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Movement

Submitted by an LD OnLine user on

I mentioned this briefly in another post but wanted to add something. I have been asking my son to do some sensory integration exercises before sitting down to do work. I had felt that it made a tremendous difference. I have also used it when he started to get annoying with his little brother; when he was being a nudge of sorts. It always turned him around and made him more cooperative and even keeled.
He does a game I bought from www.balametrics.com that is supposed to help his saccadic eye movements by addressing fixation. He has to move blocks numbered from 1 -26. He is timed. He was acting annoying so I kind yelled just go do that game to get him out of my hair. He went to do it and his time was 4 minutes 25 seconds. This is a pretty bad time for him.
He was kind of wired so I asked him to jump of the stairs, in a controlled manner, he has to land on 2 feet and not throw himself to the floor. He has to also watch and grasp my hands when he lands and keep his eyes fixated on my hands through the jump.

He was calmer after about 5 jumps, so I asked him to do the game again. He scored 3 minutes and 7 seconds. This is pretty close to his best. Just a little objective info on something that always seemed to work.

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 2:27 PM

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So how many steps does he jump from? We have tile on our floor so wonder about that. Does he have shoes on? Where are your hands? Why do you think this helps?

I know when my son did Fast Forward he used to go out and ride his bike between games. It seemed to help.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 2:54 PM

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Beth,

He jumps from the third step but he started at the second. Don’t go so high that he is out of control, it has to be a movement that is controlled. Shoes are on.
I stand about 3-4 feet from the bottom. You can also use a stick or broom handle to grab, I think it is a little easier to see and we did start with that. Just hold your hands or the stick out in front of you.

One other thing that I forgot to add; don’t overdo it. If my son does too many jumps like 15 or 20 he gets hyper. In the beginning he had to do more to find his balance because the first few jumps had him landing on the floor on his hands and knees. Once the jumps are controlled, I wouldn’t do more than 5.

He also throws the socks into the laundry basket for variation.

I remember reading in the, “The Out of Sync Child,” that kids need the right sensory diet. I think that is what this accomplishes. My son has a hyporeactive vestibular which means he needs proprioceptive input. (Funny, that I even understant that sentence.) Also, I remember reading a study on kids who have ADHD who wore weighted vests to school and it improved their attention. I had considered buying my son the weighted blanket from www.pfot.com but it is $250. Also, this activity was recommended by my son’s IM instructor, we used to use it before doing IM and it seemed to help.

Funny about he bike thing. When my son was in his former stressful class he used to get up in the morning and ride his bike. He always came home from that ride in a good mood.

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 3:16 PM

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I even understood that sentence!!! Pretty scary. My son has some of the same characteristics. He was doing jump rope for Neuronet and he preferred and did better barefooted, which gave my husband fits. His therapist told me that he knows what he needs and to let him be.

Is your son a toe walker?

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 3:21 PM

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Linda and Beth, my son too seems to benefit from moving. My oldest son has been offered rides to school every morining but refuses to take them. He says that walking to school every morining gets his mind going and wakes him up. When school is over he prefers to walk because he uses this as his wind down time. We have also noted that the classes he does best in is first hour, the hour right after band, and the hour right after PE. When he has 2 classes in a row where he needs to be still and listen the second class is usually a disaster. He is dx’d with ADD, inattentive type-what are your sons dx’s. Just curious if it is part of the syndorme.

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 3:34 PM

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My son too has been diagnosed with ADD-inattentive. But I think the movement improvements are more related sensory integration issues–he has also been diagnosed with SID. Wonder about your son too—because I think what you describe is a classic pattern for SID kids.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 3:54 PM

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Beth I do believe you are right. Both my boys seem to exhibit patterns of SID. They are both sensative to noise, they both have a dislike for certain textures, both appear to learn best after movement activities. Other notes of curiousity they both seem to not know where or how to place their body during sports. It is commical to try and watch them play a sport such as basketball because they just seem so lost out there. When the oldest was evaluated for speech in 7th grade the examiner noted that my son seemed to be confused when going from place to place. The oldest use to have difficulty with planning when it came to writing but the school seems to have remediated this difficult. Neither of the boys have ever been specifically tested for SID. My youngest son falls on the autism spectrum and I think the experts have difficulty sorting out just what is what with him.

