Stepson to be evaluated - what should we ask for?

Belle,

Truthfully, little remediation happens at middle school level on up. Your best bet is to get private testing and then private tutoring in an effective method (like Phono-Graphix or Lindamood-Bell). You need to find a place that does comprehensive reading/learning disabities testing (IQ and achievement tests). One example might be a Lindamood Bell Clinic. Another choice is a university as many have clinics to do reading/language testing. This is usually less expensive. He could have an OT evaluation for the handwriting issues, but I’d worry more about the reading and writing issues at this point. He can use a computer for writing much of the time.

I’m not sure what you mean, though, that he was evaluated in second grade and found to be LD but the recommendations were not followed up on…has he been on an IEP all that time? No recommendations will be followed up on without an IEP in place. And sadly, most school programs do not have effective remediation anyway.

Janis

I can’t really explain what happened. I can guess, but I don’t know for sure. You’d think we would (in theory) know more but we really don’t - the details we got through his mother over the years were sketchy at best so it is somewhat like adopting a child at age 13 without any knowledge of his history and going from there. Suffice (and sad) to say, his problems as they were identified were never addressed and things have progressed for him much as you would expect - he believes himself to be a failure and stupid, he has problems socially, he is often depressed.

No, I would not recommend Sylvan. A university or Lindamood Bell clinic would be your best bet. There are private evaluation centers for learning disabilites, but not knowing your area, it would be impossible to make any more specific recommendations.

Janis

Janis is giving good advice. An LMB clinic, or if you do it yourself, phonographix is the answer. It seems to be the parent tested and proven approach seen over and over on these boards.

The learning centers are not designed to help these kids. We had an absolutely awful experience.

I would add that especially for an older child you want to focus on his strengths as much as possible. I would ask any potential tester if they can find not only weaknesses but areas of strenghht that can be used to circumvent problems.
Also, showing him his strengths and helping him to showcase them will help his self-esteem and motivate him.

Read Mel Levine’s book, “All Kinds of Minds.”

If you or your husband are the custodial parent I think you should make a request in writing for copies of all his files. If they qualified him for an IEP and didn’t write one or didn’t provide the services on the IEP you might be able to get the district to pay for compensory services.

I also veto the Sylvan route.

I would still request, in writing, a full psycoeducational evaluation from the school. You will probably still have to go to an LMB clinic and/or get private tutoring but the eval results will still help. You don’t want to pour money into services and then have everything fall apart at school.

You might not want the school services but you will need accomodations in the classroom.

Try visiting: http://www.studentadvocacycenter.org/sampleletters/ and use the sample letter for requesting a special education evaluation.

Try also visiting:

http://www.readamerica.net it is the Phonographix website, you could search for a trainer or tutor near you.
and

http://www.lindamoodbell.com for a clinic near you.

I also veto the Sylvan idea!

Get the files—Ditto Sylvan. Costly investment without enough probable improvement.

This,to me is the most incredible situation I have heard in a long time. It’s kind of like the old saying,”if a tree falls in the forest,does it make a sound?” “If a kids civil and educational rights have been violated and the parent doesn’t know about it,is it a violation?” Hmmm,YES….

Of course I ALWAYS come at it from a legal standpoint,and you have already gotten some great advice about how to teach him. I don’t know much about kinds of remediation techniques,but I suppose I do know IDEA with my eyes closed.

1. If this child has an IEP,OR has been classified as SLD,then the school was obligated to reevaluate him every three years,or sooner IF the parent requests it,or his teacher requests it. ( look up Triennual evaluations in IDEA) Now if the team met with Mom,and everyone decided he was NOT in need of reevaluation,then they might possibly have gotten away from testing him.
You seriously need ALL educational records.

2. Even if the decision to not reeval came about,they were STILL obligated to show documentation that he was progressing. Via progress reports,if not evaluation scores.

