 and dyslexic, entirely different era). Something sounds good and I so badly want to believe that it will work for my Nate the way they say it has worked for others. It’s good to hear from real people who have really been there before I pay that amount of money to anyone.

One of the reasons I thought Davis might help Nate is because of ways we’ve gone about teaching him other things. He has to touch, feel or taste it. With months of the year we had to get this big ball and write the months of the year around it so that he could see that they repeat, that it’s a continuing cycle. He now understands that, though he still can’t tell you what month comes after December. More work with the ball, maybe we can get there. So when Davis was talking about how they use clay, pictures, those type of things to address the root cause of dyslexia, it really sounds good for us. But I can buy clay. We own dictionaries. I can do that stuff at home and for a mere fraction of the cost.

Our biggest parenting mistake ever was allowing Nate to be held back in the 1st grade. The emotional side effects of that were devestating. I’m not about to repeat that mistake again. I spoke with the principal and let him know that under no conditions would we allow Nate to be held back again. They said it would help and we believed them. We thought, because they were educators, they knew what was best. But we were wrong.

But I do have a question. Everyone talks about strong phonics programs being highly effective for dyslexics. My son knows phonics. He can tell you what all the letters sound like. He can quote the “rules” to you. He just can’t apply them. So that makes me wonder how effective O.G., (what the district uses), will actually be with him.

I’m going to start looking for private tutors for Nate. I like the suggestion of finding one with multiple tools and approaches. I just want my son to succeed and to see that he is just as smart as everyone else. Thanks, Tia

been there. My daughter was making no progess in early elementary. At 1st grade the reading specialist said she knows her sounds, she’ll read when she’s ready. Made 3 months progress in 2nd grade. Desperate, I went really shopping for a reading tutor for intensive remediation. I found a highly recommended reading teacher with certification and experience in special ed. She is the mom of a dyslexic college student(maybe the most important qualification!) Fortunately, for us (but tough for her) she couldn’t make it as a single parent on a teacher’s salary and had an extensive tutoring business. She saw my daughter 4 times a week for 6 weeks in the summer. My child gained a year in 6 weeks. It took intensive work by some one who was highly experienced, qualified and who really cared if kids could read. She used a variety of materials depending on the kid but was definately OG based.
Ask for recommendations-as the head of reading for your school district, ask your IDA office, ask the ped. clinic, ask the nearest LD school, ask, ask.

Even with the big gains, third and fourth grade were tough years for my girl. Do be prepared for a complicated journey. Many of our children have more than one aspect to their learning profile. After learning to read, my child was a very relucant reader. She had focusing problems which required vision therapy. VT did not cure her dyslexia but it made it comfortable for her to look at a page and focus without the letters jumping around.

did we try Davis? Yup. but from the book. I’d save my money and find a crackerjack reading tutor.

Is there hope? Yes, my daughter won the summer reading prize for 8th grade. The love of reading is a new development. We now specialize in flashlights for reading under the covers!

Do get a good eye exam from a DEVELOPMENTAL optometrist. Insurance usually covers the exam. Yeah, I know the opthamologists pooh, pooh it but it’s real for accomodation issues. www.covd.org

We read to her from infancy onward. We used books on tape for years. It is vital to expose them to a rich language experience. My daughter’s vocabulary always surprised the testers. It came from lots and lots of literature.

We still have occasional blimps. I went to parent conferences yesterday and found that the math teacher was surprized that my daughter had consistently made errors in copying down the assignments (thought she was just careless). She agreed to put it on the board, instead of on the overhead. her English teacher had no idea that the poor printing of the novel “The Chosen” would affect my daughter’s ability to read it. Its absolutely jammed on the page with almost no while space between lines or any margins. UGH!

You will be your child’s case manager. Read everything you can on teaching reading and reading programs. Start with Orton Gillingham. DO NOT RELY ON THE SCHOOL TO TAKE CARE OF IT. You will need to pay for outside testing and remediation. Yes, in theory, they should but your child will be in college before they get around to it or the resources to do the job your child needs.

My vote is save the Davis money for the tutoring and testing.

And a big -Welcome to the club.

‘Buy the book (or get it from the Library!)” Brigade! I DO believe in Davis ‘philosophies’ — but I would not go to a provider for a child of Nate’s age.