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 5:19 PM

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He isn’t a toe walker. He loves movement though. I wonder about the barefeet thing. He never has seemed to prefer barefeet as far as I can recall. I hadn’t ever given it much thought before though. Maybe he would have done better with his feet at IM if he did it barefoot. That is an interesting idea for next time.

Another thing that he loves his deep hugs from me. I really give him a good squeeze and you can feel all the tension just leaving his body.

Maybe it is just love in the works but somehow I think the deep pressure does just a bit more.

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/14/2002 - 5:32 PM

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I think my son has some ADD but I am still trying to tease out the sensory integration issues which he was diagnosed with by 2 seperate occupational therapists before I have him evaluated for ADD. I think SI and ADD can look very similar; I almost think in someways they really are the same thing. You will get a different diagnosis from a Sensory integration occupational therapist than you will from a doctor who specializes on ADD. It is also possible that alot of these kids just have both. I have decided to go to a vision therapist that will also do body work to address the SI issues. (Thanks Beth for helping me clarify the type of VT to go to.) If this doesn’t work I will probably do more interventions that will work on his attention.

It is all so complex with so many different disciplines that have very different perspectives all of which have merit in my very humble opinion.

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 11/15/2002 - 4:18 AM

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I work at a school that includes a Foundation for helping children with sensory integration dysfunctions. There are OT’s on staff daily working with these children in small groups. Some children have an “Adaptive PE” session, specially designed for them. Some also visit the OT’s whenever they need “an OT break”. They hang from bars, climb ropes, move around on scooters, squeeze putty, eat pretzels, chew gum, or whatever else the OT’s determine would either rev up or calm down their systems. The OT’s also advise the regular teaching staff about how to incorporate this into the regular classroom. After experiencing some of these kids within the classroom before OT therapy, and then afterwards, I can attest to the wonderful results when their sensory diet is fed the right combination. I wish more schools would recognize this area of education.

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 11/15/2002 - 3:25 PM

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That sounds like an amazing place. You are so lucky to work at such an cutting edge school. Thanks so much for telling us about it!

You just made me remember another aspect of sensory diet. My son used to chew on his shirt sleeves. When he does this I have him brush his tongue, the insides of his cheeks and his lips while brushing his teeth. It stops the behaviour and he doesn’t really need to do it anymore.

When he is stressed he will revert back to the shirt sleave chewing and I will start the mouth brushing again. It is amazing that it works.

My son will tell me that he doesn’t want to do some of the things he does, like merciless teazing his little brother, but he can’t seem to stop himself. Now that I know what he needs instead of yelling at him I will give him some sensory input and I can better help him to manage his behaviour. I expect him to do his part which he is always willing to do, but I also know he still needs my help.

We really have such a nice relationship. He knows I am there to help him get through the tough times and he really is the sweetest little guy.

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 11/15/2002 - 4:01 PM

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Thanks for the wonderful tip Linda my boys do on occasssion chew on their clothes. For both my boys spinning themselves about, running in circles or darting about seem to be other favorite activities. They do not do this all the time but they will get up all of a sudden and go into one of these activities. Both boys are considered to by hypoactive and slow moving. They both shuffle their feet, move about slowly, and seem to be experts in daydreaming. Perhaps there are more sensory issues going on then I ever imagined. The school is going to look at the youngest son due to writing difficulties maybe I will suggest she check him for sensory intergration issues.

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 11/16/2002 - 1:03 AM

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Back in our NACD days we would do deep pressure rubs and trigeminal (sp?) stimulation for sensory integration issues. My dd loved these and we did them when she was ‘out of focus’. I would have her drink a big glass of water (someone on this board had recommended the water) and then we would start with her fingers, squeezing each finger and move up the arm - squeeze fairly hard. Then repeat on the toes and legs moving up the thigh. The trigenminal stimulation is a very soft, light rub around the face, forehead, sides of head over ears etc.

This was the only way we got thru Audiblox!

