neuro scores are in, comments please (long)

Little lulu,

I won’t try to attempt to answer all of your questions partly because it is late and partly because I can’t!

You asked how severe the dyslexia is. The basic answer to that is to look at where he should be versus where he is…he has completed fourth grade and is reading at __ grade level (you gave percentile so I don’t know the grade equivalent).

Also, my child with APD did not score low in every listening test either. (That is the danger in using a screening tool for APD.) Has your son ever had full APD testing by an APD specialist?

I do not pretend to know a lot about PDD. Looks like a kid with processing problems which have resulted in specific learning disabilites to me. And the staring episodes could be almost anything…seizures maybe? Is he by chance on Adderall? Slow reaction times could still have to do with slow processing, I would think. My child has poor auditory memory, too. But your son’s memory scores look pretty scattered to me.

I assume GORT is Gray Oral Reading Test. Haven’t seen that in a long time. According to the subtests, it appears to test the rate of oral reading (probably words per minute or something like that), accuracy (words read correctly), fluency (smoothness of reading without excessive pausing, etc.), and comprehension (understanding what he read). Someone else may be able to give you a more accurate description than that!

As to how to locate strengths, there are a couple of things to look for in test scores. On the IQ subtests, 10 is average, so any number above that is good. Information and comprehension appear to be strengths. When you use percentile scores, the 50th %ile is average, so anything above 50 %ile is above average, so to speak.

Most of what I have just told you may not be in precise terms, but I hope my general description will help you in understanding your scores better. I just took a stab at it since I was around when you posted!

Janis

Thanks very much for your input and for the input from the other thread. I didn’t know that article was there, printed it and its going in the meeting folder!

Thanks very much for your input and for the input from the other thread. I didn’t know that article was there, printed it and its going in the meeting folder!

Thanks very much for your input and for the input from the other thread. I didn’t know that article was there, printed it and its going in the meeting folder!

nt

Forgot these for scores in orig. question:
Age: 10 entering 5th grade

Grade equivalents:

WIAT

Basic read 3.8
Math reasoning 3.5
Spelling 3.1
Num. Op. 4.8
List. comp 5.7
Written exp. 3.9
Reading comp. 3.1

GORT

Rate 3.2
Accuracy. 2.4
Fluency 2.7
comprehension. 4.2

Lulu,

Having those g.e. scores helps. He definitely shows some potential LD’s, but these scores are not what I would consider severe. It is interesting how different the two comprehension scores are, though, isn’t it? I think if you get the some of the programs mentioned before in place, you should see your son make some progress. However, I have to tell you that most people I know have had outside therapy eventually (and sooner is better) as schools rarely give the intensity of services needed, even if they tell you they are using the right programs. I truly hope change occurs (early intervention with research based programs and lower caseloads), but it will have to begin with federal law, I believe.

I’ll be very interested to know how your meeting goes! If I delay in responding, it is because I’ll be out of town for two days.

Janis

If you want assistance or comments, please use standard scores, not percentile ranks. The percentile ranks mean very little, the basis for an LD placement is: a processing disorder AND a significant discrepancy. Standard scores can be used to determine discrepancy. Thanks.

He probably fits the LD category. He appears to process and understand auditory input: listening comprehension and story memory. He can process auditory and visual input as long as it is connected to MEANING: picture memory.

He appears to have memory difficulties with memorizing “meaningless” symbols like letters (very typical in LD). He probably has phonological processing difficulties.

Now excuse me here, I hope you were not charged an arm and a leg for this assessment from the “neuropsych.” This assessment leaves some things to be desired. This particular assessment, unless there is more, is LESS thorough and complete than the ones our school psych. does on virtually every child with an LD. But, yes, I there seems to be a gap between ability and achievement and a processing deficit in visual memory (for some things, not others).

Ditto: we need standard scores to tell you whether he will meet the legal, educational definition of an LD.

If you are concerned about staring episodes, I can add that inattentive ADHD types often do this.

As Anitya said, the school uses standard scores to determine whether the child qualifies. I just think parents understand grade equivalent scores a little better as it helps them to see basically where the child is versus his current grade level.

