help .......wisc III test scores

Schools often legally define a learning disability in terms of an unexpected discrepancy between potential (defined as IQ) and achievement (defined as academic testing). When they say he does not have a learning disability, they are saying that his academic achievement is not significantly lower than his IQ. In other words, they are saying that his academic achievement is in line with what you would expect from his IQ.

Were there large differences in the subtests of verbal and performance IQ? Sometimes the average is not a good measure for a child.

Beth

Sorry but the test was actually the wisc IV. Im not sure where to find the sub test scores?

I don’t think it could be Wisc IV. I wasn’t familiar with it and did a quick look on the internet. With the Wisc IV, the scores are no longer reported in terms of verbal and performance but rather there are four indexes,
verbal conceputual, perceptual reasoning, working memory, and processing speed. There are three tests that make up verbal conceptual, three also for perceptual reasoning, and two for working memory and processing speed for a total of 10. I pasted what I found at the bottom

The Wisc III is reported in terms of verbal and performance IQ. The verbal is composed of five tests:
Similarities
Vocabulary
Comprehension
Information
Arithmetic

The performance is composed of

block design
picture completion
coding
picture arrangement
object assembly

In either case, what I was suggesting was looking to see if there is significant spread in the tests. My son, for example, scored a 13 on block design and a five on object assembly. This is often part of a profile of a LD kid. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses but a child considered LD has greater discrepancies.

WISC-IV conceptual model:

Verbal Conceptual Index

Similarities
Vocabulary
Comprehension
(Information)
(Word Reasoning)

Perceptual Reasoning Index

Block Design
Picture Concepts
Matrix Reasoning
(Picture Completion)

Working Memory Index

Digit Span
Letter-Number Sequencing
(Arithmetic)

Processing Speed Index

Coding
Symbol Search
(Cancellation)

Each subtest yield a standard score (mean = 10, s.d. = 3) based on age norms

An Index Score (mean = 100, s.d. = 15) is generated for each of the four factor areas

A FULL SCALE IQ (FSIQ) is generated based on 10 subtests (3 VCI, 3PRI, 2 WMI, 2 PSI)

Standard Score (mean = 100, s.d. = 15)

thank you for all the info. Brandon did have the WISC IV test. I just didnt give you enough info. The scores were as follows:

Verbal comprehension 83
Perceptual Reasoning 71
Working memory 104
Processing speed 85
Full scale 81

Subtest Scaled Scores
SI: 6
BD: 6
DS: 11
CD: 6
VC: 7
PCn:5
LN: 11
SS: 9
CO: 8
MR: 6

Here are all of his test scores.

How much of a spread would be considered a discrepancy? His Perceptual reasoning was a 71 and his working memory was a 104. Im not sure what all this means, as far as test results are concerned. Im concerned that if I dont know myself in what area he should be tested, I doubt that the school will volunteer any info. He has failed the last 4 years and the schools answer is, send him to summer school for 2 weeks and pass him along. In the mean time, my son is missing out on his education and it shows. I need help….

I am reasonably familiar with Wisc III but only with what I have picked up from reading internet sources on Wisc IV. The Wisc III performance index often picked up problems with motor because of emphasis on speed. In the Wisc IV, the speed elements now are a separate index on processing speed. The remaining items reflect perceptual fluid reasoning. Your son is clearly low on this but above average on working memory (100 is the mean on the tests). I am not sure what this means though. It is more typical I think for LD kids to be higher on the perceptual fluid reasoning and lower on working memory and/or processing speed.

You might try posting your question on the parenting LD board. You might get someone who knows more about this test than I.

Beth

Beth

A learning disability is based more on the difference between performance in the classroom(not performance IQ) and tested IQ

A child who tests with an IQ of 104 but is performing as one would expect from a child with an IQ of 84 is thought to have a learning disability. A child with a tested IQ of 84 who is performing as a child with an 84 IQ does not usually qualify for learning disability status.

There may be other options for your son, however.

Have you approached them asking for any kind of help? Perhaps if you lose the LD terminology, they will come up with some other options for you

Do you feel his IQ is higher and the ADHD is keeping him from focusing long enough to do well? Or do you feel it is an accurate reflection of his abilities?

