FFW demo question

My opinion is that a student should begin with Language. It is all auditory and while it may seem easy, beginning and seeing the progress will tell you whether your child needs the program. Language to Reading adds the visual to the exercises, so while listening to say “bet” and “pet” they see the word. This makes the whole process easier because the child can use two modalities. My experience is that Language is more difficult, even though it seems simple to adults. Middle and High School is Language in a more mature appearance ( sports theme rather than annimation). I let older kids try both demos (Language and Middle and High) and have them choose which program to do. It will become repetitious, even difficult, so pick the form that keeps you most interested. FFW Reading is really a separate ball game. It is curriculum based - vocabulary, decoding, sentence and paragraph comprehension.

Hi Angela,
That’s a good description. It makes sense to start with the auditory before adding in visuals. Do you usually have students do all programs? I would think they’d all be useful, yet doing all would be much more costly.

The only reason I was concerned is because my son did wonderfully on the highest level of Circus Sequence. In fact he could hear every sound change when I couldn’t hear them at all!!!! He was accurate on every single time and I couldn’t get one. Very surprising.

The only area he had any errors with was Block Commander (the game where you have to follow instructions to identify and manipulate the objects). I could see this being useful.

It’s nice that if Language were to be too easy early on, we’d be able to changeover to the next program.

It is very good that he seems able to do Circus Sequence. While I do have some students who are successful at that game, for some their percents remain below 20 for the duration. I think that Block Commander is very good training since oral directions are so common and difficulty in that area can really slow a kid down. Since my district has an unlimited site license, I can change or not change programs and the cost factor does not figure into my decision. So, with cost figured in, I would recommend that you find out at what day you can switch to FFW 2, Language to Reading without incurring another fee. If if is at about day 10, then ten days would give you a pretty good feel for his progress in Language. In FFW 2 Trog Walkers is like Circus Sequence, but the program will go to 3, 4, and 5 sounds to remember in sequence. (like - up, down, down, up, up). Pretty challenging. Some of my students that go through FFW 1 pretty quickly go directly into FFW 2. For those that struggle we recommend a break before going into 2. By the time they get scores into the 80% range they are exhausted and if I am not careful scores will actually drop.

Angela,

Just curious, what pre and post testing do you use for your FFW students?

Also, do you personally observe that the gains are maintained?

I have deliberated a long time whether to offer it and/or do it with my own child. You just hear so many different opinions!

Janis

Janis,

I deliberated for a long time too and completely understand your hesitation. To many of those questions you’ve posed I’ve gotten different responses as well. I think for a lot of these programs you end on a higher level and then there is some drop off over time. But I do think overall you end up with some improvement. It would be interesting to see long-term test results.

Angela,

The first day we started the program was quite EASY and my son did well. I don’t know if these scores mean anything (I don’t have the provider scores yet), but he got a total score of 1746 with 582 on Block Commander, 662 on Circus Sequence and then 492 on Phonic Match.

While today, it was definitely more challenging!!! He only got a total score of 1554 with a very LOW!!!! 278 on Block Commander, and then increases in the other games…752 on Circus Sequence and 516 on Phonic Match.

Although we did have a little computer problem with Block Commander where he clicked on something, got an error message and we had to start the program over from the beginning after he already had done half of it. So maybe that’s why the score was so low. Although he was very wiggly during this game and did seem to struggle. I guess that’s good! It means it’s challenging him.

Are these scores typical from the kids you’ve worked with?

Laura,

Which protocol did you choose? (How many minutes a day?).

Janis

Most kids come to us with testing that shows auditory processing delays, although we do have kids with receptive and/or expressive language needs and others with attention issues. For kids that are having reading difficulties we feel that Fast ForWord lays a good auditory groundwork for their lessons (mainly Lindamood Bell - LiPS). I like to use FFW’s Reading Edge assessment. It is interesting to see how kids do on the different tasks ( blending, non word decoding, beginning and final sounds). Often the post testing on Reading Edge won’t take place until later after they have been in lessons for a while. FFW results really seem to vary. Some parents and teachers feel FFW made a big difference. Others report little noticable change. I feel that FFW definitely provides very intensive auditory practice which has to be a benefit, since those skills are called on so often. I did FFW 1 & 2 with my son who had considerable reading problems. My feeling is that if it improved processing speed etc. even a little perhaps it would make learning to read a little easier. It is one more piece of a complex solution to a complex problem.

Laura, your son’s scores sound very good. I like to see scores in the 500 and above. To be honest though, I use the percents to determine their progress. The points are a good way to keep a child motivated. ” Yesterday you had 525 points on this game. Let’s see if you can match or beat that!” You might also want to encourage number right in a row. We use a piece of graph paper or just hatch marks will do. Put a mark in a row for each one correct. When they miss, start a new row. “You had 10 right in a row. Let’s see if you can get more than that.” Thirty in a row on Circus Sequence is quite an accomplishment. (We have dual headsets so I can listen, but even if you don’t have a second headset you can watch for the score to go up to tell they got it right.) For Phonic Match, try to reinforce left to right and top to bottom. Just clicking randomly makes it harder to remember where the sound you want was located. Some kids really need to slow down on Phonic Match and try to remember the sound and where they heard it, but some kids seem able to do the game well even if they jump around. Your son’s phonic match score is high so he may not need a system.