In our state, the achievement standard score is subtracted from the IQ score and if there is a 15 point difference between the two in reading, math, written expression, oral expression, listening, etc., the child is considered to have a specific LD in that area. Some children narrowly miss qualifying but still have significant delays. These kids will surely have to have outside help to make it.

Janis

I agree with Anitya’s comment about the neuropsych evaluation if those were the only tests given they usually do a few more tests then that to get a good overall picture. When my son saw the neuropsych here is a list of things done:

Diagnositc interview and extensive chart review (both medical and school records)
WISC-III and WAIT
Wide Range Assessment of Memory and Learning (WRAML)
California Verbal learning test (CVLT-C)
Boston Naming Task
Verbal Fluency Testing (letter and semantic fluency)
Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test-Revised (PPVT-R)
Trails test A and B
Clock drawing to command
Sensory-Perceptual Examination
Grooved Pegboard Test
Beery developmental Test of Visual Motor Intergration
Incomplete Sentence Blank-childrens form
Human Figure drawing
Child behavior checklist
Childhood Autism Rating Scale.

After completing the evaluation not only did she provide a dx but she listed specific strengths and weaknesses and made specific recommendations to help remediate his weak areas. The report was accepted as part of his educational record and the recommendation implamented because they were specific to his area of weakness. I must say it is the best 1200 I have spent.

Hi Anitya,

I was hoping you would respond. Janis has been very helpful too. Didn’t know standard score was the one to post. Thank you.

WIAT
Basic reading 95
Math reasoning 94
Spelling 89
Numerical ops 108
Listening comp 111
Written exp. 97
Reading comp. 91

GORT
Rate 8
Accuracy 6
Fluency 6
Comprehension 10

WISC-III
Information 120
Similarities 105
Arithmetic 85
Vocabulary 105
Comprehension 115
Digit Span 90

Picture completion 110
Coding 105
Picture arrangement 100
Block design 100
Object assembly 105
Symbol search 85

MEMORY AND LEARNING TEST
Story memory 100
Sentence memory 85
#/Letter memory 80
Verbal memory scale 85
Picture memory 105
Design memory 95
Finger windows 110
Visual memory scale 102
Verbal learning 105
Sound/symbol learning 115
Visual learning 70
Learning scale 96
General memory index 93

* Where can I find info on what all of these subtest (from memory test) mean. I have never heard of these before.

* Also, will the school acknowledge the dyslexia diagnosis since it is from the neuropsychologist and is broken down into subtypes or will this still remain a battle. According to our resource teacher, there is someone in our district who uses Orton-Gillingham and I really want that to be used with my son. Do I have a better chance of getting it now with this eval?

* I would like to be able to figure out his strengths and be an educated participant in this next IEP. Can you help me determine what his learning style is from these scores and where to concentrate our efforts for the upcoming year. He gets overwhelmed very easily and I don’t want to waste our year just guessing and trying. I want to go in there knowing exactly what I want this time.

Wow, what an impressive list. Ya know what, I think I just have sucker written across my forehead! Everywhere we have turned for help really has not gotten us much further than where we started, but boy has it cost us money.

The thing that made us really angry, in hind-sight, was the fact that the written report was not done at the time we met for the verbal report. So, we couldn’t look everything over and ask questions. We just sat there and took it and walked out with nothing.

We were told the report would be mailed to us when it was completed. We had to keep calling and it miraculously was completed the night after my husband called. But now we have questions, questions, questions. To go back in will be another $250 to see her or $100 to see the educational consultant.

She did include recommendations but no outline of his strengths and definitely not written for parents to understand, especially an LDer like me.

I really thought I would get a sense of relief after this was finished. I am now more confused, overwhelmed with info thats over my head and angry that I’ve been taken (for money) again.

AHHHHHHHHHH!