The best thing about Davis is the philosophy — that the brain a dyslexic has is ‘normal’ — for a dyslexic! And the idea that some people ‘think in pictures’ and need TEACHING of language, especially abstract language like prepositions etc. — that I go for as well. And I don’t think anyone is a charletan — the cost of a Davis provider, if you find one with credentials, is similar to a one-on-one intensive program of therapy with a clinical psych — but I agree TOTALLY that you should spend your money on a ‘Victoria’!

I did use the book — and the philosophy presented by Davis (as well as my encouragement and belief in the fact that he WOULD read!) SAVED my kid’s self-esteem after a most horrible Gr. 1 year and during a WORSE Gr. 2 year with probably the lousiest example of a 2nd grade teacher I could imagine. We (also via tutors) used clay work to internalize the letters, and much of the advice on tracking (sweep sweep spell; and I can’t remember the name but where you spell the word you can’t recognize out loud).

BUT: what got my son reading was a ‘Victoria’ type teacher using Spalding. We had two summers, one with her (after an absolute NIL 9 months in a whole-language classroom he was reading beginner books in FOUR weeks!) and one with one of her ‘acolytes’ who was almost as valuable, but did not provide any one-on-one — small group lessons only. AND all through this time, starting from the first day of the first tutoring session when they sent home REAL phonics based readers…we read aloud together, and we read aloud together and we read…read…read…ALOUD. TOGETHER. Silent reading for a non-fluent beginning reader is CRAP! This is why you hear kids say ‘I can read fine if I am silent, but not out loud’ — CRAP!

So…get the book! But get a ‘Victoria’ type also…and read her tutoring guidelines…and, have you seen ‘Captain Underpants’ by Dav Pilkey?

Go to his website…www.davpilkey.com. This guy wrote the first book my son ever ‘wanted’ to read — we have never looked back. When any teacher says ‘but it has spelling errors, (in the cartoon parts supposed to be written by the kid-heroes of the books) and it’s not ‘uplifting’, I point to my 6th grader, reading on grade level and presently DEVOURING Emily Rodda’s ‘Deltora Quest’ series (having done all teh animorphs books, Harry potter, and ‘The Hobbit’, not quite ready for LofTR, tho!) I say: SO WHAT!

Kids who will read voluntarily WILL IMPROVE THEIR SKILLS! I consider every cent I’ve spent on comics and kid-zines well spent — if it has letters made into words in it, I will buy it! Because he reads it!

Oh, and WELCOME…!

Most reading problems are caused by auditory processing deficits. That is what most remedial reading programs address. But some kids have other issues that are more visual in nature that affect reading. Davis is one approach for that. There is a provider where I live who developed Davis’ ideas even further. He is very successful with a certain profile of kid. It seems to be a kid who visualizes everything.

My kid hasn’t fit the typical profile either —he has very motor and vestibular based auditory and visual issues—so we’ve done some things that others have not needed to do. I say this to emphasize that it probably makes the most sense to start with the kinds of things that help most kids and then go from there. I would not put Davis in that category.

If your child is having trouble applying the rules of OG you might want to look on Reading Reflex. It is a book available in book stores about a method called Phonographix that has a good success rate. It is not a rule based method. It is the primary method we used with our son—who ended first grade without reading but now reads at grade level. I tried an OG tutor for a short time but really didn’t like the rule emphasis. I found it hard to remember it all and wondered how my child with low average memory would ever do it!

Beth

Yes, after the attacks I will not spend one cent on Davis books, but yes do get the book from the library, or see if you can get it used (used book stores, Amazon.com auctions and zshops, great sources).

I think the clay letters sound interesting, definitely worth a try.

Absolutely with your child encourage the good areas and help get over the bad areas but don’t focus on the bad.
I find some of Davis’s stuff goes way too far, but yes a positive approach is the only way to go — if you decide before you start that you are going to fail, well guess what happens (one of my big arguments with a number of school teachers.)
On the other hand, way too far — I read a message some time ago from a parent who took an adolescent to the Davis workshop. The people there kept telling the students that they were automatically gifted because they were dyslexic (a Davis theory that many of question). Well, this particular student was not especially gifted, and the mother reported that she left the Davis workshop even more depressed and discouraged, because now she’s a failure even at being dyslexic!