Another idea that helped was the Sound Health Series - we used Thinking Series CD. I have given this to several teachers as XMAS gifts and those that actually used them told me that it made a big difference in their class. All the kids focused better and there was a difference in those kids that have more of an issue.

There is also a TLP CD that focuses on Sensory Integration. Haven’t used that one tho.

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 11/16/2002 - 3:30 AM

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Deep pressure is REALLY valuable! There are kids who reject their parents’ efforts to touch them UNLESS it’s using deep pressure. You might not be able to lightly hug them but they accept a big enveloping bear hug. Light massage on the back is horrible whereas heavy pressure - really bearing down on the shoulders - is welcomed.

It always reminds me of Temple Grandin’s squeeze machine. She instinctively knew this was something that calmed her.

Some people use those sensory brushes on their arms and backs.

Another really good exercise is to have the child lean into a wall, kind of like the runner’s stretch. This provides that deep pressure feeling and can be done anywhere. We have kids in our classes doing this.

Hanging from a bar (like a monkey bar) provides the same feedback. So does carrying something heavy. We’ll have kids carry some heavy books down the hallway just before we’re about to begin a lesson. Or drink a glass of water.

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 11/16/2002 - 3:20 PM

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I tried this a.m. to put my wrap around ankle weights on my son’s shoulders. He was getting a little hyper and annoying so instead of scoulding we did the jumps I described, he was a little too far gone this time, so I added the weights and wouldn’t you know he is sitting calmly watching TV with his brother.

My son has always loved to carry heavy things. I am going to try that deep massage on him next time.

I am trying to have him see just how this helps and have him learn to do it for himself.
I want him to see when he needs this type of stimulation and either do it himself or request it from me.

Great suggestions, thanks so much.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 4:27 AM

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Linda,

I had my son try it this weekend. He first showed me how he used the bannister to swing down. Not exactly what I what I had in mind!!! But anyway, he put his shoes on and jumped from the fourth step and landed on on his feet, grasping my hand. Told me he does this all the time at school (his room is on second floor). Had him do it about five times and didn’t notice any effect but did find it interesting that he does this on his own.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 6:34 AM

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Another good subject here! My son does a lot of these things naturally and I’ve come to believe that “movement” breaks are healthy and “therapeutic.”

One thing my son really likes to do during breaks is create elaborate obstacle courses in the back yard. I’ve never told him to do this, but he just does it.

Sometimes I wonder if some kids with SID naturally seek therapeutic experiences. I realize not all of them do (some avoid the sensory input they need), but it’s quite interesting how some appear to seek it quite intensively. When my son was younger it seemed like he was “driven” to perform certain motor tasks. Even some that were difficult he would repeat over and over.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 2:23 PM

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Did you try doing it before something he usually has difficulty with? I do it before eye exercises and before homework.
I find him more compliant and more attentive.

Do you think your son is successfully integrated or do you think he still has SI issues?

It is interesting that he does it himself. “The Out of Sync Child,” mentions that the best SI therapy is driven by the child. I think I need to reread that book.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 2:34 PM

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No, I didn’t. I will try it tonight before he does his homework. He did tell me he likes to do it best in bare feet but I wouldn’t let him jump off more than the third step without shoes.

My son is much improved but I think he still has some SI issues—the liking of bare feet, for example. He likes to run and jump in bare feet rather than shoes. Good thing we live in Florida!! We were doing jump rope with Neuronet and he preferred and did do better in bare feet.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 6:10 PM

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My son is and always has been a toe walker, although he doesn it less now. He needs motion as well. We just returned from Disney world, and he went on every roller coaster imaginable. He loved it.

He needs motion while thinking. Sometimes he’ll tell me he just needs to think and then he does this funny looking skipping thing around the house. Our psychiatrist said sometimes kids with “soft” neurological signs like toe walking need this type of motor activitiy.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 6:14 PM

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As we’ve noticed before - the experts often see the child through their own area of expertise, which doesn’t take into consideration the complexities of the issues, or of the children.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 7:23 PM

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My son is a slight toe walker too. I’ve noticed quite a few other children who walk like this. It’s almost so slight you don’t notice easily. In fact, I didn’t really recognize this until my daughter pointed it out to me awhile back and I watched my son carefully. Now I’m very observant of this in my son and other children.

