I’m new here, so I apologize if I’m asking something that’s been covered a lot. My 7-y-o dd has had various s school issues … it looked like possibly ADD, possibly other learning disabilities, and a neuropsych eval over the summer didn’t answer any questions definitely. As this fall has gone on it has started to seem very clear that she does have ADD inattentive type, based on feedback from her teachers (she has three whom she sees every day and who have been filling out questionnaires together) and her own sense of frustration at how difficult it is to avoid getting distracted. (Of course there may also be other learning disabilities.)
Her ped diagnosed ADD and wrote a script for Metadate CD, a slow-release ritalin product, and we began a low dose (10 mg) last Saturday. School is MUCH easier, she says, and she suddenly magically does her organizational things at home without reminding (coat on hook, trash in trashcan, teeth brushed, shoes on, etc.). But she’s gotten very pissy to be around. This is a child who was always very sweet and got along with other kids well (although she would be difficult with me sometimes). Since she’s been taking the medicine she’s become — for the first time — impulsive … flaunts my directions, grabs things from me, shouts at me (not all the time, but sometimes, which is much more than she used to). Then fifteen minutes later she apologizes very sweetly. Last night she told me that she feels that now she is too “hot-tempered” and she’s embarrassed because she suddenly lost it and shouted at other kids on on the playground over a minor dispute (whether to admit an additional child into a freezetag game). I told her I thought it was probably from the medicine, but it’s very hard for a young child to conceptualize having emotions affected by a pill. She’s afraid she’ll lose all her friends.
I’m going to try to call the ped today, but I was wondering if any of you have any advice about this side effect. Will it go away? Will it get better or worse with a larger dose (which the ped plans in another week)? I’ve already decided that doing this through the ped is not a great idea and I’ve made an apptmt with a child psych, but I can’t get in there for another month. My dd was getting into such a crisis in school without the medication that I’d like to continue if possible. Otherwise she’s fine … eats a lot, and has difficulty getting to bed at night, but that’s normal for her.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Side effects
If she is doing better in school, why does the doctor want to increase the dosage? I think you are wise not to trust most physicians regarding side effects - most are relatively uninformed, and some will assure you that whatever you report is not a side effect regardless of what you observe, in my experience. (I work with a lot of kids on medications, so I have a lot of experience to draw on!) I encourage you to go with your gut here. Increasing the dosage is likely to increase the side effects, so if she is already doing fine in school, I would hesitate to go there until you talk to someone that really knows what they are talking about. And if you run into any doctor, psychiatrist or not, who is not taking your concerns seriously or trying to tell you that what you are observing is not a side effect, I encourage you to find another doctor who will listen. It is your child and you are the ones having to live with the effects. All these medications affect different people differently, and your own observations are the most valid source of information. Trust your instincts, and you will not go far wrong!
Good luck!
Side effects
If she is doing better in school, why does the doctor want to increase the dosage? I think you are wise not to trust most physicians regarding side effects - most are relatively uninformed, and some will assure you that whatever you report is not a side effect regardless of what you observe, in my experience. (I work with a lot of kids on medications, so I have a lot of experience to draw on!) I encourage you to go with your gut here. Increasing the dosage is likely to increase the side effects, so if she is already doing fine in school, I would hesitate to go there until you talk to someone that really knows what they are talking about. And if you run into any doctor, psychiatrist or not, who is not taking your concerns seriously or trying to tell you that what you are observing is not a side effect, I encourage you to find another doctor who will listen. It is your child and you are the ones having to live with the effects. All these medications affect different people differently, and your own observations are the most valid source of information. Trust your instincts, and you will not go far wrong!
Good luck!
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
I think it is obvious that the drug is making her miserable and that is why she is acting out. They give ritalin to pitbulls to make them more aggressive.
Take your pick. You can have a happy disorganized 7 year old C+ student or you can have an unhappy B- little girl.
I would suggest that you research the dangers of placing children on stimulant medications for behavioral control.
Keep in mind her health is more important than her grades.
Ritalin should be a last resort!!