3. He is NOT in NEED of help?? They have NOT reevaluated this kid? Well how in the world do they know? Ahh,he is getting c’s? Personally I would,look at what they evaled last time,what specific things they identified,and then ask them for documents showing how he has progressed,AND how he doesn’t need help. They MUST provide to the state department of education a list of kids identified as having an LD,then they must continue to either prove to the state the kid no longer needs or still needs special education services.( it’s all bout money. The state sends extra money to the school district for a kid called LD,if the kid isn’t called LD anymore,then the state doesn’t want to be sending extra money,know what I am saying? The state wouldn’t take,”well he IS getting c’s” as an answer!AND if the district is still telling them he is a kid called LD,then where in the hell is all that extra money?!)

4. IDEA states they MUST identify ALL educational needs( Child Find section of IDEA)Then they must reevaluate to show that they are doing something about his educational needs( evaluations,reevaluation,and eligibility section of IDEA) They must provide annual progress reports on the identified educational needs( IEP sections of IDEA) Once identified, the needs must be provided for in the least restrictive enviroment( LRE sections of IDEA) If he has poor handwriting,the possiblity of assistive technology OR Occupational therapy should have been evaluated for( related services section of IDEA) If the team,which should have included MOM,decided not to provide what was reccomended on the eval ,then they should have documented why.( Parental safeguards section of IDEA)

what I would do;

I would get a complete copy of ALL educational records. I would look for anything that indicated they decided not to re-eval and why. I would look for how often mom was present,did they send her information,invitations to meetings etc.?( in other words did mom have the opportunity to be involved and didn’t,or did they simply decide without including her?) Look and see if there is possibly more evaluation reports. Look for an IEP,if there IS an IEP,how many of them? They should have redone the IEP annually.Look for progress reports regarding the IEP goals. They should have as many of these as they would report cards. I would put the whole record in chronological order. They should have at least one more evaluation, if not, why?They should have at least three IEP’s,if not, why? They should have some sort of documented progress reports,if not why?

Once I did all of this I would start writing letters asking these questions. You need documented answers from them. If I could afford it,I would get a complete educational evaluation privately,the school has NO motivation to do an adequate job.Once you got what it is he needs,I would start asking the school to provide it.They are obligated legally to provide for his educational needs. Of course they will try to prove otherwise,hence the need of documentation,via ed files,and via letters. If the need to provide all of this to the state dept of education,you want to be prepared to do this.

On the side,I noticed the things you describe regarding your ss,sounds ALOT like my two. Both of my son’s are Gifted,Dysgraphic,and ADHD. Dysgraphia is a learning disability that effects written language. They have a difficult time writing legibly,spelling,and putting thoughts down on paper,although they are very bright and usually have a large vocabulary. Look for an article by Sue Jones,on the Ld in depth section,it explains dysgraphia well AND gives specific tests to ask for when doing evals.

Sorry I forgot to mention one more thing. You got me on a roll this morning.

If they did an eval,and you do not agree with the results they came up with,then according to IDEA( procedural safeguards section) you have the right to request an independent evaluation at the school districts expense. It would all depend on how long ago they evaluated him. They might request that you allow them to evaluate,fine let them,once you get the results then you can decide if the evaluation tells you what you need to know. In my experience a few things happen;they become much more motivated to adequately evaluate,( especially if they know you want an independent eval,that YOU KNOW you have the right to one.),they are more willing to do the specific tests you want done( you have the right to meet with the evaluator and discuss what you observe,what information you have found and what tests you require) or else you will simply turn around and request an idependent evaluation.

Lots of people have been told ,”no,we will not agree to an independent evaluation”. This is ILLEGAL. Please read the section of IDEA that explains IEE’s. Basicly the only way they can refuse to provide payment for the eval is this;they would have to take you to court,and allow the judge to decide whether your kid should have an independent eval done. 1. They haven’t done an eval since 2nd grade.2. They have provided squat in the way of services. They won’t want to tell the judge all of this.
Usually no school ever goes to the length of going to court. It is soo much cheaper to allow you the Independent eval. Make very sure you know which specific tests they( the school district ) require so that once the eval is done they can’t say,we require this and that and delay things.

