Serotonin and Autism

I assume by anti-depressant you mean SSRI…

Temple Grandin swears by her use of SSRI’s, and in fact has dedicated almost 25% of her book “Thinking in Pictures” to the topic (as well as nearly half of the presentation I saw her give a year ago). She takes a dose far lower than most drs. would prescribe.

I have not read more than a couple testimonials from parents which reported good results using SSRI’s with their children on Spectrum. there is always a possibility of reporting bias however - if your child responds well to a medication, you are far less likely to be active on the message boards and email lists I frequent, which for the most part are filled with parents still looking for answers.

I am curious however… this is the first time I have heard that a self-stimulating activity would increase serotonin levels. If that is true we should not need SSRI’s at all, only trampolines, rockers , etc. Gonna turn the medical world on its end with this bit (and really hurt Lilly et al hard in the wallet as well…)

If you decide to try SSRI’s, be aware that you must wean off if they are not working as anticipated. Also, recall that there is a higher rate of aggression and sucide risk in children taking these than in adults. Watch your child closely and keep the dosages low.

Have you tried the Diet or have you tested for elevated metals?

How would this be different than stimming?

Laura, I didnt know you were thinking autism-is this new?

Rocking makes me nervous. Working with the little ones, we worked so hard to get them to STOP lying on the floor watching wheels of a toy car or sitting and staring at fan blades

I would worry that rocking would lull him, not invigorate him

Now jumping on a tramp? OK, to me thats exercise -and stimulating -and I have seen autistic toddlers become verbal while being bounced on a therapy ball or helped to jump on a tramp

So, I guess it makes some kind of sense. That bouncing is doing ‘something’-perhaps serotonin is the ‘something’. I know the OTs cant explain it-they just know it works

I would definitely keep it active though-JMO

Dad and Marycas,

Some of what the neurologist said didn’t make sense to me either.

The only thing I can guess about stimming being a type of serotonin seeking behavior is that it’s not necessarily the lack of serotonin that’s the problem but maybe metabolizing it (?). According to the research data I did come across, people with autism have high levels of serotonin in the blood stream. The problem may be their body just isn’t using what’s there.

I did read about the diet, but we haven’t tried it. My biggest concern right now is seizures so I’m focusing more on that. I also wonder if it’s too late (if there’s a connection, the damage is already done). Although, interestingly, I happened to correspond with a doctor at John Hopkins University who’s doing a study using the Atkins diet with children who have failed at least 2 meds and have daily seizures. Also, there’s the Ketonic (sp?) diet. It seems coincidental to me that there are a lot of similar diets for these varying conditions. Although the neurologist did say that 30% of people with autism also have seizures.

I currently am not planning to try SSRI’s. Instead I may try some natural sources (L-tryptophene, 5-HTP, etc…) . Although if the problem is that the body isn’t able to utilize what’s already there, then this might be a waste of time. I told the doctor I wouldn’t consider trying medication until after the EEG. My biggest concern is seizures and that was the only reason I went to see this doctor in the first place.

I did not go there to talk about autism or if my son even has it. So it was a little aggrevating that the doctor spent so much time talking about this. My son has not been officially diagnosed with autism. The last neuropsych verbally commented that he seems to have HF autism, but she wouldn’t commit to a written diagnosis (she didn’t want to label him!). So I’ve always considered him having some autistic traits, but not completely fitting into the category. At the end of our appointment this neurologist told me that my son wasn’t just “mildly” autistic, but she considered him more “severely” autistic. Sometimes doctors (and other professionals) can be so FRUSTRATING!!!!

If you look at the food preferences of MOST autistic kids, dairy and wheat are biggies

I cant tell you how many toddlers with autistic tendencies CRAVE goldfish crackers-I dont mean they just like them, I mean theyre up in the middle of the night on top of the counter for them

I know Ive asked about carbs before and several of our “lean towards teh spectrum’ kiddos seem to eat a lot of carbs. Blake seemed to live on bread and milk as a preschooler

INterestingly enough, his doing well in school this year has coincided with puberty which has coincided with greater protein intake.

Upping protein is certainly one of the less invasive things to try

Re: the doctors. I look at the experts as people who give suggestions and myself as the expert. You get this way after hearing so many different things over the years

[quote:dde8cf9b7f=”Laura in CA”]Dad and Marycas,

I currently am not planning to try SSRI’s. Instead I may try some natural sources (L-tryptophene, 5-HTP, etc…) .[/quote]

You might want to read this article before trying 5-HTP. Just because it is “natural” does not mean it is risk free.

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8513/31402/350470.html?

Here is another article on 5HTP from the UC Berkley Wellness letter.

http://www.wellnessletter.com/html/ds/ds5HTP.php

I find it interesting that people are more comfortable with using supplements that have rare but quite dangerous side effects but shy away from using prescription medications with rare but quite dangerous side effects. Why is that?

It is a complex issue based upon perception.

Most of the information we get about supplements comes from friends, relatives, other parents etc. who very often have had good experience with them (melatonin comes to mind; there are multiple other examples one could choose).