In addition I think my son moves kind of “airy” or maybe the best way to describe it is “loose jointed.”

All of these things do seem to decrease somewhat as my son has gotten older. Although I’m not sure if he’ll ever be good at sports.

I’ve heard that a niece of mine also toe walks and her toe walking is much more obvious than my son’s. (I haven’t seen it because they live out of state and I don’t get a chance to talk with them too often). I was told that they have my niece wearing special shoes that help with this??? I don’t know much about it, or if wearing a certain type of shoe would actually help. But I’d be curious to know more about this if anyone else just happens to know about this.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 7:33 PM

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Linda,
I haven’t tried having my son do vigorous movement prior to working on something difficult, but it sounds like an intriguing idea. I’m curious to “test” this.

I think my son has helped “self-treat” with some sensory integration problems, but I definitely believe he still has SID difficulties. I’m really wondering just how much can be successfully integrated.

How would you know if a child has successfully integrated? I wonder if this is a neurological problem that can be remediated, but not entirely eliminated. Like learning to use strengths to help cover weaknesses.

I don’t know?

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 7:48 PM

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Both my boys were toe walkers. Both boys although the majority of the time are considered “hypoactive” seem to crave movement. IE. walking to school to have clear mind for school. Neither son though can stand rollor coasters they make them sick. Both boys also benefit from deep pressure. Seems some of these things are found in our children with learning differences.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 8:33 PM

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I think my son is partially remediated. I don’t know if he can go all the way. I do wonder if as he gets older he will grow out of some. He is pretty active and I think self remediates to some extent.

I have a few suggestions for trying this. Make sure the movement is controlled. Don’t let him just throw himself around and don’t make it so difficult that he isn’t in control. Have him put his feet toghether, eyes on your hands at all times, land it like a gymnast would, try to get him to stick it with slightly bent knees on impact. Aslo, have him jump up not just forward. May want to start on a lower step like the 2nd.

I do notice a difference when the movement is controlled, I don’t fully understand the significance.

One other thing, if you really want to test it; have him start the homework, then in the middle of the math page or whatever you are working on, have him do the exercises and see if it makes a difference.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 8:56 PM

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I think the interesting thing is that toe walking is a red flag for other things. Apparently this was a big deal when my son was 4-5 yrs and we did OT. As I posted earlier, our psychiatrist said it is a soft sign of neurological dysfunction. What’s also interesting is that all of our kids have a motion, or vestibular, issue - but for some its under some its over.

My husband and I were laughing this weekend, b/c ds can tolerate the wildest roller coaster, every simulator ride (which makes my husband nauseous) but he gets car sick in the car on the way to the airport.

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 9:13 PM

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I see areas with my son where he is successfully integrated. I think his vestibular system now is fully integrated. The problem, as I see it, is that the vestibular system is the foundation for so many other things. So, other areas of development are behind because he spent all his preschool and early elementary years with SID affecting his vestibular system. We are still doing therapy that is picking away at this—working now on upper and lower body differentiation and perfecting head body differentiation.

It is still queer what he cannot easily do. For example, he couldn’t do squats upright (facing the wall). He became like jello. He can now but that was because we actively worked on it. He looked at me and asked me “how can you do that?”
I told him the truth, “I don’t know.”

I suspect that pieces will continue to come together after we finish therapy but he may always have some quirks.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 9:32 PM

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What do you make of kids that can’t get enough ‘touch’? My child would have me lightly massage her ALL day if she could get away with it. I’ve never known a kid insists on her massages like she does? Most SID kids are like you described above - they don’t like anykind of light touch etc.

Anything else you do with these kind of kids?