Lulu,

I’m sure Anitya will respond, but we would need to know what your state’s requirements are for the discrepancy to know if your child would qualify or not. With a full scale IQ of 107, you would have to have a standard score of 92 or lower in an area to qualify for service in my state. Some states require a higher amount unfortunately. In my district looking at those achievement scores, about the only thing I see that he would qualify in is reading comprehension (based on the WIAT). I don’t think they would qualify him here just based on the spelling score when the overall written expression score is high, but different systems interpret things differently.

I’m afraid your son’s scores mostly fall into that borderline range that I mentioned before where the child is low but not low enough to address all his needs. Looking at his profile, I think all the Lindamood Bell programs might be good for him, especially Visualizing and Verbalizing for comprehension and also Seeing Stars to help with phonemic awareness, sight words, and spelling.

Janis

To tell you the truth, I have no idea what our discrepancy is in Illinois. Like I said before, the average parent is on their own. This kind of info is not common knowledge, where would I even find that out. I’ve read through our state board of education site many times trying to answer questions. No luck! Many parents who know that here are educators themselves, and know what questions to ask and who to ask for information. I’m just guessing and getting vague answers. Do I know its vague? Not at the time.

Our IEP meetings are run like parents are the audience and we are lined up like an assembly line. After 1 hour, the next family is knocking on the door. The IEPs are prewritten before the meeting by “the team” (excluding parents) and any questions or suggestions we offer, are written down in the little parental concerns box. Every year I’ve had to send a revise back to the school because it was worded improperly.

I know the law says that parents are an equal partner, but how can you be when you don’t have the inside scoop. It is not an equal playing field. Not all members of the team are equal. Its a power game.

I’m really overwhelmed and really do not know where to go from here. The responses on the board say it doesn’t look that bad, the private pyschologist says it is bad (because its taking a toll on my son emotionally) and the report diagnosis looks significant to me.

I am just really confused and now scared to submit this to the school. But everyday is a rollercoaster. We’ll see what happens I guess.

I don’t know how much you paid but you may just want to take those scores to another neuro-psych and have her/him do a complete report. Like the previous post, we had an evaluation that was very complete. It cost $2300 and our insurance would not pay for it. BUT it was 20 pages long with specific recommendations and it was the key to getting the district to pay tuition for a private LD school. In the end, it was worth its weight in gold. We found our Dr thru the International Dyslexia Association. I left a phone message with the local chapter president and a few days later the Dr called me and we chatted on the phone for quite a while so I got a feeling for her and her skills. She spent two full days with my child. She discovered his strengths (up to this point he didn’t seem to have any). She also dicovered that his mental heath was heading into the danger zone due to his lack of expressive language, making him prone to internaization. She was the first person to discover that he had ADD (inattentive type). I should add that he had been in the school distict for 7 years and had gone thru many evaluations but no one picked this up.
I recommend you call your local chapet of IDA for a provider in your area.
Check out their website. I think it is www.interdys.org
Good luck

Just out of curiousity I compared our two kids on the tests they did the same. They look nothing alike I know no two kids with PDD are not alike but the scores you have just don’t support. Our sons scores

WISC:
Information 6
Similarities 9
Arithmetic 6
Vocab 7
Comprehension 6
Digit Span 5

Picture complete 13
coding 9
Picture arrangement 9
Block design 11
Object assembly 10
Symbol search 12

FSIQ 92
VIQ 82
PIQ 104
VC 84
PO 105
FD 75
PS 106

WIAT
Basic Reading SS 75 GE 1.1
Reading Comp 67 GE 1.3
Math Reasoning 106 GE 4.0
Num Oper 95 GE 3.1
Spelling 74 GE 1.7
Written exp 91 GE 2.1
Listening comp 82 GE 1.3

We too are in Illinois and my son qualified as SLD along with PDD-NOS. He is in a self contained class with 10 students and 3 teachers. He scored a 32 on the CARS which is constitand with mild Autism I do not see where your son was given such a test. I would go and get another opinion.

These scores are when he was 9.5 and finishing up the 2nd grade. He completed 3 years of preschool because they felt he was not ready for K at the time.