Drugs on the other hand are sometimes perceived to be the products vigorously marketted by greedy corporations using corrupt Federal “regulators” to promote a one-sided, and self-serving biased presentation of safety and efficacy to doctors who have become less interested in serving individual patient’s best interest than in perpetuating the corporate takeover of the Western world (the SSRI debacles fit nicely into this; I could list others).

The main problems with herbal remedies are natural does not automatically equate to safe, the protocols for use are very often unproven and sometimes without merit, there is no potency regulation making accurate dosage near impossible, there is little thought of interaction, and we have almost no mechanism in place to counter overdose/adverse events.

The main problems with medications is negative perceptions listed above has more than a kernel of truth to it (although not as bad as some would fear), we have developed an “assembly-line” medical practice where HMO’s pressure doctors to make quick presctiption practices to save expenses on “unnecessary” tests, we have developed a societal “hypochondriac” mentality where better living is too often thought to come from a bottle of pills rather than make more difficult lifestyle adjustments and media soueces alternate between singing praises for “breakthroughs” and playing chicken little at the first sign of trouble, exposing the public to quasi-scientific information most cannot possibly comprehend.

There can be little doubt that modern medicine has performed incredible miracles on broad scales which is best evidenced by the incredible reductions in infant and maternal mortality rates as well as extending the anticipated life span by over a decade in the last 70 years. And there can be little doubt that natural “remedies” hold a great deal more promise than the Corporations want us to know or that the entrenched heirarchy of medicne will admit to.

As with nearly all things, the substances you choose to ingest to make your life better must be evaluated on a case by case basis, and major decisions need to be made utilizing competant medical personnel as a primary reference. Blind faith in anything can and sometimes does lead to problems.

Laura,
Somewhere along the line I’ve missed the fact that your son was having seizures. I’m sorry you have to deal with this now, and I hope you find some answers soon.

One of the other boards I frequent has a number of parents discussing supplementation for their children ( who happen to have tourettes, but that doesn’t matter. ) You may find some additional information there:
http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=f138b60a40e9fef6c8fe369a3dcd7441&f=253

good luck.

All I can tell you is my personal experience. One of my best friends has a little boy on the spectrum at age 10. They knew something was wrong early on and took him to Duke University at about age 3. The child had melt-downs and couldn’t handle situations like birthday parties or really anything out of the ordinary. They put him on a low dose of Prozac which he still takes.

I want you to know that it was like a miracle. No more melt-downs. He had speech therapy and OT for a couple more years. Started school at age 5 (a regular, private school) and he has been an excellent student. He appears to be very intelligent and not great with personal relationships. But he is doing so well that he was just invited back to Duke to be a part of a study about autistic children who have had excellent outcomes.

If I had a child would I go to the doctor at Duke and would I try Prozac? In a second. I see few autistic kids with this kind of outcome. My friends were just incredibly blessed to find the right doctor. And you’re right, Dad, that mom is not on all the autism lists like she was when he was 3. She is too busy helping with homework, taking kids to church, and other activities. There lives are not controlled by autism like it was when he was 2 and 3 years old.

Janis

At the moment we’re just doing activities that supposedly help the body produce more serotonin (like knitting! I haven’t taught my son to do this yet, but that would be a serotonin-inducing activity — if this theory is correct), but I do plan to research other ways of deriving it. Maybe there are dietary ways of increasing it. And thanks for the links about 5-HTP etc… I will definitely do more research.

I agree that one does need to be cautious with herbs and alternative medicines. It is important to do a lot of research prior to using anything (including doctor’s prescriptions!). On the other hand, I once had some amazing results from chinese herbs (that were recommended by an MD!).

Karen, thanks for your kind words! This really hasn’t been so tough to deal with. I’m just kind of glad I may have discovered an important “piece of the puzzle.” My son isn’t having noticable seizures. He only has an abnormal amount of deja vu (approximately 2x a week) which may be a sign of temporal lobe seizures. This may explain his difficulties with language. I’m not completely convinced he has autism.

One of my oldest boys would perseverate on Ninja Turtles when he was a little kid, very sensory seeking, with certain blankets and music…he wore out a rocker because he rocked so much. He would just sit and rock whenver he was doing anything, like watching tv, reading a book, playing a video game, doing homework. After the rocker broke, he would just sit and rock moving his body foward and backwards. The rocking used to bug me but I figured out that rocking was his way of keeping himself aroused and calmed him down when he was overwhelmed. He also still craves milk, bread, sugar, macaroni and cheese and at one time all he would eat was corndogs when he was a preschooler. He is now in college; he still rocks but does it when he is playing his guitar, I guess it looks more “normal”.

I’ve love and often crave milk, sugar and “carby” foods. I think most people do.

And yet, my son used to drink so much milk I’d joke that he was on a “liquid diet.” Instead of eating a meal he’d fill-up on 1-2 glasses of milk (I would have to hold off on giving him liquids until he ate enough food).

On the other hand, when he was very young, he used to gag and vomit up almost every meal (due to chewing, swallowing difficulties). So his desire for milk and other liquids could have been caused by eating difficulties (or maybe both).

Don’t most kids (whether LD or not) “crave” these foods?
My non-LD daughter would live off chips and french fries if I let her.

That was my post above! I forgot to sign in. :-)