And, I have to echo Beth. The Parenting a Child with LD tends to have more of the old hands at testing hanging around

Im just going off personal knowledge

mary cas is right. There may be some other sources of help if you look outside the LD box. I know one of my friends kids has received lots of help from Title 1 funds. She is not classified as LD. One of the women who posts here found that her son actually got more useful help once she pulled him out of special ed. There was some specialized help available in writing for example.

Beth

thanx for the info. yes, I do think that Brandon’s test results were probably pretty accurate. Im kind of confused. To qualify for a learning disability, you have to have a discrepancy between his iq and performance in classroom. I just want to know why he is struggling so much? Why is his iq so low compared to other children his own age? Do children that have adhd just have a lower iq than other children? And thats just acceptable? Im not sure if Im getting to my point. But I know that my son is not the sharpest card in the deck and I just think there must be a reason why. He has failed the last 4 years in school and the school system has let him take a summer school class for 2 week and just passed him on. That is there answer. In the mean time, my son has lost so much as far as education. Im so fustrated and not sure what needs to be done.

Kids with ADHD don’t test with lower IQs as a whole. They represent the entire spectrum of IQs

It CAN depress the scores, however. My son’s achievement test scores elevated significantly after medication for his ADD. I assume because he was able to focus through the entire test, not just the first few questions(his pre-med method)

Since this test was done in person and one on one, your son’s focus was probably decent as opposed to a lengthy “fill in the dot” type

I wish I could be of more help

What are his teachers telling you? What grade is he in? Has he ever been held back? Does he ever go to a special class in school-resource room, tutoring, special study hall?

Is his hearing loss significant enough to warrant some intervention? Does he have an IEP?

Has he had more than one IQ test? When? Are the results the same?

In theory, a kid with a 81 IQ is not expected to be doing well in school. And the higher the grades go, the more obvious this is going to become. The sites which predict future outcomes based on IQ will tell you that this IQ may or may not lead to high school graduation.

I think you need to meet with teachers, guidance counselors, school psychologists and talk about what they see for your child.

I do not expect my LD son to go to college even though his IQ is in the normal range. I certainly wont stop him if that is the route he chooses, but I am also quite prepared for the possibility that struggling with lectures and notetaking and tests may not be his cup of tea

I would not be at all surprised to see him doing computer or auto repair

And I am fine with that!!!!

I think you need to know where you and he stand so you can prepare the both of you for all POSSIBLE outcomes

If he exceeds those expectations in 4 years, BRAVO

But you need more answers and guidance from the schools than you are obviously getting. If they are passing him on because educationally they see no alternative, they need to tell you that.

Well, Brandon is in the 8th grade. He was held back in kindergarten. He is getting no services what-so-ever. He was tested (mfe) 2 yrs ago and his test scores were similar to what they were this time. He has been on meds since he was 6 or 7 years old. The meds help, make him tolerable and not so much a behavior problem at school. The school system is terrible as far as trying to getting any extra assistance. I have been in contact with the spec ed advocate for my area and she said that brandon should have a 504 and the school should of done this many years ago since they were passing out his meds daily. I have been trying to get him extra help for years now and they kept telling me that he didnt qualify. The school has never made any adjustments for him, ever. Now that he is getting older and the materials are getting harder, he is sinking. He struggles. He does have a history of a hearing problem. The right ear has permenant hearing loss (he cant hear s, and 2 other letters) and he has a problem with fluids in both ears. He should be sitting in front row with left ear to teacher. I think that the hearing loss has caused him to miss alot thru the years. He struggles with lossing everything and not turning in all his homework. He is so unorganized. Socially he is way behind other children his age. He fits in with children that are 3-4 years younger than him. He doesnt seem to know things that he should know. I mean common sense things and stuff like that. He really excells in sports but because of his grades, he is not eligible. I have a second meeting with school in 2 weeks. I requested another mfe and at the first meeting, we felt that we needed to get his hearing out of the way first. I did that so now the real fight will start. The school psycologist was at the first meeting and everytime I mention adhd, he just ignored me. I have heard from several different sources that they are horrible to work with. I kind of felt that myself. Just with the adhd alone, they should make the some adjustments, but they dont. They think that adhd/add is just a label given to problem children. and put in on the parents. I could just scream……..

How old is your son? Does he have an iep? How are the school systems? I hope better than here.