Janis is speaking from the standpoint of qualfying for services at school. Your son does not have a huge gap between his IQ (how schools define potential usually) and performance (standardized academic tests) that many schools use to qualify kids. That doesn’t mean he isn’t having a hard time—and a significant one at that. It just means the school may not help him because he does not meet their criteria.

My son has significant problems in school but isn’t that behind anymore. He reads less than one year behind grade level. If he were tested today (after much therapy), he would not qualify by most state standards either. But this doesn’t mean he doesn’t need help. Unfort. there are lots of kids like this who may fall between the cracks.

Now schools do have some discretion so it may also depend on the individual school.

Beth

The only low stuff is really in the reading range. I don’t think he has PDD, but I haven’t seen him either….I really think more testing needs to be done to tap into his executive functioning and attention skills. Things like the Color Trails test, the Stroop, Continuous performance tests done auditorially and visually, the Beery for visual and motor integration. The reason for this additional testing is to find out where he is breaking down. He is more than likely breaking down attending to visual information as his auditory system seems to be testing out higher than his visual system from the few tests that have been done, look at the high listening score on the WIAT. Much of the IQ test is verbal and they have to listen to have the information to process for the test itself. I have tutored several kids who fit this profile. They are very bright, good spatial skills and score well on IQ tests but they struggle with reading and writing and they are slow processors. One has epilepsy and the other is ADD-Inattentive.

The pediatrician and I felt he was ADD-Inattentive, I had worked with him off and on over the years and as he got closer to middle school; the Inattentive, distracted and disorganized behaviors worsened. The mother was pulling her hair out, he was not making progress in school and he put considerable effort into trying but something wasn’t clicking for him, his self-esteem was in tatters. The pediatrician put him on meds and what a difference it made for him. He made honor roll for the first time in his life, he was scoring well on tests at school, he was still a slower reader but he was processing visual information faster and he was able to attend during the class and do his homework without a fight at home and his self-esteem improved as he learned to tune in and not tune out.

The mom took him for an evaluation by a psychologist, without meds. He he had considerable difficulty with reading and processing visual information during the testing. However, due to the novelty of the situation he was able to score in the high average range. The psychologist recommended that he be taken of meds, he felt he was just dyslexic and a slow processor but not ADD-Inattentive. He didn’t do any rating scales or observe him in the classroom.

I felt the psychologist had made a mistake, he hadn’t known this kid since he was a baby as I had, and he didn’t take into consideration the novelty of the situation, the child’s ability to hyper focus when he was interested in something and what really baffled me was that the psyche didn’t even think about how he would perform outside of his office nor did he talk to the pediatrician or me as we had been treating him successfully prior to his “erroneous findings.”

Off meds he reverted back to his old inattentive behaviors, it was a disaster, he would “zone out” kind of like what you are describing his grades went way down, he couldn’t focus to finish his homework, he was very distracted and inattentive…He was there physically but his mind was elsewhere. After 3 months of this, and his self-esteem was plummeting the mom called the psychologist and told him what had happened.

The psychologist suggested that he be put back on meds! The psychologist stated that because he was such a slow processor with visual information that maybe he was overwhelmed in the classroom and when doing homework he became overwhelmed and shut down. This kid’s dad even went on meds for ADD-Inattentive after he saw how well his son did on meds…The dad had the same profile, slow processor, couldn’t pull it together in his job as he was too inattentive, easily distracted and disorganized. The Dad has been on meds for a year now and what a difference they made for him too.

I know many people, my daughter and myself included, who have a weak auditory system, but we learn auditorially. We make up silly jingles to remember strings of information for tests and we do quite well. In addition, we remember things we hear as long as we aren’t in a room with competing background noise. Do we still have CAPD? Yes, are we still ADD, Yes. but we have learned to use our strengths to make up for our weaknesses. My daughter doesn’t need to take her meds all the time as she has learned how to control her inattentive behaviors and uses an Assistive listening device in the classroom. But when she is taking tests and studying for tests she is on meds.

I just added it up and its $1850. I have two pages of report from her, then three pages that are score sheets from WISC-III, WIAT, GORT and WRAML. That’s it! No autism test that I can see. This diagnosis baffled us, the pediatrician and the psychologist as well.