Send a request for my reading notes/book-in-progress to [email protected] and read the stuff I have on multisensory — things on learning the alphabet and on handwriting and on tracking and blending.

I LOVE your approach with the months around the ball — definitely on the right track there. Keep up these creative efforts.

For tutors, look at iser.com, call the International Dyslexia Association and see if you have a “local” office that know where you are (mine doesn’t but oh well), try the Yellow Pages (but be *very* cautious of profit-making centers), look in your local weekly newspaper, check out bulletin boards at your local university and in stores — BUT buyer beware — interview the tutor in some detail. One of my posts is an answer to a person who wanted to know what to ask in interviewing a tutor — I listed the questions that are often asked of me, and the general kind of answers you want to hear. This interview is detailed, but a professional tutor should not be insulted by being asked for professional knowledge, qualifications, and references.

P.S. I would also be open in telling your child that it isn’t that he isn’t as smart as other kids but that he needs to be taught differently than other kids. I would tell him that you didn’t know this when he was younger and that is why you had him do first grade twice. I would tell him that doing the same material twice helps many kids but not kids like him. I would reassure him that you are going to make sure he learn the way he needs to learn.

I am in Florida too and my son went through FCATS in fourth grade. He ended up passing them all but it was horrid before hand. He had learned that he could be possibly held back and the pressure he felt was dreadful. He had not done well enough in third grade to pass but that was before they were holding back kids on IEPs.

If you think he is seriously in danger of not passing and your situation permits it, I’d consider pulling him out and homeschooling him for the rest of the year. The pressure on my son was so bad that I had the name of a psychologist to take him to if things weren’t better after the FCATS.

Beth

PS —

About the kid who “knows phonics” but can’t aply it — a sign of an incomplete or fragmented teaching program. Phonics is a tool, a way of unlocking reading and spelling, and (except for the rare oddball linguists among us) NOT a subject of any interest in its own right. Like the addition tables, something you really need to know, something to get down and get right, and then move on as soon as possible to USING it.

A good program and a good teacher/tutor will move back and forth between reading something meaningful (first single words, and as soon as possible sentences) and the phonics that helps you unlock the meaning. Sometimes we start the lesson with the sound and find all sorts of interesting words with that sound, and sometimes we read a story and use the phonics we have learned to unlock new words in it, and sometimes we writie something and use the phonics we have learned to figure out how to transmit our ideas to others. All of these need to be part of the program, or else it’s a splinter program teaching a skill that can’t be used.

If you already have the phonics without application, look at my notes on teaching blending, as well as on reading in general and fluency and spelling. You can use the skills already learned to illuminate the other issues and pull everything together.

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As far as the issue of what the child reads, I did oversee my child’s and my classroom’s library to remove anything I found ethically or morally offensive, ie making light of criminal or hurtful behaviours. And I check the implied messages for that, too. But that is my only limit.
Outside of that, if I couldn’t stand the book (her classmates gave her Babysitters’ Club, not my taste to say the least) I told her she could read it any time she wanted, but I wasn’t going to buy it with my money or read it to her. Motivation to use the llibrary and to read independently! Tell him he can read Captain Underpants any time he wants to, by himself.

My son is very imaginative and seemed to visualize actively. He did have some distortions on the page with letters moving etc. The private ld clinic he attended felt he would benefit from Davis. When trying to hold his “minds eye” still he felt nauseous, so they went slowly. He made quite a few of the trigger words out of clay. At the same time though he was getting Lindamood Bell instruction for decoding. We ran out of money for the clinic but later continued on with other reading based therapies. For our purposes we stayed with reading instruction plus mainstream classes to keep school interesting. We promised that we would do the best we could to teach him to read, but if he was unable to we would teach him to cope. My cousin is blind, but he is an attorney with his own law firm. He doesn’t “read” anything, but he knows how to get the job done!

I’d go lindamood bell, all things being even. An OG tutor is also a great idea, but at a LMB center you can get an intensity that no tutor can match. Its pricey however, b/c the remediation is delivered in such a compacted time frame.

Its safe to assume that a multisensory , systematic, explicit approach will help your son (meaning OG, LMB, reading reflex etc - I find them all similar really…)

Good luck!