Socks, you gave great, correct information, but really, what is incredible about this situation? I think most LD kids in public school with no outside interventions would be in exactly the same boat! Few are remediated to the point of being on grade level just from receiving school services. The only difference is, this is the step-mother asking for help, and she has not been directly involved with the school, so her details of what has transpired are lacking.

While this would be fine to pursue, given a two-inch stack of paperwork and never before having seen it and not knowing the law, anyone would be completely overwhelmed and lost! She would have to find someone to help her or this would be a very time-consuming task, And this child does not have time to waste.

My other area of disagreement is about forcing the school to provide the services. To me, it is quite clear they do not know how! More time in a resource room with poor methods and too many kids (which is typical) is not going to help the child. But they can say they have offered services. All this is to say, I understand their legal rights to fight. But if the kid is making C’s in regular class they probably won’t win a a case siting total educational neglect. I have no problem with requesting the records (they should do this), but my preference is for them to dedicate their time and energy toward getting outside help to remediate the child’s problems as opposed to getting involved in a big fight with the school to win nothing worthwhile in the end.

Janis

Just wind-up socks and watch her go! Janis’s advice is true, too. So, do parents just throw up their hands and decide that getting true FAPE is impossible?

At an inservice yesterday, I thought of you all. I thought of parents who fight to get a reasonable IEP document and then do not have teachers to truly implement that IEP in good faith. We were discussing the infamous FAPE with our State Dept of Ed Compliance Officer and our attorney for the district. Wish you were there, Socks.

This is so tricky that I’m not sure we’ll get the right things for kids/families, but if we don’t try, then we’re sure to fail to hold schools and teachers accountable for implementing a good IEP.

The due process or legal question with IEP goals & objectives (and their implementation) is “good faith.” Has the teacher/school/district made a good faith effort to implement them? How can they prove this? What artifacts demonstrate this alleged “good faith”? Leaving an uncertified teacher with no materials or training in a sped classroom would likely not be considered a “good faith” attempt to implement the IEP.

The “Appropriate” in FAPE would be a correct IEP process (timely, with all the notices, etc., etc.) and well-written, measureable, and meaningful goals that are implemented in good faith. Now there’s a lot in there with which to pick-apart your child’s services. It would be a good discussion.

Yeah,what can I say, a couple cups of coffee and I’m awake.
The thing I find incredible is the lack of reassessment. Even in today’s situation the dsitrict has to answer to the state.

As I was writing this ,I honestly was saying to myself,and this Stepmom will be saying,WHAT?! I can’t help it,on the other hand ,can’t tell you how many other parents email me with a similar situation or a question that came to mind. I always give WAY TOO much info:-) I posted to this mom before

I agree Janis, that kid’s even with the appropriate services, aren’t getting rememdiated,not even getting into this,I am talking strictly from the violation standpoint. You KNOW where my kids are.

I will NEVER agree that holding them accountable isn’t worth the fight. I will however agree that fighing for years and your kid waiting for the outcome is not appropriate. I didn’t mean allow the school to provide the services,I meant allow them to pay for the private ones:-) If you don’t ask,well guess what? Hell I don’t even want to see this school evaluate this kid!

Susan,

I am glad you understand both sides of the issue, as does Socks, I’m sure. As a parent, I certainly hold my child’s school accountable for what they are supposed to be providing for her. So please do not ever think I just write off all their responsibilities.