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 11/18/2002 - 10:06 PM

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I still think its a Sensory issue. My son also loves to be stroked, or massaged, and I use that to help calm him. I have met children who touch and like to be touched in a way that demonstrates they don’t have an appropriate sense of personal sense. Also an OT issue I think…

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 6:17 AM

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Over the years I’ve often thought my son was integrated and had outgrown or worked through SID, only to find it “pop up” in other areas. Maybe the key to this is really focusing therapeutic measures now to help lessen or eliminate future problems. One shouldn’t assume, when all appears well, that therapy is no longer necessary.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 1:55 PM

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I think you have a good point. Part of the problem is that what you need to do at one point in time to be competent is different than what you need to do later. My son, for example, could follow stories read to him. He could follow stories he read. I didn’t think he had comprehension issues UNTIL the stories became more complex and suddenly he wasn’t making the inferences he needed to make.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 1:58 PM

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Laura,

Excellent point. I had remediated my son’s fine motor issues when he was in kindergarten but I have noticed that if I don’t stay on those skills they breakdown.

I think some of this too is providing an environment with alot of chances to build on skills. It can be as simple as making sure that they pore their own orange juice, butter their own toast and wear a button down shirt every once and awhile.

I get the impression that none of us are raising couch potatoes.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 2:22 PM

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have the tests proved that his learning style is haptic?

unicorns are real is a good book and her other one too.Karen N wrote:
>
> My son is and always has been a toe walker, although he doesn
> it less now. He needs motion as well. We just returned from
> Disney world, and he went on every roller coaster imaginable.
> He loved it.
>
> He needs motion while thinking. Sometimes he’ll tell me he
> just needs to think and then he does this funny looking
> skipping thing around the house. Our psychiatrist said
> sometimes kids with “soft” neurological signs like toe
> walking need this type of motor activitiy.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 2:22 PM

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have the tests proved that his learning style is haptic?

unicorns are real is a good book and her other one too.Karen N wrote:
>
> My son is and always has been a toe walker, although he doesn
> it less now. He needs motion as well. We just returned from
> Disney world, and he went on every roller coaster imaginable.
> He loved it.
>
> He needs motion while thinking. Sometimes he’ll tell me he
> just needs to think and then he does this funny looking
> skipping thing around the house. Our psychiatrist said
> sometimes kids with “soft” neurological signs like toe
> walking need this type of motor activitiy.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 3:25 PM

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Those considering SID therapy should read the article posted in the “What’s New” section of LD Online regarding a recent paper from the National Association of School Pyschologists. The paper summarizes a review conducted by NASP of many years of studies concering SID therapy. It concludes that currently there is no research supporting the effectiveness of these therapies for most people. This conclusion does not exclude the possibility that better conducted research would support the efficacy of the therapy for certain people with certain symptoms, but it is an important point to consider before expending the considerable funds required to obtain SID therapy. Don’t shoot the messenger! I paid for SID therapy and other OT for my child and I had the impression that it was helpful, although certainly not a miracle cure. I’m now questioning whether that was the placebo effect the article discusses.

Andrea

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 3:50 PM

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That’s an interesting review. We looked into OT therapy for SID but I wanted a home centered approach with lots of intensity. So we did Neuronet therapy which requires far more parental involvement. We have done exercises at home for 20-30 minutes a day 6 days a week in addition to our every other week visit.

I know we have seen more than placebo effects because there have been major changes in my son’s vesbibular system. When he could do the tasks she gave him, he suddenly could do things like ride a bike slow, walk on stilts, jump on a pogo stick. He can learn now while he really could not before. It isn’t all Neuronet therapy—we have done a lot of other things too—but it is a big piece.

What I wonder is it the therapy that is off or the intensity. I have found, and I think studies support, that therapy has to be regular and intense to be effective. The OT I spoke to was going to see him once a week. That’s it. She was going to show me some exercises but frankly she wasn’t on the same page as I was in terms of approach. I wanted to be trained to work with him because there was no way I could afford what I thought he needed in terms of intensity. She was glued to a clinic model in which she was the provider.

I know that some have speculated that the effectiveness of Fast Forward is related to intensity rather than the treatment itself. I am not sure I entirely agree as Fast Forward artificially slows speech down and other approaches do not. Still, I do believe there is something to the observation that intensity matters. Bellis, in her book on auditory processing, recommends that Earobics be done at least an hour a day, based on current research on brain functioning. I think, in contrast, that EArobics people recommend 20 minutes a day.