Thanks, I will contact the IDA. We cannot get small classroom in our district, even though that is one of her recommendations. We have been asking and was hoping that this report would help us get what we need. Doesn’t look like it will though.

I just don’t know if we can scrape the money together to get this 2nd opinion done before our meeting in September. Our insurance will not pay for any of this. We are even at the end of the line for coverage with the pyschologist. But I will call IDA and see what they suggest and I’m hoping our private psychologist can help us out too.

Thanks

My area.
I don’t know anything about test scores but it appears your child needs better tests to identify his needs.

The staring episodes could definitely be seizures. This is 100% medical and should be covered if you have any medical insurance. Medical insurance does not usually cover developmental disorders but seizures are NOT developmental.

Get your doctor to refer your son to a neurologist for rule out seizure activity. Tell your doctor that you are afraid the staring episodes are seizures. Try to find a neurologist who also does academic testing using a team approach. Find the neurologist you want to work with before you even get to your doctor. Look through your plan and call all the neurologists to see which ones also do academic testing. Perhaps you could get a FULL assessment done under the diagnosis of rule out seizure activity.

You may be able to pull this off if you start with a medical diagnosis.

One other thing.

You may want to decide what type of interventions you want and then get the diagnosis that will allow for payment by your insurance.

I know this seems crazy but it is just part of working the system. I firmly believe that you could go to 10 doctors and get 10 different diagnosis. One will say ADD one will say sensory integration yadda yadda yadda.

Well we know if the issues are sequencing and problems with attention whether caused by ADD or sensory integration it doesn’t matter what you call it interactive metronome will help what ever the true blue diagnosis is. I wonder if some experts are capable of true diagnosis it seems some are stuck on meaningless labels. So go for the label that the insurance company covers. I have heard that many insurance companies are willing to pay for IM if the diagnosis is ADD.

It sounds like a good reading program will help your son. Get the book reading reflex and get started over the summer yourself. Don’t get too hung up on they whys of what his causing him trouble reading. The problem may just seriously be a phrase I read on here somewhere. Dysteachia. If appropriate teaching methods are used and he still can’t read then dig deeper.

I am spending my money on interventions that work and trying to understand specific deficits such as bilateral motor deficits, fine motor deficits, visual spatial deficits. These things have very specific interventions. Like the use of the dot to dot books for visual spatial deficits.
Being told your child needs help with phonemic awareness is also helpfull. Programs like reading reflex address this specific need.
You will pull your hair out trying to use labels to help you child.

little lulu wrote:
>
> WISC-III
>
The WISC scores are good in the right places for success… *if* you can work around and through the reading issues. Information tests “okay, has this kiddo *learned* the stuff he should in school” — fact type stuff. 14 says he knows significantly more than the average student (who would get a 9, 10 or 11). The other one we always look hard at is “Similarities” since that tests whether the kiddo sees how language ideas are connected — what two words have in common, that sort of hting. That very solid “high average” 11 says that even without a lot of reading (and that’s significant, too) this kiddo understands words.
Don’t be *too* afraid of the low arithmetic score — it really has nothing to do with his math skills. It’s a test of how well a kid can answer longer and longer easy arithmetic problems said aloud to him. So, it doesn’t mean he’s bad at math — it *does* mean that he has significant trouble holding long strings of stuff in his brain ‘til he has to use them. If he doesn’t know his basic facts, then that would hurt that score too — but the other low score is “digit span” which tests how well he can simply spew back what he hears.
Looks like the more meaning is involved in the learning, the better he’s going to be at it. So in a way that “solid average” IQ score is really of a bright kiddo, since the “hard” tests are what he did best on.
The skills percentiles are below what you want — but they’ve been enough for him (because of his intelligence) to get by and figure out the meaning. (Pity more the kiddo in the fourth percentile.) Unfortunately at this level, his quick wits may also have helped compensate for weaknesses that will hurt him worse as the reading gets harder in later years — years when he *should* be able to work with college prep kinds of reading.
The good listening comprehension is HUGE plus (and is probably why he’s picked up all that information). He can tape a college lecture and spend a bit more time and effort than Hannah Hyperlexic… but he can make sense of it. He can discuss and analyze — as long as it’s oral, not reading and writing. This means that assistive technology to have things read to him can be a bridge between what he can understand and what he has the reading skills for.
The GORT — Gray Oral Reading — I’ve given it often & like it for diagnostics since I get to really hear a kid read and pick apart the errors :) The fact that the rate is higher than the other scores often means that the kid has guessing strategies so he’ll read a word wrong and keep going. The higher comprehension score should be no surprise — he doesn’t have decoding skills, but he understands words and can make the connections. Since it’s an oral test, accuracy errors that would be completely missed in a silent reading test are flagged. (It would be nice if typical errors and patterns were noted in the report - were they?)