Angela,

My child doesn’t have auditory discrimination or decoding problems. Her problem is reading comprehension and her receptive and expressive language scores are around 85. So she has more of a language-based LD than a dyslexic profile. She does have low auditory memory scores, but I have yet to see much research to say that can be successfully improved other than in some isolated exercises such as digit span.

I actually have Reading Edge and have never used it as I usually run a regular test battery when doing a reading eval. But I need to try it out.

Thanks for the info!

Janis

Janis,

I did FFW with my son when he was 12; Summer- 6 weeks 5 days/week in 110 minutes sessions early morning at the neighboring school district (not really that close- 25 miles drive each way, but I did not found anything better in terms of costs and I liked that he was not monitored by me). We continue with 6 weeks in the Fall (110 minutes after school).

Even though neither was a very good set up (I think working 2-3x20 minutes in two sessions per day would have been less draining), I feel he gained tremendously in receptive language. He never tested poorly on receptive language, but I think he compensates so well and we drill the phonemic awareness to nausea so his phonological processing was all over the place- depending whether we drill a particular skill or not- the SLP who tested him said she never saw such profile. What he gained from FFW was the ability to easily comprehend spoken language when it is delivered fast. This is exactly where my son’s difficulties were and FFW has help tremendously- no more “what?” questions, or asking for repetition. Not that he did not understand previously, but he was not sure whether he understood correctly because I think he compensated so well, but he knew he could not have been sure. We had CAP testing AFTER FFW and he is at the border of normal range and disability (slightly on the disability range) with discriminating sounds when delivered fast (I forgotten how this is called this skill). This is after intervention- I did not have him tested before because I knew he had CAPD- there were signs all over, so even one audiologist told me if you know your son so well you should rather spend money on FFW than on testing, which is exactly what I did, but if one can get testing BEFORE FFW you would have a better picture.

My son still has CAPD but it is consider “mild” since he is at teh border line with some skills and we already went through so many therapies that I need to choose carefully what to push on him- and he is 13 already…. Nevertheless, I never regret driving over 3000 miles to do FFW….

Ewa

Janis,

We’re doing what I believe is FFW’s “typical” protocol. So far my son is doing 3 exercises per day (there are more games on Language, but they are not being presented). I’m guessing it’s 110 minutes (?). I haven’t timed it, I just know that after he finishes these 3 games we’re told “Congratulations, you’ve finished….”

But, is this the typical protocol? Do some people do more sessons on a given day?

Angela,

I’m not sure how to interpret the percentages (my provider isn’t entirely certain either). Does that mean the percentage left to complete? So a lower score means we’re closer to completing those games? What does Schedule Score mean?

Ewa,

I’m glad to hear FFW helped your son. I know results can differ. My provider told me that getting your typical Jr High/ High Schooler to do any of these programs is practically impossible. But in adulthood they are often receptive again.

Laura,

I think Angela will answer with better knwoledge, but I think a typical is 5 games per day (100 minutes total= 5*20); 3 games is a short protocoal, which means it will take you more sessions to finish the program (with 100 minutes/day the estimates are 4-8 weeks for completion).

Good luck, Ewa

How odd. The program only gives us 3 games. I wonder if it eventually works up to the full 5…????

Hi!! The Language program starts with 3 games for 3 days. On the 4th day he’ll have 4 games and maybe even on the 5th day. After that it will be 5 games each day (20 minutes per game = 100 minutes). The computer will select 5 of the 7 games to play each day and set the levels. (Notice the one to five stars in LCB and the acorns in PW when you get there since those games are not offered the first 3 days. He is probably just playing BC, PM and CS. )Your goal is to get 5 of the 7 games above 80% and the shortest number of days trained is 20. You are thinking of switching programs if you get those games above 80% in 10 days. (it happens sometimes) The higher the percent the more the game’s speech approaches natural speed. Only do one session per day. Schedule score? I can look tomorrow, but I’m thinking it is just the grand total for the day.

Angela,

That’s a relief!!!!! Thank you so much for this information. You are helping both me (and my provider!). A new game kicked in today. I think my son is doing pretty well. His lowest score today was 564 and the highest 726. The most difficult activity for him so far is Block Commander. The others seem to be much easier for him. It appears to me that putting together language is his biggest challenge, while individualized sound is not as difficult.

I like Fast Forword so far. I think it’s a nice auditory/attentional workout. Today he didn’t squirm and complain in his seat. He actually put effort and was interested in scoring well. It will be interesting to see how things continue. Again, thanks for sharing what you know. I definitely appreciate it!!!! :-)

Laura,

I think the protocols are 50 minutes, 75 minutes, and 100 minutes a day. I would probably choose 75 for my child (that is if I ever get a reply from the school).

Janis