My son has received OT at school and I have to admit that I don’t think it has done a bit of good. It is only once a week and I think that is the problem.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 3:54 PM

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That article was written by one person. It is not the position of the NASP but was presented by this individual at their conference.

I would suggest that everyone read the studies themselves. This is difficult to do with the article as written because he does not cite and specific studies but discusses them in very general terms. It makes it all the more difficult to refute his opinion. You have to go find the studies yourself. I have, and have found them not conclusive but supportive of SI as a real problem and therapy as a solution.
To discuss SI and SI therapy as if it is one thing is even inaccurate. Anyone who knows anything about sensory integration knows that it encompasses a variety of conditions.

It is like saying LD is one thing which we all know is not true.

The whole part about brain plasiticity was especially perplexing. Is this guy in the dark ages still holding on to the belief that new neural pathways cannot be formed? Scary!

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 4:46 PM

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“mysterious plasticity of the CNS without explanation of how SI uses neural plasticity toward a restructuring of brain structure”

Well, I have to agree that mysterious seems out of place. I think that it is pretty well accepted now that the brain is plastic, especially in young children. Now exactly how SI uses that—well that may not be documented or maybe the way OTs use therapy does utilize the plasticity as well as they could (my comments about intensity).

I also think that OT does not cure LD, as they state. That is a fair conclusion but one that does not perhaps tell the whole story. I think kids who have SID issues are often the complex ones. It is a bit like having an onion, taking off layers at a time. I remember asking our Neuronet therapist why my son had mastered a certain vision exercise but it had not translated into his reading. She told me because that is not all that is going on with him. Sure enough, a few weeks later, after mastering a related exercise, he stopped skipping words so much.

The complexity and interactions going on and the fact that development takes place side by side with therapy make it very difficult to determine whether treatments are effective.

BTW, the therapy we have done for reading purposes have improved my son’s coordination immens. I figure in the boy world that alone is worth something. Even if he always struggles to some degree, being good at sports has to help.
He is one of the best on his soccer team this year, scoring the first goals of his 4 year soccer career. And he got two A’s on his first report card–the first in his entire life! (he is in fourth grade).

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 5:08 PM

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Beth,

since Nueronet is not so easily available- do you think this therapy can be done following just a single visit/evaluation?

One can always combine Orlado visit with Neuronet evaluation (the therapist mentioned two days will be needed) I only wonder whether the rest of the therapy can be done without the direct access to the therapist.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 7:32 PM

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http://www.nv.cc.va.us/home/nvhodgm/NADSFL99/tsld021.htm

How would one identify a “haptic” learning style from the normal battery of tests?

No doubt my son is a kinetic kid, which is funny because he’s also inattentive. Not hyperactive or fidgety at school but seeks motion sometimes. I wonder if there’s a way to incorporate this idea of moving while learning …

Beth, didn’t you talk about having your son bounce or something while learning some academic (reading?) skills? Hmm…

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 8:27 PM

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I just came back from my son’s pace evaluation. It was interesting and all the more enjoyable because it was free.

Pace uses movement to improve cognitive functioning. I guess they use trampolines and balls as they work on the skills.

I think at some point we will do pace but I think we need to address some even more basic skills first.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 8:33 PM

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Like all therapies OT is only as good as the occupational therapists. I ablsolutely agree that intensity is required for any therapy.

I really liked the developmental optomotrist we just saw for my son’s PACE evaluation. He said, “If a child only has one issue we never see them. Unless that one issue is severe the child usually does ok at school but may seem a little clumsy or a little forgetful.” The kids we see usually have many issues. He also said it is like peeling the layers of an onion.

He also said that therapy was a waste of time if it isn’t intensive. He believes kids crave intensity.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 9:00 PM

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We live about 45 minutes away from a therapist so we have always gone every other week on average. I know that people do it long distance but I think you do probably have to have some visits. So I guess it would depend on whether you think that is possible. I think you video tape the exercises then which helps. And I am sure you keep in touch via phone, email ect.

If you do it, you want to do the evaluation before Disney. Disney is tiring and you don’t want that to impact your evaluation.