Consistently this is a kiddo with a much better memory for things that have meaning than when they don’t. (Well, we *all* do better with things with meaning — but compared to the average person, he has a bigger difference. He has to work harder to remember a “design” than a “picture” so it’s not just an auditory thing, it’s visual too.) This means that discussing things and making htem mean something is a real key to his learning — and it’s the kind of strength that pays off more than learning to spew back things verbatim.

I suspect he’s sort of a “big picture” kiddo, so saying “okay, we’ve got three sections here to learn about — how fungi grow, the different kinds of fungi, and what they’re good and bad for” can help him organize stuff.
The strong “sound/symbol” connection is also a good sign. It’s impossible to really guess without ever hving seen the kiddo in a classroom, but it could be that he does fine with what he hears as long as it’s at the right pace so he can make sense of it as he listens, and it is meaningful and connected. But he’d be a kiddo that would probably forget the third part of the homework if the teacher just said it orally, or those directions to get your homework out, get your book out, get that number two pencil out, find page 23, and just do the odd problems.
Also, again a guess w/o seeing the kid! — his problems don’t look too severe. Not good if you’re asking for help.. but really, better for the kiddo.

> Pict. Completion = 12
> Coding= 11
> Picture Arr.= 10
> Block Design= 10
> Object Assem.= 11
> Symbol Search= 7
>
> Information= 14
> Similarities= 11
> Arithmetic= 7
> Vocabulary= 11
> Comprehension= 13
> Digit span= 8
>
> Full Scale= 107
> Verbal= 107
> Performance=106
> Verbal Comp= 113
> Perceptual Org.= 105
> Freedom from distr.= 87
> Processing speed= 96
>
> WIAT (I’ll give %)
> Basic reading 37%
> Mathmatic reasoning 34%
> Spelling 23%
> Num. Operations 70%
> List. Comp. 77%
> Written Exp. 42%
> Reading comp. 27%
>
> I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FOLLOWING SCORES MEAN
> Reading comprehension
> (GORT)
> Rate 25%
> Accuracy 9%
> Fluency 9%
> Comprehension 50%
> SRQuo 21%
>
> MEMORY AND LEARNING TEST
> story memory 50%
> sentence memory 16%
> #/letter memory 9%
> verbal memory scale 16%
> picture memory 63%
> design memory 37%
> finger windows 75%
> visual memory scale 55%
> verbal learning 63%
> sound/symbol learning 84%
> visual learning 2%
> learning scale 39%
> General memory index 32%
>
> I am confused also with how he can have good listening
> comprehension by auditory processing deficits. Also, how to
> determine what severity level the dyslexia diagnosis is. To
> me, his problems seem very overwhelming. Don’t know where to
> start. Her recommendations focus on diagnosing the staring
> episodes (good idea) and the auditory training. I don’t know
> how to decifer what to do for him at school regarding the
> dyslexia. It seems like so much to handle. Would you
> consider this mild, moderate or severe?
>
> And also, was not given an explanation of strengths. How
> would I figure that out from these scores.

