Need advice, repost from ADHD BB

I would go to the school on the next day and sit with my child in the principal’s office and say that I want an emergency iep meeting and a functional behavioral analysis and an interim behavior plan in the mean time (put these requests in writing) and you will not let your child be removed from his usual setting without an iep meeting. If this point system is not in his iep currently, I would think you would have some ammunition—but I am just a parent speaking. I would not let my child be punished for something he did not understand—or they are discrimination against him on the basis of his disability—by definition, he has impluse control issues (and what ever else you can think of). I would make a stink with the school board and the superintendent.
These rules are absolutely ridiculious and remind me of some of the stupid things my district has done.
I also would arrive with a compliance complaint filled out in your hand and ready to mail as a threat.—but then do it anyway.
just my two cents—are they giving him an education on Kafka? tell your son about that and about the book “Darkness at Noon” —about a man who never knew what he was accused of and was sent to prison in the Soviet Gulag.
tell your son that maybe the new school motto is “Abandon Hope, all ye who enter here’ ” and they forgot to tell the parents and kids. (adding some humor to an awful situation.)

I went to the school on Monday morning to get a copy of the “criminal charges” against my son. I’m sure now that the school system will be suggesting I take parenting classes, because obviously I’m raising a future murderer or such. He had been caught with gum 6 times (which is against the rules, and I admit he deserved to have punishment, he broke the rules, but what happened to the ole days, when if you got caught with gum, they told you to spit it out, if you got caught again, you had to scrape all gum off the bottom of the chairs or something) he also lost points when a sub asked him to read aloud in class, he refused (his IEP states, no reading aloud in class) he didn’t sit in his assigned seat ( he gets to school 20 minutes before school starts, this was the time when he wasn’t in his assigned seat) The teacher even told me that after that one time he has always been in his seat. He hit a boy with his book bag (although, he doesn’t even carry a book bag, and he doesn’t remember anything about this incident) And, he didn’t dress for gym (he’s 14, with a changing body)
Now, before anyone starts thinking, I’m the type of parent who never thinks my kid does anything wrong, that’s not me. I admit, all these things were breaking the rules (well, except the not reading aloud thing) and he deserves punishment, but the punishment should fit the crime. Plus, when these “criminal acts” are committed, he isn’t even told,he’s losing points, they just take them away. I brought this up the teacher,and she said we shouldn’t have to tell him, he knows the rules. I pointed out that that is true, but if you are driving down the road above the speed limit, and you pass a highway patrolman, they stop and tell you you were speeding, they just don’t take points off your license and then one day you lose them. She just shook her head.
And, the real topper, when I walked in the office, to ask for the teacher, I was met at the door, by the prinicpal, CHEWING GUM. When the teacher started telling me about him chewing gum, I said oh, you’re not allowed to have gum, she said NO!!! I said, well that’s funny the prinicpal just met me at the door chewing gum, she said that’s a different story. Yeah, is sure is.
But anyway, he’s now been to 2 days of the alternative school, he likes it, he said those teachers treat you better than his home school. He doesn’t like the bus ride, which is about an hour and a half, and he misses his friends, but he said as far as school goes, it’s better. Now isn’t that scary.

Kathy,

I have little tolerance for stupidity, and I’d have to get my kids out of something that stupid, really.

The extra hours for your daughter is absurd and I’d pull her out before I’d make her stay after school when she has already made up the work.

I’d have made an issue over the “read-aloud in class” loss of points if those reinstated would have kept him from the alternative school.

I’d get an advocate and get that IEP straightened out, too. This child needs to be told when he has points taken away and I’d have that in the IEP immediately!

Janis

Hey there,

Well am joining the parents group of being considered “challenging” to say the least when it comes to the school system.

My daughter had her IEP meeting where they redid her IEP in September. One meeting and it was set. AT that time they were considering discontinuation of behavioral services (they considered her to being much improved from the previous year) much to my dismay and concern. Yes, I always hope that this year will be the best year ever but I have concern about “jumping the gun” well in December we had the “meltdown”. ( i wrote about this in an early post). The worst part of it all was the lack of communication between adults and the fact that I found my daughter underneath a table crying. This situation she was involved in lasted 2 1/2 hours with her being suspended from school. I called for an emergency IEP meeting. They wrote up a benign behavioral plan, that I just recently found out they were not utilizing. My suggestions at that time are only being utilized in a half hearted attempt on their part, with even two of her teachers refusing to participate. Of course, much to my surprise, wrong, I am not surprised.
Again, last week we had an incident (Thursday) in which she was caught “throwing a snowball outside at another student” (not allowed, okay I understand that part). The note sent home said she would be held in from recess for “not completing an assignment and for the snowball”. Well her IEP addresses assignments and the process for completion. It also addresses the fact that lunch recess the only time of day for any “fresh air activity” is not to be utilized for punnishment. Wrong. The next day she wore a shirt to school that was considered inappropriate for what it said on it. (t-shirt a xmas gift from her father in Michigan from Abercrombie) resulted in another 2 1/2 hour incident of her refusing to remove the shirt and also refusing to do so in front of teachers and the principal. By the way, I was out of town 100 miles away that week for work, leaving each day before school, sending my two children to two different schools in a cab, I also sent in a note explaining the situation in detail, leaving two different phone numbers of people that I considered capable of dealing with my daughter for any given situation. Two and one half hours later after this incident started they called me. My solution to the situation was for her to draw a picture put her Dad’s name on the picture and tape it to the back of the shirt. Hmm five minutes later she is back in class. (numerous students well aware that she was in “in trouble again”). Plus, they pulled my 12 year old daughter out of her junior high school classroom and asked her “what they should do” she gave them some suggestions very similar to what we do at home and to call me their mother. They called my significant other who was on my list supposedly one time. He works from home, never got a call. Plus, the principal is very aware of who he is, and yes he could have dealt with the situation swiftly. He lives less than two minutes from the school and five or six houses away from from the principals brothers home. They called the second number and said that I gave them the a number to a business, hmm. Two and half hours later she is punished with two more days of staying in at recess. (Friday and a Monday). I was told I was lucky she didnt get a ten day suspension.

