Hi I am a mom of a 8 yr old daughter who is haveing alot of trouble retaining information and test taking. She is now in third grade and in a special ed classroom for reading 60 minutes a day. She is in a general classroom for the rest of her subjects. She just can’t seem to process what is being taught to her let alone be tested on it. Her last tests in Science and Math were in the low 60. Studying for test is so frustrating I feel like I’m talking in a foriegn language. She will know something on minute and five minutes later when you ask her the same thing it’s like she has never even heard of the subject let alone the question.
She has always had trouble with multi-task instructions at home and forgetting where things are both at home and in school (ex. she has to be directed to her PJ drawer each night) But now she is moving up in grades and has to process this information and get it out when necessary and she can’t.
If any of this seems farmilar please let me know. I have been on the internet but there isn’t alot out there regarding memory. Thanks for your time
Did you see the Alan Alda brain thing on tv?
They talked about how we’ve been told we only use 10% of our brain, etc but, in reality, there is limited space available. I think some kids have less open space-my son would one. We had pork roast for dinner tonight-he asked me 4 times what it was-the last time I made him repeat it back-I asked 30 min later and got ‘roast beef’. Not to mention he is 10 and we’ve had pork roast 100 times already-its not like I introduced sushi!
On the flip side, he looked at our curio and commented on 3 objects having been added-and was correct. A very visual kid which doesnt help with school too much. But he can find his PJ drawer ;)
He also has been dx’d with ADD inattentive only. Stimulants do seem to help-I dont get if they open more working memory or if they filter out things so less ‘stuff’ is competing for space…but they help.
Re: memory and LD
Can you look back on your child’s records and see how she did on the Digit Span of the WISC? If this is lower then 8 it might be worth looking at a software package called Brian Builder to increase her short term memory and working memory. Take a look at http://www.brainbuilder.com/bb_bbcom.asp.
Helen
Re: memory and LD
Both my boys could use this program then, their digit span was 5 and 6. They both have horrible memories.
Re: memory and LD
I haven’t tried it myself but others on the board have thought it help. It does
not cost an arm and a leg.
Helen
Re: memory and LD
Thanks for answering me. Yes she has been evaluated a number of times regarding attention. She is on a “Watch list” whatever that means. I agree with you that there are a number of attention problems there but what do I do when the doctors say she isn’t really ready for a diagnosis.
Re: memory and LD
Thank so much for the information. As of November 22, 2001 a nueropsychologist results were 8 on the Digit Span. I will check out the web site.
Re: memory and LD
A memory deficit are actually quite rare- unless there has been brain trauma. The problem is usually in the retrieval of information- it is in memory storage, but she can’t retrieve it. Your daughter should have been given a comprehensive evaluation of memory as part of her neuropsych (visual, verbal, immediate, delay, and recognition). The recognition test is quite important, because if she can’t recall information on her own, but she can recognize it “when she sees it”, then she has a retrieval problem. She would then do better on multiple choice tests- and they would be a more valid test of her knowledge. This should be an available accomodation for her while she receives remediation for her deficits. She would also benefit from memory strategies- finding ways to imprint the information in other ways, through other sensory channels (her stronger sensory channels). The neuropsych should give you information about her strengths and her learning style, which would inform what would strategies would be most helpful. Some people are helped by writing the information down again and again- some need flashcards- some need to read it aloud or hear it repetitively on a tape recorder- some do well with making up little songs and sayings that include the information, etc. Good luck.
Re: memory and LD
This forgetting where things are and multistep direction issue are most like related to a problem with visual processing.
In order to remember multistep directions most people make a mental picture of what they need to do. This also works for finding things.
My son has this problem. One of the things I have been doing is teaching him to visualize. I got some ideas from lindamood bell seeing stars and visualizing and verbalizing. I don’t think that you really need the books to learn to do this. It is just basicly asking your child to make a mental picture of things. One area we do this with is spelling words. I ask him to picture the word in his brain and then ask him what is the 3rd letter he sees.
I also tell him that he should make running movies in his head when he reads. He is better at this than visualizing the details.
I have also used this for him when he loses things. The other day he lost his baseball cards, I said next time you put them down make a mental picture where you put them.
I have also been doing this myself and it seems to help with finding things.
I can’t say for sure how much it has helped my son. He is getting better but we have done so many things of late.
