I received another call from school yesterday saying my son was in his class saying he wanted to die over and over again. The school psycologist was concerned because he new that he was supposed to start on prozac over the weekend, but the script never came in the mail and the doctor was on vacation. (great) After a couple of phone calls of frustration myself, the doctor finally got in touch with me this evening and we decided to put him on risperdal with the adderall. Any comments on this drug?
it's pretty potent
When I was a preschool teacher one of my 4 year old students was put on Risperdal. When he was on it his behavior was really irratic. When I read up on the drug I just about freaked out because of the side effects and risks it posed for grown adults let alone a small boy.
My heart goes out to you because this is a really hard decision to make and perhaps making it a matter of prayer and intense research would help you find the answers you seek.
Re: trying risperdal
While I am in total agreement about the need for caution in prescribing and taking *all* drugs, I would just like to note that all the websites given above appear to be private sites; this means that anyone can post anything, and you need to be very careful about the supposed sources of the material on them. Misleading information can be harmful both when it comes from drug companies AND when it comes from amateurs. Be careful about drugs, and be equally careful about unknown posters on the internet, please.
As far as the question of suicidal talk, yes, please, take this with the utmost seriousness. Question: can you take him out of school for a short time for illness? (The stress that is causing this talk is a legitimate illness!) I haven’t re-read the beginning of the thread — is he on any medication now? If so, you probably should discuss with the doctor as soon as possible weaning him off whatever is causing these side effects. Is he getting effective counselling? Sometimes counselling from the wrong approach can make things a lot worse instead of better, I know from my own experience; I hope you are exploring every av enue to get him the support he needs.
All the best to you, hoping this passes soon.
Re: trying risperdal
I think to error on the side of caution is best.
Secondly Don’t trust the the pharmaceutical companies to fully disclose the dangers of their potions.
For me there is clearly enough evidence to stay away from it.
Let’s face it the drug companies are more interested in creating “diseases for their cheap to manufacture expensive to buy drugs thatn they are interested in curing anything.
You can put a lot of faith in the links posted. The very fact that Risperdal hasn’t been approved for kids should speak volumes.
What are the possible side effects of risperidone?
• Contact your doctor immediately if you experience fever, sweating, severe muscle stiffness (rigidity), confusion, fast or irregular heart beat. These could be symptoms of a potentially fatal side effect called Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome (NMS).
• If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop taking risperidone and seek emergency medical treatment or contact your doctor immediately:
· an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);
· uncontrollable movements of the tongue, face, lips, arms, or legs;
· muscle spasms of the face or neck;
· severe restlessness or tremor;
· severe drowsiness or fainting; or
· irregular or very fast heartbeat.
• Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to occur. Continue to take risperidone and talk to your doctor if you experience
· mild restlessness, drowsiness, or tremor;
· insomnia;
· blurred vision;
· dizziness or headache;
· nausea; or
· weight gain.
• Side effects other than those listed here may also occur. Talk to your doctor about any side effect that seems unusual or that is especially bothersome.
What other drugs will affect risperidone?
• Before taking this medication, tell your doctor if you are taking any of the following medicines:
· carbamazepine (Tegretol);
· clozapine (Clozaril);
· medicines used to treat Parkinson’s Disease such as levodopa (Dopar, Larodopa, Sinemet, Atamet, others), bromocriptine (Parlodel, others), pergolide (Permax), pramipexole (Mirapex), or ropinirole (Requip), or;
· any medicine used to lower blood pressure.
• You may not be able to take risperidone, or you may require a dosage adjustment or special monitoring during treatment if you are taking any of the medicines listed above.
• Risperidone may increase the effects of other drugs that cause drowsiness, including antidepressants, alcohol, antihistamines, sedatives (used to treat insomnia), pain relievers, anxiety medicines, and muscle relaxants. Tell your doctor about all medicines that you are taking, and do not take any medicine without first talking to your doctor.
• Drugs other than those listed here may also interact with risperidone. Talk to your doctor and pharmacist before taking any prescription or over-the-counter medicines, including vitamins, minerals, and herbal products.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/risperid_ad.htm
Risperdal Side Effects
Risperdal side effects are serious and potentially deadly. The concern with the growing power large pharmaceutical companies have has been a concern because of the influence exercised over safety regulations in pursuit of financial gain instead of patient safety. The world’s second biggest maker of medical products, Johnson & Johnson’s Risperdal schizophrenia drug has annual global sales of $2.1 billion. While a J&J spokesperson claimed “an update to the Risperdal label is indeed being made, and we will be sending out letters to health care professionals soon,” in April 2003, the company had already issued Risperdal warning letters to Canadian doctors and pharmacists six months before announcing Risperdal side effect risks in the U.S.