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
I don’t use medication with my child so have no expertise. But I felt really bad that “Lurker” was so nasty. It is a difficult decision for most parents
Here is a link to a board where there is lots of discussion about using medication (as opposed to debating it) that might be a better place for you to ask your question.
http://millermom.proboards23.com/
Beth
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
I don’t think a child capable of performing at the top of her class is going to be happy with average grades. of course is a balancing act between the benefits of the medication and the benefits of not using meds. And this is an issue many of us here grapple with.
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
Thanks for the comment on the lurker — I had tried to resist the urge to reply to the flame, but it’s always hard. In any event I’ve read and throught about all this enough to be comfortable with the concept of trying the medication. And for what it’s worth, she’s a really smat kid who’s not even making passing grades now, and she’s very upset at the end of a school day (or was until this week) because she’s embarrassed that she’s always getting distracted and getting redirected by the teachers. So it’s not like having a happy C student was an option open to us.
Re side effects, don’t some of them wear off with time? Re the plan to increase the dosage, that was the original plan (to see if 20mg was better than 10mg)…but the doctor is now talking about reducing it instead because of the irritability (or whatever you would call it).
Thanks for your help.
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
whattodo, take Beth’s advise and go to http://millermom.proboards23.com and post there. There are lots of parents there with knowledge of most of the meds for ADHD. You will find support and valuable info there.
Some side effects do subside ie. headaches and stomachaches. But irritability can be a rebound issue and may not go away. So either a doseage adjustment is due or change of medication to find the right one. Now that you have started this journey, you need to know all the options of medication available to you and get the support and knowledge. You will not find it here. Go to the link I gave you. You will be welcomed there and there is no flaming.
trying the other board
thanks … I tried the other board, but it looks like you have to join to post, and I tried to join, but I never got the confirming email telling me a password so I could log in for the first time. So I’ve been reading older posts. You’re right — that’s the place to be.
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
[quote:c0932b7ebe=”Lurker”]I think it is obvious that the drug is making her miserable and that is why she is acting out. They give ritalin to pitbulls to make them more aggressive.
Take your pick. You can have a happy disorganized 7 year old C+ student or you can have an unhappy B- little girl.
I would suggest that you research the dangers of placing children on stimulant medications for behavioral control.
Keep in mind her health is more important than her grades.
Ritalin should be a last resort!![/quote]
I would like to know what is nasty about the above.
It is long known that Ritalin causes permanent brain damage with even short time use.
I have a friend at Duke who is heading cutting edge research on ADHD. She is one of the foremost on VNS therapy in the treatment of epilepsy, depression and ADHD.
I think that you should be made aware that Ritalin is an inexpensive to manufacture drug that is chemically nearly identical to cocaine but in animal studies ritalin turns out to be more addictive.
There are alternative modalities used in the treatment of ADHD that are safer and more effective that a drug whose long term benefits are nil and its side effects are many and dangerous.
The human brain is much to delicate to endure the toxic effects of Ritalin.
I am not being nasty. Ritalin is nasty.
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
[quote:2d48a4066b=”Lurker”]
It is long known that Ritalin causes permanent brain damage with even short time use.
Response: Oh really? Then I guess you won’t have any trouble giving references to the research that established this.
I have a friend at Duke who is heading cutting edge research on ADHD. She is one of the foremost on VNS therapy in the treatment of epilepsy, depression and ADHD.
Respons: How nice for you, but otherwise, so what?
I think that you should be made aware that Ritalin is an inexpensive to manufacture drug that is chemically nearly identical to cocaine but in animal studies ritalin turns out to be more addictive.
Response: Again, research please or go away!
There are alternative modalities used in the treatment of ADHD that are safer and more effective that a drug whose long term benefits are nil and its side effects are many and dangerous.
Response: Where is your research. Would you perchance be someone who sells these “alternative modalities”?
T[/quote]
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
Lurker,
There are alternatives to medication for ADHD but they don’t work for everyone. We did Interactive Metronome with our ADD-inattentive son and it made a big difference. But not everyone receives the same benefits from it (or anything else).
And it is more than philosohy. There are people who mediacate one child but not another.
Most parents find the decision to medicate very difficult. I think it is fair to presume that the poster in question had considered her options with her child. In any case, that is really beside the point. The poster in question was trying to find out information on medication not debate whether it was a good idea.