Re: memory and LD
My son also has trouble with multistep directions and remembering where things are but it is an auditory memory problems. He will be working on it in speech/lang therapy.
When I read the original post, I wonder if it was and auditory processig issues??
K.
Re: memory and LD
FYI - the digit span on the WISC is not scored the same as you would for brainbuilder. The Wisc is a standardized type score. BB is just flat out how many numbers/letters can you remember in a sequence. I’m not even sure if the digit span subtest on the WISC measures the same thing. Net: you could score an 8,10, 12 on the WISC and it doesn’t mean you still don’t have an auditory/visual memory problem.
Also, there is a difference between the short term memory/sequencing that BB does and working memory. BB doesn’t address working memory.
Yes, this sounds familiar
My dd at age 5.5 was like teaching a brick wall. She couldn’t remember the sound A, B, C would make after drilling every night - 3 letters and couldn’t do it!
It sounds like your dd has processing problems - most likely Auditory Processing (do searches on Auditory Processing or Central Auditory Processing - CAPD). Memory is a subset of a CAPD - I’m very suspect because of the multi-step instruction issue. She could also have visual processing issues as well. My dd was diagnosed with a CAPD. She also had an auditory processing test done by an SLP. Her lowest scores were on discrimination and then anything that involved more than one step of thinking - the more complex it was, the harder it was for her. At almost 6, she was processing information at a 3yr old level.
Couple good books - Central Auditory Processing Disorders, Mostly Management by M. Gay Masters, Nancy A. Stecker and Jack Katz. They have a whole chapter on memory. This book is not an easy read tho!
The Memory Book by Harry Lorayne and Jerry Lucas has some good strategies for ‘linking’ information together so that it is easy to remember. Their techniques worked for my dd although most of the tricks are geared toward an older child. PACE used some of these techniques in their program.
At 5.5 we went thru the Tomatis program and I will tell you that the brick wall completly crumbled after the program - she was now ‘open’ enough that she could learn. We still had to do alot of other programs to get her caught up - Earobics, Brainbuilder, audiblox, Pace/MTC(we just did PACE last year and she actually did well on the auditory memory exercises). At 9 she is doing great. She still has language issues, but we have never hit that brick wall again.
Re: memory and LD
Your daughter sounds like one of my son’s friends. He takes concerta and the difference is day and night. When he spent the night with us, in the later evening and the morning (before taking his meds) he acts just like your daughter. I asked him to get on his socks, he walked 8 feet away and totally went off task, it took 3 more tries and I finally had to get his socks with him because he just could not retain the info long enough. After the concerta took effect, he could stay on task and became much more coordinated.
I would find a pediatric neurologist and schedule a visit ASAP.
Re: memory and LD - EF or APD
This sounds like executive function (dysfunction) or [central] auditory processing disorder (CAPD).
Information is presented in 4 methods, auditory (spoken language), written, visual or pictoral, then there’s tactile that which we can touch or feel.
Consider your daughter from a stand point of an individual that is hearing or sight impaired. When presenting to or requesting information from your child, does she understand the information when it is presented orally or visually? When she is tested is it oral or written material? Determine which method(s) she responds to best and get them implemented in all facets of her life. Labeling the drawers on her dresser as socks, shirts, pants will provide her with cues to enaable her to get dressed on her own. The are empowerment tools to ensure her success in life.
Memory is the toughest component of EF or APD disorders. Providing step by step instructions and checklists followed up by verification of completed tasks by adults is crucial to their success.
Organizers, day planners, or PDA are adult tools that can be utilized to assist them in getting on top of thier lifes.
My 11 yr old APD daughter who cannot remember where the dishes, glasses and cutlery are kept in our kitchen told me that our house reminders her of a library. She knows there are books there and she can see them but she doesn’t know where to find the book she’s looking for unless she has a map, asks the librarian, or goes to the card catalog first.
Here are some references that might assist you. Good luck on your journey.
National Coalition on Auditory Processing Disorders, Inc.
http://www.ncapd.org/
APD Facts
www.apdfacts.com
Internet guide to Understanding CAPD
http://www.angelfire.com/bc/capd/
Florida DOE APD paper
http://www.firn.edu/doe/bin00014/y2001-9.pdf
Some of what you’re describing can relate to attentional issues. Has anyone ever considered that or checked her out for a possible attentional disorder?