In October 2002, a Risperdal warning letter was sent to Canadian doctors and pharmacists after the reports of 37 Risperdal stroke or stroke-like events like blood clots and hemorrhages occurred, including 16 Risperdal deaths. The Risperdal warning letter sent to Canadian physicians and pharmacists also noted that two clinical trials of elderly dementia patients in which elderly Risperdal dementia patients had a higher proportion of strokes or related events than patients that had received placebo. Risperdal clinical trials have shown that 4% of Risperdal patients suffered stroke or stroke-related events, opposed to just 2% of people receiving placebos. There were four Risperdal deaths and just on death amongst placebo recipients.
Clinical trials testing Risperdal in Alzheimer patients heightened concerns that the occurrence of serious Risperdal side effects is higher than previously thought. Among the 764 Risperdal study patients, 29 cases of stroke and stroke-related events were seen, in addition to four deaths. A Public Citizen consumer watchdog group pharmacist and research analyst thinks that the recent Risperdal studies should push U.S. regulators to deeper examine if younger aged schizophrenia patients are also more prone to experiencing Risperdal stroke and other side effects of Risperdal.
The use of Risperdal is dangerous not only because of the serious and deadly Risperdal side effects linked to the antipsychotic medication, but because Risperdal may disguise signs and symptoms of other conditions. Risperdal use can cover the presence of Risperdal overdose, intestinal obstruction, brain tumor, and Reye’s syndrome. Safety implications have not yet been established for Risperdal use in pregnant women and with children.
Risperdal is considered a new antipsychotic drug that has been approved for adult use but the safety of Risperdal in children has not yet been established. The well-known side effect of antipsychotic drugs like Risperdal can include tardive dyskenisia. Despite the lack of known Risperdal safety indication in children, a growing number of psychiatrists are prescribing the drug to treat conduct disorders. There has been a growing debate in whether or not health professionals are over prescribing psychotropic medications over counseling.
In January 2003, the medical journal Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine reported that the number of children taking psychiatric drugs nationwide has at least doubled in the past decade. The drug Risperdal is a favored prescription medication of child psychiatrists and the report re-ignited the debate of the use of potentially very dangerous medications in children.
Risperdal was part of the national study that looked at many drugs created for psychotic adults. A lead author of the study, Julie Magno Zito, thinks that the results are extremely disturbing because of the little research performed on how the compounds in drugs like Risperdal affect young patients. Zito thinks that a “serious research agenda” is necessary to reassure mental health professionals and parents that medications like Risperdal are appropriate for children.
The use of Risperdal is connected to the possible cause of Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome, characterized by muscle stiffness, fast or irregular heartbeat, increased sweating, high fever, blood pressure problems, and death if left untreated. Most commonly, Risperdal side effects can include:
• Abdominal pain
• Abnormal walk
• Agitation
• Aggression
• Anxiety
• Chest pain
• Constipation
• Coughing
• Decreased activity
• Decreased sexual desires
• Diarrhea
• Dizziness
• Dry skin
• Difficulty urinating
• Heavy menstruation
• Tremor
• Vomiting
• Weight gain
• Lethargic feelings
• Dry mouth
• Join pain
• Lack of coordination
• Impotence
• Difficulty ejaculating
• Involuntary movements
• Nasal inflammation
• Tremor
• Respiratory infection
• Sore throat
For more information on Risperdal side effects please contact us to confer with a Risperdal lawyer.
For more information on Risperdal side effects contact us to confer with a Risperdal lawyer.
More Risperdal News:
April 27, 2004 - FDA tells Janssen to stop misleading Risperdal claims and promotions
http://www.adrugrecall.com/newsletter/jun04/risperdal.html
FDA tells Janssen to stop misleading Risperdal claims and promotions
-April 27, 2004
The FDA warned Risperdal maker Janssen Pharmaceuticals, a unit of Johnson & Johnson that its November 2003 letter issued to doctors was misleading. According to the FDA, the letter failed to disclose information added to Risperdal’s labeling regarding excess blood sugar and diabetes risks, in addition to minimizing the risk of serious events like death and coma.
Also excluded from the letter was the recommendation for regular testing for diabetes. The company made misleading claims indicating Risperdal is a safer choice than competing atypical antipsychotics. Janssen is to stop any distribution of promotions containing similar messages and to then issue more accurate and complete information to the recipients of the former letter.