However, most of the LD teachers I have known are just the best people. They sincerely love kids and want to help them. But I look in their classroom and see what they use. Basically they are tutoring with the same materials used in the regular classes with a little modification. In the 15 years I have lived in this district, to my knowledege, there has never been a training offered on any MSSL approach to reading. Oh, but we’ve had learning styles, Failure Free reading, and other workshops which are less than memorable. Anyway, when one of these caring LD teachers writes an IEP, I earnestly have to tell you I would have to say it is in good faith. They are doing the best they can with the linited training and materials that they have. Not everyone, and I’d say very few actually, will go out and spend the thousands necessary to get programs and training like OG, PG, LB. It would scare me if I added up how much money I’ve spent over the last couple of years! I mention these things to other special ed. teachers, and they seem mildly interested, however, they really do not know that there are proven, more effective methods readily available. In a way, they are victims of the system too. They are not being given the tools with which to do a better job. So would I place my own child in an LD class in my district? No way!!! I have her in a charter school for that very reason. And what they do not provide I will get outside the school. But at least she gets one-on-one sp/language therapy there, which she’d never get in the public schools.

There may be light at the end of the tunnel once IDEA is reauthorized. If they will just include the necessity for earlier intervention with research based methods, then we might see a change for the better. Until then, my advice will be, forget the school and get outside remediation. Time is critical for a young child.

Janis

Lol, Socks! I did not see your reply before I posted my long philosophical paper to Susan! You know, I think you and I really agree on most everything, it’s just that you are presenting the legal end and I am presenting the practical end! We’re both right, it’s just that all parents are not equipped to wage all these battles at once, and I vote for investing time into trying to find appropriate evaluation and remediation first and foremost. And I agreee with you, I really don’t want a school eval on this kid!

Janis

I think my colleagues are just the nicest people, too. That has nothing to do with providing kids what they need in order to learn. I think most teachers want to do what they can do in their contracted day to help kids. Most get tired of their district taking advantage of them: wanting them to buy own materials and pay for own training. It is the district that I’m really concerned with here—and institutions of higher education for not doing a good job of preparing teachers to teach.

If we wrote to OSER/OSEP in Washington and said: my colleagues are just the nicest and they do they best job they can. That is my evidence for FAPE or lack thereof. What would be their response?

Districts are collecting money for these kids. Instead of rewallpapering the superintendent’s office, why not spend some bucks on teacher training. What I’m saying is, that parents must hit higher than the sped teacher—who is doing his/her best to do what they can. That, however, doesn’t mean FAPE is provided.

We already reauthorized IDEA in ‘97. All the administrators wish to do is weaken the accountability part of it in another reauthorization. It is as good as it gets right now, I feel. Let’s try implementing what we have before we change it again…most districts don’t even know what is in the State Plan. Sadly.

Somedays I can still ride my advocacy horse. I was a pretty fair rider in my day.

If three years has passed since evaluation, then school, I believe, has the right to do a reevaluation and then an IEE if the parents/step-parents disagree with the reevaluation. Yes, I know nothing was done. First, though, (before requesting the evaluation) formally review the file and have copies of everything to see if a child-complaint might not get things running in the right direction…

Might try COPAA for an advocate to hire who will know what you’re looking for in that file. That should rattle them to the point that a child’complaint isn’t even necessary.

It is my experience that once schools know a parent cannot be bamboozled, they will not try so much wool-pulling. That immediately levels the playing field a little bit.

Look for compliance errors in notice, time-frames, paperwork. Attorneys for school district cringe at this kind of thing. It is the easy way to show a FAPE violation. Can’t have FAPE if the process wasn’t done correctly…

Gotta go tutor!

I’m goign to bring up another possibility,. Perhaps the child WAS re-evaluated properly. But guess what sometimes happens? The discrepancies move to -14 or -13 and in addition, the kid is passing in the regular class. So what happens? The school recommends dismissal from services. I’m sure we all know this happens all the time. This could be the case here…just one possibility of many.

Janis

I agree with what you are saying, but the “wait ‘til they fail model” just doesn’t work very well. It’s too little, too late. Even good teachers will have a challenge when the kids aren’t served when they need to be, by mid-first grade usually.