And not knowing the history of the child in question, ritalin may indeed be their last resort.
Beth
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
There is nastiness here but it is NOT coming from me. Nastiness is not part of my job description.
When I last checked nearly 7% of school aged children are on some sort of psycho-stimulant. I don’t see that as a last resort type of situation. I see it as parents being bullied by school and medical authorities to medicate in place of safer and long term solutions.
Folks Ritalin only calms or zombifies children. The “desired” effect stops at about age 14 when the doping action starts acting like speed and the minimal therpeutic effects of this medication ceases. Then waht is the plan for this child who will spend the rest of his years as an adult? More overpriced and dangerous drugs? I’m afraid so.
In the case of a 7 year old not exploring other treatment options to me is immoral.
I have seen adults who were on Ritalin as children. I have seen their EEG results, brain scans, and various psychometric test results and I can tell you first hand it is not a pretty picture. I have also seen the human wreckage of these people who are pretty much discarded by society.
You may be getting the desired outcome right now but do any of you have a plan for the future?
I think if you could keep the nastiness to a minimum we could have a productive discussion.
It you are giving your kids Ritalin you are mortgaging their future well being IMHO and based of 20 years experience.
Form a moral and philosophical point of view I would have to say that your children don’t belong to you. They belong to God.
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
But you don’t know what else they have tried. And while it probably true that too many children are being medicated, some children do need medication. You have no idea which group of children the poster’s child belongs to.
And most important, the poster didn’t ask to debate her medication decision.
Beth
The above posts
TO Lurker: I am sympathetic to your views, but I think your timing was bad. This person wanted advice on a specific point, not general comments on the wisdom of the large-scale use of Ritalin. If you wanted to post on that point, it would probably be more helpful to start your own thread. Also, though we (my fam,ily) have chosen from the beginning that medication was not for us, I don’t feel we have the right to impose that choice on others. As Beth stated well, a lot of it is philosophy, not science. Much depends on your faith in doctors and medicine, of which I personally have very little, but others feel differently. I try to advocate for empowerment and informed consent, rather than trying to convince people that my solutions will work for them.
For What To Do: Glad they have decided to back it off. Sounds like a rational decision. Hope all is well!
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
Steve,
With all do respect, I have seen first hand what this “medication” can to and frankly from my own observations and from the scientific literature I can reasonably conclude that any therapeutic benefit derived from the use of Ritalin is far outweighed by its dangerous side effects.
In the case of a 7 year old girl and the dosing schedule described I could not in good conscience remain silent. Steve it may be about philosophy but I do not rely on philosophy when it comes to the welfare of a child. Instead I rely on science and reason.
If informing people about the realities of this drug and this “disorder” is a bad thing then I guess I’m guilty as charged.
Re: First week with Metadate CD (ritalin)
[quote:e3753abdd2=”Lurker”]
If informing people about the realities of this drug and this “disorder” is a bad thing then I guess I’m guilty as charged.[/quote]
But Lurker, you really haven’t done any informing. You offer your personal opinion, you claim there are facts that lead you to hold that opinion, but you never post a single, verifiable fact. If the evidence is so clear, you should easily be able to offer sources. That you don’t leaves what you have to say in the realm of rhetoric, and not very convincing rhetoric at that.
If she is doing better in school, why does the doctor want to increase the dosage? I think you are wise not to trust most physicians regarding side effects - most are relatively uninformed, and some will assure you that whatever you report is not a side effect regardless of what you observe, in my experience. (I work with a lot of kids on medications, so I have a lot of experience to draw on!) I encourage you to go with your gut here. Increasing the dosage is likely to increase the side effects, so if she is already doing fine in school, I would hesitate to go there until you talk to someone that really knows what they are talking about. And if you run into any doctor, psychiatrist or not, who is not taking your concerns seriously or trying to tell you that what you are observing is not a side effect, I encourage you to find another doctor who will listen. It is your child and you are the ones having to live with the effects. All these medications affect different people differently, and your own observations are the most valid source of information. Trust your instincts, and you will not go far wrong!
Good luck!