Unfortunately “not bad” as far as numbers on a paper go doesn’t mean “not bad” if school is a daily wearing down of your inner self - and he’s got enough going on so that he may really feel the constant difference between what he wants to be able to do (be really successful and understand what’s happening) and what he can do. And unfortunately perceptions matter more than reality — if he *thinks* he’s not doing well, he’ll interpret things in that light. (Sort of like the way people who’ve been abused will assume a neutral face is angry.) And *every* time he’s got to read soemthing, and he’s got to fight with it to figure it out, he’s probably feeding that “I’m Stupid” monster. Tell him it’s a nasty lying little monster and you can prove it… and help him get better at that reading stuff.

Yes, your child has at least average intelligence and low reading,the Gray Oral Reading Test shows he decodes as well as 9 out of 100 children his age(91 out of 100 score higher) skills, but the diagnosis of PDD or ADD includes an eval. of developmental history, language skills, attentional skills, adaptive living and social interactional skills. These are impossible to know from ed.testing scores. Are you concerned about his social interactions, attention, ability to get along with peers(5th graders are pretty independent kids), flexibility in social situations? Perhaps you could pursue your remaining concerns with another provider?

thanks for your reply. yes all of that was included, just didn’t want to bore everyone with history.

teachers are saying attention,organization. school and parents believe social skills are his strength. he is involved in all sports, can follow game, strategize, follow rules, etc.

the only concerns we told her about were the attention, which is situational (around homework) and very low tolerance for frustration, has explosive outbursts (at home only) when he just can’t take anymore. at school, its tears and shuts down. behavior is generally good and cooperative. prefers to be with or around others (does not like to be left alone for extended periods of time). no hyperactivity, he’s a pretty normal kid except for the emotional toll that his academic failures are causing him.
grades on report cards are Cs, when i go through daily work papers he averages Fs (pretty curious) but there are some good grades sporadically.

minor sensory things, has a fairly limited selection of foods he will eat. only odd thing is he can eat an entire stack of pancakes dry (no syrup) because he doesn’t want to get sticky.

as far as the attention goes, we think he shuts down when he gets overwhelmed. he does get overwhelmed easily which leads to frustration and anxiety, usually ending in a meltdown.

don’t think these things spell out PDD, do you?

I don’t think I have ever heard of this. Just curious!

Sue,
I learned more from you in the couple of minutes that it took me to read your reply than the 2-hour oral report from the neuropsychologist. All I can say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU. Your insight is valuable info to me and is much appreciated! I’ll put a check in the mail for ya!

PDD is Pervasive Development Disorder and it is on the Autism Spectrum. These children basically have difficulty relating to and interacting with the world around them.

I agree 100% and this is what’s eating me up inside. Watching him fail and he is bright enough to realize what is going on and it is beating him down. I’m trying to get answers to help him instead of just guessing, but I just keep hitting the dead end.

Now, after reading these posts (which have been extremely helpful) I really fear submittig this to the school. They haven’t been doing enough as it is, now what will happen to this little guy when they tell me his scores are too good to get help now.

I’m afraid that I’ve backed us up into a corner that’s going to cause us even more distress come Fall.

I just think that if he could get a taste of success, we might be able to tackle the self-esteem.

Thanks again for your kind words of encouragement and understanding.

I am baffled too, so is the pediatrician and the psychologist. They want to read the report and then speak to her about it. So it should be interesting.

I was wondering how it has worked out for you? Does having the PDD label change things within the school as far as getting what you really need. Does your son still fall under the specific learning disabilities or autism? And did you get your diagnosis through the school or outside?

Is the school very cooperative with you or do you fight the same battles. I’m just trying to sort out whether its A) Me (not understanding everything) B) the school or C) the state (Illinois regulations and board of ed)?

Any opinions?

If your son has good social skills he can’t be pdd. I guess that is where the atypical part comes in . Atypical PDD oh please. Like PDD isn’t vague enough. So I guess Atypical ADHD would be a child that had ADHD but is excellent at paying attention and isn’t really all that hyper.

Sorry for making light of this but I think that “diagnosis” borders on malpractice.