Re: trying risperdal
And once more, who is the “guest” above posting? Where does this information come from? How much is real and how much is scare tactics and drug company bashing? Please note that that last question *does* assune that some of this is legitimate — the problem is sorting out how much and how legitimate, which the “guest” carefully hides. Unfortunately a good way to hide a lie is to mix it in with a fair amount of truth and then to put upp a smokescreen to make it hard to check, exactly as is being done here.
If you have real information, please post it in a scientifically acceptable manner, ie with sources and references that people can trace. In general your own name should be on the posting — or at least a registered pseudonym so that people can get to know you as a dependable person and contact you with questions.
I would recommend to anyone reading a “guest” post like the above NOT to take it as truth until you have checked out the references for yourself. There may indeed be a lot of truth in the post above; and on the other hand, a lot of harmful ideas have been spread in just this way.
Risperdal
I can personally testify that Risperdal is a very serious drug. I work with kids in the child welfare system, and have seen it used many times. I am also familiar with the side effect profile, which is available in the PDR or Medline, which are legitimate medical sources. The side effects listed by the second “Guest” are quite accurate. In particular, the risk of movement disorders, including the permanent and irreversable “Tardive Dyskinesia”, are particularly concerning. It is used for psychosis and for extreme aggression, usually in much older kids. Why it is being recommended for suicidal depression is beyond me.
You should also consider the possibility (as I think Victoria implies) that the stimulants may be causing or worsening depression. I have not specifically looked at the Adderall product information, but I clearly recall the Ritalin product insert stating that it was contraindicated for cases of anxiety or extreme depression, as it can worsen these conditions. As Adderall is a mix of amphetamines, and Ritalin is in the amphetamine family as well, it is likely that Adderall is not recommended for depressed people. In any case, every child reacts differently to medication, and if I were the parent, I would definitely look at side effects as a possible cause of the suicidal statements prior to adding new medications to the regime.
Please look up Risperdal and Adderall in the PDR or on Medline, and talk over all these possibilities with your doctor, and if you are not comfortable with what you hear, please consider a second opinion. Risperdal is VERY serious medicine intended for aggression and for psychosis, and has a very severe side effect profile. I would not put a child on it unless it was unavoidably necessary, based on my direct experience with children and Risperdal in my profession.
Mellissa...
Steve and Victoria have some good advice. Have you been to www.conductdisorders.com? The forum there has alot of parents who are dealing with various behaviour problems, ODD, etc., and I have noticed quite a few kiddos on risperdal. Posters there share alot of info re meds, since it is such an individual thing. You will often find many different med lists for kids with the same basic dx, since the reactions to one drug or another are quite unique. You may find some valuable input there.
Also, I see often on that site that people who are bipolar can be really messed up when taking stims of any sort — experience rages, unbounded agression, etc. So research, research, research…There are also good links on the site that may give you access to more avenues. Or maybe tell you enough to decide to look for a second psy-doc referral — don’t be afraid to be a squeaky wheel. Go with your gut, and guide your gut by learning ALL YOU CAN about your child’s problems and the possible solutions. Even the experts get it wrong — mental health treatment is as much an art as it is a science, IMO!
Either way, don’t just dismiss a drug based on possible side effects!!! In certain cases, side effects and GOOD EFFECTS must be balanced to make a decision…best wishes to you!
Re: trying risperdal
Steve said, Quote ” As Adderall is a mix of amphetamines, and Ritalin is in the amphetamine family as well, it is likely that Adderall is not recommended for depressed people. ” Unquote
No, Ritalin is in a different “family” than Adderall. Ritalin, Ritalin LA, Metadate CD, Concerta and Focalin are in the Methylphenidate family of meds.
Adderall XR and Adderall are in the Amphetamine family.
Re: trying risperdal
here’s a link for more info on the various stimulants.
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/add_adhd/adhd_medications_update.html
Re: trying risperdal
I guess it depends on how you differentiate. But being a chemist, I can tell you that the basic structure of Ritalin is very similar to amphetamine and methamphetamine, and the action is also very similar. In fact, if you look them up on Medline, there is a standard list of amphetamine side effects that is listed for Ritalin, Methamphetamne, Dexidrine, and Adderall. Chemically speaking, there isn’t much of a difference, so if Ritalin is contraindicated for depression, I would expect that the same would probably apply to any of the other stimulants of similar actions and structure. But you don’t have to agree with me. That’s just my advice based on what I have read and seen and know from experience.