Actually, I was really encouraged by something my state is doing. Take a look if you have a chance. They set up some best practice centers using some decent programs! When I asked my special ed. director about it, she basically said nothing would happen unless it comes from the top down (as in mandated with funding attached). The money is not in the budget for massive teacher training, so it’s not likely to filter down to other districts anytime soon.

I teach mainly hearing impaired and am a lone ranger in that I pretty much do what I want (I’m currently the only HI teacher in the county). Of course, again, it is mostly self-financed.

http://www.ncsip.org/index.html

Janis

:-) It all depends on what is in those files. Gosh I wish I knew! I can almost see the state complaint now! Anyway,Of course we agree Janis,we both love the children:-)

LOL Susan. My husband was just looking over my shoulder and said to tell you. You definitely don’t want socks there,because no one would get to go home.
But seriously you hit the nail on the head. This is just where I was coming from. Just how many procedural violations might there be in those ed files? Did Mom get notices and decided not to go?And what did happen regarding the IEP? Or does he even have an IEP? It would be interesting to know what happened in the last 5 years.

ABSOLUTELY it is definitely higher then the resource room teacher. Ultimately it is the responsiblity of the district.

Susan,don’t get off that HORSE! Too many people need you :-)

AMEN to everything susan just said:-)

Right,if the school wants to evaluate you must allow them before asking for an IEE. Not only would this be used against you in court,but you HAVE to allow the school to offer FAPE,and doing the eval is part of that.But you don’t have to accept there eval,and you don’t have to agree with it. You can turn around and request a independent eval before their ink dries:-)

Education is a state issue; true there are federal laws and IDEA, but states appropriate the money and communities spend it according to local control. Your best bet is to contact local advocacy groups, ask other parents with middle schoolers in special ed. how they find the services, then you will know what is available in reality. In some locations there may be universitybased eval. clinics that could give you an independent eval. of your stepson. good luck…he’s lucky to have you in his corner.

With the two of us at a meeting, we might be able in for the marathon of all time.

I think this lady needs an advocate, though. Someone to know what papers should be there…and what the dates on them should be.

like great advise from Socks. Great answer, Socks, and Mom, if you follow Socks’ advice, you’ll be well on your way to success.

Socks, personally I was also thinking he sounded a LOT like a very bright LD child.

I think you all frightened this poor mom so badly she may not come back! LOL. I think we would ALL make good trial attorneys. Nothing gets Socks (or me) fired up like a district not doing what it’s supposed to do, by law.

We are fighting a war in our county right now. The superintendent has a penthouse with 3 walls of windows overlooking the river from the school board building and our kids can’t get more than 30min of OT/speech, etc. per week.

Funny thing is, (socks you’ll love this) we’ve been writing letters, keeping a phone log, etc., since last July. ccing: the superintendent. NEVER go a response. In December we wrote another letter advising the school board we had filed a complaint with the FDOE and the OCR in Atlanta, and GOLLY, GOSH, DARN, we got a letter (signed with real ink) from the super in about 8 days. Too late, we’ve already filed - verbally only - but waiting to get the paperwork in. I am hoping the FDOE will investigate. I really want to put an ad in the paper “Attn: All ESE parents at ____________ High School” and have them all file formal complaints - the only way to really get them to investigate - Socks, do you know - do they ever really investigate a county for lack of compliance?

We’ve already begun the wait & fail model for many, many students when they don’t qualify for Sped in 1st/2nd grade and they have to wait for the discrepancy to widen (eh, Lulu?). We then we put kids in sped and they fail to learn some more because few know how to teach them in a way that they do learn. Is it any wonder parents come unglued at this whole deal? As a parent, I was absolutely aghast at a total system this inept. As a teacher, I try to model what I wished for as a parent—hoping to gather others in my wake. Small wake so far. LOL.

Somehow, someway, this has to change. It has to change at the level of teacher preparation. It has to change at the school board level, the building level, and in the classroom.