Now this is a kid who I believe is NLVD or possibly even a High Functioning Autistic person. Her family physician wants and has referred her to an ADHD clinic to hopefully get them to diagnose her and considers her to be mildly ADD and states that I am resistent to “medication” I actually am not but I am if I cant get the appropriate testing performed.

This child can imitate and sing to some of the best recording artists out there. She functions well at Art School. One of the Art Instructors called me aside earlier in the year and asked if my daughter had Asbergers. She is involved in sports: Soccer and Hockey both group sports, loves to swim. She can write a descriptive paragraph and or story but can’t spell worth a hoot, and her writing is barely readiable. Her math she is struggling with daily. She struggles greatly with change and disruption of her routine. Socially, she has no friends at least none who call or come over well unless I have her call and we do an outing at my cost that is, which I do and am not complaining about cost here either. She is not invited to birthday parties. On the playground she is picked first when it comes to teams but by the boys, which doesnt do her much good from the girls aspect of things. She is in the fourth grade and is the youngest fourth grader in the school system. A young nine year old, (August/1993)

I was threatened with putting her in an “enclosed one on one classroom for special education students”, by the principal. The two incident write up’s included the word “defy” in each paragraph. The principal also asked me at the last meeting if I planned on “Saving my Daughter all the Time” and my response was “Yes, as long as it takes for her to succeed”.

I have another IEP meeting (This Friday 01/17/03) to redo, they are also “evaluating” for her “third year review” at this time. The behavorial specialist is utilizing the BASE (Behavior Assessment System for Children). I have asked her if she planned on doing any visual assessment in different settings. She responded with “I doubt it”.

My daugther is an auditory learner and very visual. She didnt begin reading until late in second grade (we had a great teacher, who btw moved to another school the following year). She is also socially maladjusted if adjusted at all.

I personally believe that she did not understand “what was being asked of her when it came to them wanting her to remove her shirt and put on a different shirt”. She took it personally as if they were stating something negative about her father in Michigan.

I know this is not a very organized question or approach to asking for help but I read the above thread and couldnt help with responded for help and suggestions in a very ASAP manner.

Thanks much,
lisa

Where other district are placing students in alternate programs for drug abuse and violence, your district is racking’em up for gum-chewing and not dressing out for gym? What do they do for the kids caught up with very poor choices-alcohol, drugs, life on the streets, fighting, inappropriate relationships? Yup, even in suburbia.

Wow, where are you? Alcatraz?? Nightmare on Elm Street? Or did you really, really *iss off these people?

Kathytoo,

you may find the link to Martha Deckkla’s lecture of interest (see below). This is an address to a video recordings from NIH.

What I had found very interesting is when the ADHD boy defines what had helped him the most and it was Behavioral psychology approach. Martha Denckla elaborates a bit about that stating that it needs to be done in POSITIVE MODE- hence encouraging positive behavior and not only punishing bad ones.

I know it is really hard to do, but at least when setting up a behavioral plan for your son the school should design one with rewards rather than punishment only and you may cite Martha Deckla’s exact words to support that approach.

http://videocast.nih.gov

Once you are on the site, click on “Past Events.” Then type in the search box ‘Martha Denckla’ and then click Search. Three videocasts are listed
and hers is the third, “What ADHD Really Means…..” Then download. I noticed that on the main window they have a listing about RealPlayerOne,
which is the free player that you need to watch the videocast.

kind of a control freak group of people trying to anticipate every hole in the dyke and then trying to plug it before it even breaks through!!!

Schools get paid by the number of kids attending daily and I know there is a big stink about parents who pull kids a few days early to get a jump on spring break travel-I know a few schools who have istituted similar attendance policies in the hope of stopping this. Of course, no one is addressing the fact of how many STAFF leave early for break and how all these kids are missing is subs showing movies. Like I said, wrong hole in the dyke!!!