I do want to tell you that I just had my IEP meeting and I had the school redo the Test of Word Finding. My son scored 10th percentile 2 years ago. He scored 49% last week. This reflects tons of very hard work on his and my part with Neuronet but I know a lot of people think RAN cannot be improved.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 9:03 PM

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Linda,

The PACE activities, for the most part, were too hard for my son. It was partly as a result that I discovered how sensory based my son’s problem are. I would do it last—after you have dealt with everything else.

We wasted a lot of time, energy, and money.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 9:07 PM

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We do a lot of learning with movement. It seems to really make a difference for my son. Right now we are doing Veronica’s multiplication idea while stepping off and on a stool in time to a metronome. 2 * 0= 0, 2X1=2 ect. Before this though, he counted by 2s, and then 3’s while steping off and one a stool in time.

We also are doing some reading activities with short and long vowels. The idea is that you are truley automating something when you have to do other activities with it.

We also had him learn the continents this way—he drew pictures for each continent of something that reminded him of it. He then bounced on the ball and chanted them. 1 year later he still knew them.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 9:11 PM

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As of today, keeping in mind of course that this could always change, I think we will do vision therapy in January then possibly repeat IM then do PACE.

This a 1 year plan.

Then I probably would need to get a job to pay for all of this.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 9:32 PM

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I had to laugh at the last line…

I think that makes a lot of sense. I regret not doing The Listening Program (but your son does have APD issues) and IM before PACE.

I got trained in PACE so we may eventually return to it, if I can stomach it. Maybe next summer (but then maybe we’ll just have piano lessons) Our biggest challenges now seem to be comprehension/inferences as well as writing. So we are moving to higher level stuff.

Beth

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 6:48 AM

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It’s interesting to read what everyone’s doing or focusing (no pun intended!) on.

I’m still unsure about vision. For example, Beth, you are aware your son has a vision element to his learning difficulties because he moves his head while reading and maybe there are other indications. Linda, I think you too have mentioned obvious indications of a vision problem as well.

My son doesn’t seem to have any obvious indications. What might be a problem with vision could be due to RAN deficit (or maybe the problem with RAN is due to vision? Or maybe it’s not related at all).

My son insists that he has no vision difficulties whatsoever. Do your sons “know” they have difficulty with vision? My son describes his reading difficulty being that he cannot remember the words quickly. It’s not visual, but in his brain. (Although vision and brain are definitely related). I even brought up the idea to him that perhaps there might be miscommunication with what he’s seeing and what his brain is coming up with. This idea left him deep in thought.

Although he himself cannot detetct a vision problem. I have to wonder. I just cannot figure out why he sometimes will leave words like “I” or “and” out, or say “when” for “then” even though we’ve gone over this 50 million times! He’ll read words like “eventually.” He believes he misses these simple words because he’s trying to read quickly, but his “quickly” is slow. And usually he omits or misreads at least 1-3 relatively simple words per sentence.

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 1:19 PM

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Laura, We are arriving at the vision thing after attacking the low hanging fruit of motor planning and basic reading remediation. Much of my son’s apparent visual problems with tracking have resolved on their own (from practice and maturity?) But he too skips small words, and inserts letters into words. Usually when he’s fatigued. He does complain sometimes that his eyes hurt - he used to say the text moved around . I suspect his visual deficits are mild but real. That may be the case with your son too. An average person with this level of deficit would never seek treatment - we all have glitches. But throw another mild deficit on top of the pile of deficits and then it becomes another area you may want to address.

My son the onion.

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 2:29 PM

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I don’t know if this will help I was told by the first optomotrist that we went too that leaving out the little words is a problem with pursuit eye movement.
I think there is some exercises in the book you talked about (forget the name) that are for pursuit eye movement. I like that book but it is almost has too many exercises. I think you have to narrow the focus a little and work on mastering just a few at a time.
I think it is pretty obvious that my son’s biggest problems are in the area of vision and sequencing. Sequencing took huge leaps with IM.

His biggest problem now is an avoidance of reading because he gets headaches and he did say, “The print moves.” I know this has been said before but this is definitely a process of peeling away at things. I am quite sure his problem is vestibular/visual.

The circle ‘e’s are getting easier for him.

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