My heart broke today when I ran into a family who stopped tutoring with me (shortly after beginning) because they cannot afford it. (The didn’t tell me that at the time.) Now, the family is trying to move into my school district so that the girl might learn to read in school. They aren’t a perfect family, but neither is mine. Or anyone’s. My school district isn’t perfect either. People like this need the FAPE promised them by IDEA. We just must work toward that goal, everyday in our own little corners of the world.

I try to work with FAPE by writing good IEP’s, implementing them well, and encouraging my colleagues to get training that will assist them in writing and implementing meaningful GnO’s.

We must continue working on that A in FAPE, Janis. It is truly the promise of IDEA.

Standing down from soapbox now. Sorry.

We had a parent complain that special ed. kids were released 30 minutes before others to ride the special buses home (kids brought to central location self-contained classes). They filed a complaint with the OCR and they came down here! Needless to say, the bus schedule was fixed very quickly.

Janis

I just love you, Susan. And so many other wonderful people here, too, including all involved in this thread.

I’m going to try and email you to tell you how I am working on the A in my little corner of the world. Can’t do it here since I’m using my name!

Janis

Leah,

it depends. I know your DOE well. They would like nothing else in the world to NOT investigate. If there is ANY wiggle room what so ever they will use it. Do not give them any. The way to prevent this:

have every shred of documentation ready,send it along with the complaint. Request every shred of documentation they( the DOE) requests from them( the county district) Go through it with a fine tooth comb,respond to it. This process can delay your timeline,but this helped me tremendously.In other words you have the right to all documents sent from the county.

OCR,Atlanta.

DO NOT FILE similiar comnplaints at the same time. What will happen is OCR will drop and let FDOE investigate,or FDOE will drop it and let OCR investigate.
I can’t quite remember the issues involved in the complaint so can’t give you answer on which agency to go with,but I think placing an ad for ALL ESE hs school students is not a bad idea. Here is another idea:

As you probably know there is no specific timeline on initial evaluations in the state of Florida. It states it must be done in a timely manner,correct?
Okay,in 1996 I was trying to get my kids tested,they were 1st and kindergarten,the school,and then the district kept telling me ,the waiting list was 18 months long. I kept trying. The director of Psych services tells me,and this was via phone,there were 1600 kids on the list to be tested,mine would have to wait their turn. 1600 KIDS! So,I filed an OCR complaint,on behalf of all the kids waiting to be tested. I didn’t have to have names,OCR requested the list,and by golly their were 1600 kids waiting.So what happened was this,OCR gave the district 12 months to clear all names off the list,or they would pull federal funds,but the very best thing that came out of this was,they required my county school district to formulate a policy with specific timelines on how long a child would wait to be tested. 60 days from parental consent to eligiblity staffing. NO other district in this whole state has this timeline. My point to this is how you can file without having names.

Now when filing the state complaint it is best to give the state what you want. Telling them your idea of resolution. For example,I filed a state complaint on my district’s assistive technology policies. The policies made a parent wait through a screening,then a trial period,then a formal eval,before the student could used a piece of equipment. My feeling is this delayed things long enough to get a parent to give up on ever getting something for their kids to use in class
My complaint was revolving around related services,and timelines for evaluation for related services,and violation of my kids IEP
My resolution idea,was to 1. of course.immediately implement IEP
2. develop policies regarding a request from the parent to evaluate.
3. provide the device!

so what happened
policies were developed,my kid got his laptop,we met for another IEP

In the end, it is much easier to give you what you want,instead of trying to figure it out on their own.
the thing I always try to remember is there are other kids sitting next to mine,needing the same thing, sometime.

This is because when you talk about a large group of kids,and segregation..

It grabs their attention.

no doubt! Yes,this mom needs an advocate. I guess I was trying to be one,and made it even more complicated.

These situations are always complicated—you know that. We can only do so much from cybertown; some of it has to be face-to-face. We sure can’t examine the files with her and look and see if the notices are completed correctly. She needs someone with her.

I probably should have suggested their parent training agency in the state. Well, maybe she’s still reading.