Now, your son. I have a friend whose son was eventually dx’d ADHD in 7th grade who went through exactly this in 5/6. He was coming home with points for what appeared to be the piddliest things(not having a sharp pencil). Mom was irate but, I have to tell you, I understood what the teachers were talking about. The boy was very defiant to adults and many, many adults had been annoyed and frustrated with him over the years. It had hurt him in ways unbeknownst to mom(no way he was getting on all-stars, etc)and was often talked about behind the family’s back.

I also had not had my own son dx’d ADD at that time, and did not understand the disorder. But, as sympathetic as I am now, there probably is also some validity to the way I felt back then as it is how the average person sees things.

This boy lost points for ‘defiant body posture’ which set mom off(what is THAT?) but, again, I knew exactly what the teacher was saying. Is it chewing gum your son is getting in trouble for or his response to the teacher when asked to spit it out?? Is he quietly refusing to dress for gym(very typical teen thing)or is he arguing and making a public enough display that others are following his lead?

It isnt always the act itself that annoys the adult but the ‘attitude’ around it.

I would insist he be told exactly what he is doing wrong when he is doing it-exactly how many points are being deducted and why. I would also insist you receive a full description via email or letter of the incident. This way, if it is indeed an attitude, you can address it as a parent . And help him put together that it wasnt the gum chewing but “what he said”, “the look on his face”. Being informed 2 months later doesnt help anyone!!!!!

And, if Im totally off base, I apologize. But I do remember this time period with my friend and my inability to address it without threatening our relationship. Yet feeling that I wish there was some way I could help her understand!

Kathy,

Are these rules and punishments clearly written down? If not then you should call them on not following rules.

If the rules are written down you might want to get a committee together to get the rules changed. Get a group together to speak to the principal. If you do not get anywhere calls to school board members and attending school board meetings might be inorder.

Helen

PS: My older son got some detentions last year and had to go to Saturday school from 8-12. He said it was kind of nice because he got it homework done and then was free for the next weekend. The V-P who handed out these detentions was something else. Turns out after the V-P left a male student came forward stating he had made sexual advances to the student twice. THe V-P finnally pleaded no contest and they now determining if he will have to register as a sex offender. He has moved to FL and I hope they make him resister because he will probably do it again otherwise.

Hi Kathy:-)

Just read your post. Sounds like school year is a bit better then last?

I don’t have any good advice here. I suppose you know all the laws by now. It is sad your son likes the alternative school better,but maybe it’s because they actually accomodate the kids? I think I might look into it.

Again,you know the laws,I can’t wait for you to get out of this district. Keep me posted,take care:-)

…

Of course it is better. Anything is better than that place. Behavioural modification gone wrong. It reminds me about what they always say, “A little knowledge can be dangerous.”

They have very little knowledge how to correctly apply behavioral modification.

Start writing and don’t stop. I honestly would not even speak to them just write to them. If you speak to them at all make sure you put your interpretation about what was said in your own words and mail it to them.

Remember when you speak to them they put their interpretation about what is said in the file.

Don’t know where in FL but I’ll give you his name John Martin Nicoles known as Martin Nicoles. My guess is he would be looking to work in private schools or other groups that deal with kids.

Helen

I have read three seperate articles about how chewing gum improves memory. So maybe they shouldn’t outlaw it in the school.- Just a thought

That’s why at my school last year when I found out her 5th grade resource (ESE) teacher who was going to take her out for her FCAT accomms. was a man, I said, ‘Hold up!”. I explained that I did not feel comfortable with a man having my daughter in a portable in the back of the school alone while she scribed to him for the FCAT. I told them I thought that was also unwise on their part.

Funny thing is the new ESE teacher this year turned out to be a woman. Don’t know if that was the reason, maybe it made them think.

I don’t think you can ever be too careful with your little ones.

Thanks for the heads up on Mr. Nicholes

Funny that you should mention the chewing gum improving memory, when I found out my son had lost all those points for chewing gum and I was lecturing him, he said “it’s helps me concentrate”.
And just for the record, I wasn’t offened by any of the comments on how it might be his attitude more than the offesnses. I’m sure he doesn’t have the greatest attitude (he’s 14) and sadly he did
inherit my knack for the “eye rolling”. But basically, he is a good kid, very shy, won’t even eat lunch at school because he doesn’t want people to look at him. He’s played sports since he was 5 and all the coaches tell me they wish all the kids acted as well behaved as him, so I don’t really think he’s a “punk”.
I think it all goes back to my complaining, but I only complained to get him the education he was entitled to. But anyway, thanks for all the feedback. He served his time and we only have 18 more weeks to go in this school, so maybe we’ll make it through.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback.

It wasn’t your actions that caused this; it REALLY is a lousy school. It has incompetant and ignorant management. Its zero tolerance thinking, ie-“if we don’t allow gum chewing, kids will never progress to drugs”. Anyone in education should know very well that there are no single,simple answers to kids. How much easier is it to deduct points than to speak privately with the kid, keep him after school to scrape gum and otherwise get involved with him on a real level? Good you have found somewhere else.

I wonder where all the other parents are? How sad.

I posted last year about chewing gum and concentration. There were several different suggestions as to why. I think one was realated to SI and the other blood sugar. It sure helps my son concentrate better.