Newbie Question...

Just came back from IDA conference, and in one of the sessions it was stated ADHD symptoms that are evident by the age of five are due to ADHD, symptoms that come after entrance into school are usually due to dificulties with learning.

YOu’re getting to see firsthand what our schools do to LD kids. Frustrate them and then decide they’ve got a disorder. If he only has trouble paying attention at school, odds are excellent taht it is a *school* problem, not an attention problem. A true chemical imbalance doesn’t come and go — and there are myriad reasons for the mind to struggle to pay attention to something that are *not* adhd but look exactly like it.
Could be as simple as being in a different room with something he’s sensitive to — or… is he going through the unlovely process of wondering if that Sped label means he’s really not as good as otehrs (how much teasing is he getting from others?)… so maybe he *is* a bad kid… be generous with mental health days!

I think ADHD-Inattentive kids don’t get noticed earlier because they are generally sitting there quietly being the good kids. These kids aren’t causing the teacher a problem. And frankly, they get ignored. I also think the hyperactivity component of ADHD is well-known, quickly calls attention to itself, and creates a more significant problem for the teacher. The inattentive component is not well-known, isn’t as readily observable, and impacts the child’s learning ability more than it impacts the teacher.

If it’s truly ADHD you will see some aspect of it at home as well. We could see it every time our son tackled a homework assignment. Even when he was really trying he couldn’t consistently direct his attention to the next word in the sentence he was writing or the next column in the multiplication problem. He took 4 times longer to do any task because he repeatedly found distractions everywhere from pencils to eraser dust.

I would proceed with the ADHD testing with an open-mind. Evaluate what is happening at home objectively. Part of the criteria for ADHD is that the symptoms must be pervasive, meaning they must exist in both school and home settings. If it’s not happening at home, they can’t call it ADHD.

Our son is both LD and ADHD-Inattentive. Because of the LDs, I didn’t recognize the ADHD-Inattentive aspect until he was nine. Once he got the medication for the ADHD, his life really turned around and the remediation for the LDs finally started to help.

The behavior changes in 3rd grade could be occurring because the curriculum changes from “learning to read” to “reading to learn.” This is when they realize that they aren’t doing as well as other kids and their self-esteem plummets.

Thanks for the response! While my son has always been a busy guy, it’s never been to the point of disrupting our lives. I guess he could be borderline, but aren’t we all sometimes?! He never said he was stupid when he was in remedial reading in 1st & 2nd…never said anything about the kids saying, “You can’t read! Why bother?” I want to go to the teacher about it, but my son doesn’t want me to. It’s like, “If I tell you this, will you promise not to tell so-and-so?” I don’t feel like I can break his trust. I guess he’ll ask for my help if he needs it :)
He also seems to need more 1 on 1 from me with homework now. He won’t even do his math alone like he used to. I have to be with him every second. Read a transcript of Rick Lavoie that touched on Learned Helplessness…Is this what my child has been reduced to?
Sorry so long-winded …. thanks again!

I wonder about ADHD inattentive type. My brother is exactly as you described, he would sit quietly in class because he realized he could be as quiet as mouse and the teacher would not call on him. The school attributed this to ADHD inattentive, or back then it was ADD.

Well it turns out, his problems were from a severe auditory processing disorder, almost to the point where he seems hearing impaired. When you talk to him, he sometimes doesn’t hear you are hears something so off the mark that his answers makes people think he wasn’t paying attention. Then comes the ADHD inattentive, get medication diagnosis.

This year at age 14, is the first year he is actually receiving instruction designed to accomodate his APD and he is a B student. Maybe if the school has looked further into his needs, he wouldn’t be 14 having to learn 3rd grade reading skills!

I am not disputing that many kids have true ADHD, but many do not. Furthermore, many develop attention issues because they are not getting the proper services. If an adult took a job as a data entry clerk and then the boss asked them to write computer codes to start creating computer programs but the boss said, “We aren’t going to teach you how to do it, you must figure it out on your own” Although, you have the ability to say “Ah, no, you need to teach me, I don’t understand” Just think of how frustrated you would be, sitting in front of a computer, trying to understand a langauge that no one explained!!

Sorry, just a little rant!!

I would investigate all options, review whether or not your child is getting enough services and if they are the right type for his or her disability. That was another problem we had, not only did we have the wrong diagnosis, the school provided a reading program that, we later learned, was horrible for dyslexic, APDers!

K.

aj -
When you say “ADHD-Inattentive”, does this mean in some cases they’re more inattentive than hyperactive at first, then the H manifests itself as they get more frustrated due to the LD? He’s just so much more distracted with his work this year…can’t be anything on his desk while working or he’s playing with it. As I said earlier, I know he has syptoms, I just wish there were other meds available that weren’t so harsh. I have a 13 yr old that’s been on Paxil for over a year, so I know meds can be life-changing … of course I worry about that too!

K. -
Until very recently I had never heard of APD (or alot of things, for that matter!) and until your post, I hadn’t really thought about it. But my son does that too. (people are gonna read this & say “oh great! this woman is grabbing at everything!) But he comes up with some off the wall stuff, like when his brother & I are talking in the car & he responds & we both think “Huh???”
We haven’t gotten a true diagnosis of Dylexia … only “tendencies” but they tell me he would be using the same Stevenson Reading even if he were diagnosed.