Here is something written by someone in the field who actually gets it.

http://.autism.org/pdd.html

You don’t have to share this report with the school. I guess I wouldn’t, if you don’t feel comfortable with its conclusions. I certainly wouldn’t want my child to have a label that is not accurate following him around at school (he has enough that are accurate!!).

Beth

Was this testing very different from what the school has done in the past? I would ask to meet with the evaluator once again, even if it means spending more money; come with your questions written out, and a copy of this person’s report in hand. It sounds like your concerns are in the realm of psychiatry, or neurology…try going through your pediatrician, ADHD is a medical diagnosis, as are depression, anxiety, etc. More testing doesn’t always shed more light on the problem. If this testing is going to help him qualify for spec. ed. services(ie in reading), then meet with the school and share the ed. testing. The moral of the story is to ask ahead of time what tests will be done, why they were chosen and what information can(and can’t) come from each test.I personally would not pay an outside evaluator to do IQ testing that schools easily can do(and do routinely on lots of kids) unless the past results were very far from what I expected.

My son is served through the OHI category at school since one of his dx is PDD-NOS and they dont place that under the Autism category here. I must admit though the school district we are in is one of the better ones. My son is in a self contained LD class with 10 total students. There is a main special ed teacher, an aide, a speech pathologist and social worker. The latter two are only in the classroom part time. They work with the students as a group and they all get pull out services. My son gets 1 to 1 speech for 30 minutes a week plus 30 minutes of 1 to 1 with the social worker. The students are broken down into groups of 3 and receive 30 minutes of group speech and 30 minutes of social work services. He also receives 1 to 1 reading services since even compared to the LD class his reading skills are behind. He started 3rd grade at a K reading level and ended with a 2.2 level. He is currently in summer school 3 1/2 hours a day 5 days a week and they work on the 3 R’s. I have noticed a huge difference in my son since we got to this district. It is strange that we are both in Il and have such a different experience with getting services. We had a really hard time getting the right services for our boys when we were in ND and it has been easy now that we are in IL. To answer your other question we were guided towards a corrects dx when we were ND by my sons pre-school teacher (who mystericially got reassigned after advocating for students). The actual dx though came from a multidisciplinary evaluation consisting of a developmental Peditrician, Speech Language pathologist, audiologist, and child psychologist. It was recently confirmed this year by a nueropsychologist who said that if it werent for his language delays he would better fit the Aspergers label as he is high functioning. I do agree with the dx he has poor eye contact, poor use of social language to include non verbal communication, must adhere to routines, loves spinning objects, his speech is perservitive when stressed, ect, ect. The nuerologist said if you were to dx each thing seperate it would be: add, inattentive; sensory intergration dysfunction, dyslexia, CAPD, language d/o, ect. It is much easier to say PDD since it comprises sx’s from all of these. She also went on to state she really don’t believe in labels and that is why in her reports she outlines strengths, weaknesses, and what to do about them. She was great. Hope this answers some of your questions.

What does Perservitive speech refer to? My son has not been dx as aspergers although he does have some of the qualities in mild ways. I’m not familiar with this attribute and am curious b/c he does have some quirks in his speech as well. Thanks.

I didn;t read what others said so forgve if I am redundant. Auditory comprehension and auditory processing are different animals. One can understand the main idea of what was said but have missed words by using context cues. Auditory processing would mean that a word might be heard with an incorrect sound (cat might be heard as bat), or the sounds might not be sequenced correctly (cat could be tac), which is common with dyslexia. Auditory processing is at the sound level for the most part. It can involve rote auditory memory but it does not involve making sense in terms of meaning of what was heard in and of itself.

Have you ever heard of sensory integration dysfucntion? It often goes along with PDD, what social charactreristics or difficulties led to the PDD diagnosis, I didn;t see you mention too many? It almost suond like you want an occupational therapy evalaution done with someone who does a test called the SIPT , yu can go to the american occupational therapy association website and find a SIPT certified OT I think. It appears you are dealing with some SI issues and some sequencing issues causing the “PDD” issues.

The child will repeat the same words are pharses over and over.