Is pulling him out of school to get his skills & self-esteem back on track an option?

mom93 -

What I mean is that a child can be diagnosed as ADHD - inattentive without any evidence of hyperactivity. That is because there is a completely separate diagnostic component for ADHD based solely on inattentiveness/distractability. They are inattentive because their mind is running on to something else, and doesn’t stay focused on the task at hand.

Here is the link to the diagnostic criteria: http://lib-sh.lsumc.edu/fammed/intern/adhd.html

K. has a very valid point. Sometimes an auditory processing disorder can have similar manifestations. I’ve also seen statements that sleep apnea and even giftedness can lead to some of the same issues. You are doing the right thing to research other possibilities.

But watch him during homework time. If these are homework tasks he knows how to do (meaning he can’t have misheard the directions), can he do them without his attention repeatedly drifting off? Can you get him to brush his teeth without telling him 5 times? What about his shoes? With our son, the older he got, the more distractible he got. I just kept thinking it can’t be ADHD because there was no hyperactivity (like our older son), but when I finally read the DSM-IV criteria I realized it was time to check it out.

Do you mean homeschool?

aj-
Thanks for the link. He appears to be more inattentive & impulsive than hyperactive. His teachers say he gets out of his chair inappropriately, but with us, he sits through church, even tho he’s not listening :) he doesn’t get up & run around at resturants, things like that.
As for homework, he’s much less attentive with reading, writing, spelling … his problems areas, than he is with math, because he gets it.
I know many things point to ADHD & that’s why I agreed to let the school set up the appt. I’m just another worried mom & I want to do the right thing by both my boys.
I’m so glad to have found a couple of bb’s for support! Thanks all!

I had the same concerns with my brother and son. At home, he both the kids can sit and do their homework quietly and independently (my six year old needs me to read directions but otherwise completes assigments without my help) That is what made start to wonder.

Then at my brother’s open house, every teacher mentioned that they do not see any of the signs of inattentivness. A couple of teacher noted that he will at times put his head on the desk, which he admitted to me last night, is something he does when he doesn’t understand the work in front him. So then I start to wonder if the teachers are aksing him if he understands when they see him doing this, or just punishing him. As for my son, I see the teacher twice a day, because it is s small private school, I see her when I drop him off in the morning and in the afternoon to pick him up. She has never noted any attention problems and said he is always on task and paying attention, however, I should add they are not your typical school, he only has 7 other kids in the class, so the kids get lots of attention.

Anyhow, I am a little biased as I mentioned before because the local school district diagnosis practically every child with ADHD!! I am amazed at how many parents from my district that I meet who don’t know otherwise and just take what the school says as the word of law!

K.

Another thing that concerns me, is how many different tests will be required to get to the heart of the matter? The school has done their assessment, the ADHD test is in early Jan., in the process of finding out about Dyslexia, etc. What about APD? What about other syptoms? I’m so confused right now, I can hardly keep it all straight. My desk is piling up with notes from the things I’ve read & it seems the more I read, the crazier I get.

Well, just thought I’d add that neither of my children could ever sit through a church service or sit quietly at a restaurant. (They’d more likely be found under the pew or under the table.) They haven’t gone to church since one of them yelled out in the middle of the service, “This is SO boring!”

It just doesn’t sound like a strong case for ADHD to me, but I am just another mom. I feel that if you can watch the situation as objectively as possible, over time you will know in your heart if there really is or isn’t an attention problem. You both would be miserable during homework time, and it doesn’t sound like you’re quite there yet.

I wish I had an answer for you as to what testing to pursue. I was never sure myself. I always felt I probably should have pursued the APD testing, but I poured our financial efforts into private tutoring for the LDs instead.

Can anyone give us a checklist for APD testing? What symptoms would make a child a candidate for APD testing?

aj-
I know there aren’t any cut & dried answers … wish there were! I just appreciate the feedback. I’m not saying I don’t get aggrevated during homework, it’s just totally different from his older brother & it’s new to me. Some days are a bit more difficult, but we don’t spend hour upon hour getting it done. I mean he wouldn’t be a normal kid if he wouldn’t rather play Xbox with his brother than do homework! :)
Speaking of church, 2 weeks ago, I actually let him sit with 2 of his buds & their Grandma … even tho they whispered some … that’s pretty normal to me. I certainly have hopes that all will be ok. I just want to be able to concentrate on the dyslexic “tendencies” & move on.
Hoping to hear more responses on the APD testing.

Mom93,

If you go over to the Teaching Students w/LD there is a big conversation about APD v. ADD which I had with Janis (who, BTW, is awesome and really knows her stuff). She is a professional and a mom with an APD daughter, I believe.

We discussed the APD v. ADD diagnosis and how they can “mimic” each other. After the discussion, I have come (and she has as well) to the conclusion that my daughter is more ADD (not H) than APD. Though actually has both.

We remediated, spent alot of money and she improved, but still couldn’t stay on task, at school, at home, at homework time, couldn’t go into a room to brush her teeth without getting distracted. She went on meds and it was close to miraculous.

I suggest you “talk” to Janis. She is always willing to discuss things with parents who are searching for the right answers for their child.

Good luck

And there is an “Inattentive after 6” thread in the Parenting an ADHD board from Beth from FL. Has 5 things to look for that might indicate APD.

They were interesting. Some because they could just as easily be caused by ADHD, and others because I see them in my son.

Most interesting for me was Item 2. Sensitivity to noise, which my son has had to a high degree since infancy.