Re: trying risperdal
I guess it depends on how you differentiate. But being a chemist, I can tell you that the basic structure of Ritalin is very similar to amphetamine and methamphetamine, and the action is also very similar. In fact, if you look them up on Medline, there is a standard list of amphetamine side effects that is listed for Ritalin, Methamphetamne, Dexidrine, and Adderall. Chemically speaking, there isn’t much of a difference, so if Ritalin is contraindicated for depression, I would expect that the same would probably apply to any of the other stimulants of similar actions and structure. But you don’t have to agree with me. That’s just my advice based on what I have read and seen and know from experience.
Re: trying risperdal
[quote:40d96090e0=”Steve”]I guess it depends on how you differentiate. But being a chemist, I can tell you that the basic structure of Ritalin is very similar to amphetamine and methamphetamine, and the action is also very similar. In fact, if you look them up on Medline, there is a standard list of amphetamine side effects that is listed for Ritalin, Methamphetamne, Dexidrine, and Adderall. Chemically speaking, there isn’t much of a difference, so if Ritalin is contraindicated for depression, I would expect that the same would probably apply to any of the other stimulants of similar actions and structure. But you don’t have to agree with me. That’s just my advice based on what I have read and seen and know from experience.[/quote]
Hi Steve,
I have heard that Ritialin is nearly identical to cocaine.
http://www.udel.edu/chemo/teaching/CHEM465/SitesF02/Prop26b/Rit%20Page4.html
As a chemist, what do you think?
Chemical structures - non-chemists may freely ignore this!
There are some definite similarities in structure. Both have a piperidine ring (five carbons and a nitrogen), and both have a methyl ester group attached to a carbbon which is attached to the piperidine ring at the same point. They also both have a benzene ring attached. However, the cocaine has an additional cross linking within the piperidine ring, and the benzene ring is attached very differently (through an ester link) from the one in Ritalin (which is attached through a carbon chain). What differences these structural variations would make in the brain is beyond my ability to predict. I guess it wouldn’t be surprising if they acted similarly, since both have the ester and the piperidine ring in the same basic configuration. But there is additional polarity added by the extra carbonyl in the cocaine, not to mention some level of structural resonance with the benzene ring, that would make it hard to predict what would happen without some very focused experimentation.
That’s my best read of the situation.
Re: trying risperdal
The brains sees them as identical because the both block serotonin transporters. Ritalin is more potent and has a greater potential for addiction but because it is administered in lower doses and because it doesn’t get to the brain all at once it is not quite as addicting as cocaine But if it were adminstered at the same dosage it would have a higher addiction potential.
Chemically is Ritalin difficult to manufacture? It is still very expensive. I have heard that it is actually very cheap to manufacture. Less costly than Asprin.
Re: trying risperdal
Most medications currently in circulation are rather cheap to make, more so since so many are made overseas and imported into our country. The excessive cost at the register is a combination of permitted profiteering on the part of the Pharmaceutical Cos. who hold the patents and the extraordinary markup Pharmacists charge to cover their overhead (average mark-up for prescription meds is about 600%). I’ve read that Ritalin (a chemical cousin to amphetimines and cocaine which behaves in the body in all the anticipated ways) is very cheap to manufacture, pennies a “hit”.
Re: trying risperdal
[quote:85f5edea44=”Dad”]Most medications currently in circulation are rather cheap to make, more so since so many are made overseas and imported into our country. The excessive cost at the register is a combination of permitted profiteering on the part of the Pharmaceutical Cos. who hold the patents and the extraordinary markup Pharmacists charge to cover their overhead (average mark-up for prescription meds is about 600%). I’ve read that Ritalin (a chemical cousin to amphetimines and cocaine which behaves in the body in all the anticipated ways) is very cheap to manufacture, pennies a “hit”.[/quote]
I would have to believe that the mark up on Ritalin is more like 6000%
I’m surprised that drug dealers aren’t manufacturing it. I know a couple of coke heads and they prefer snorting Ritalin to coke.
Ritalin has been around for a long time. You’d think they wouldnot be making such obscene profits on it. The drug companies probably make a billion dollars a day from its sales.
Re: trying risperdal
[quote:0f6c97e76f=”MELLISA”]I received another call from school yesterday saying my son was in his class saying he wanted to die over and over again. The school psycologist was concerned because he new that he was supposed to start on prozac over the weekend, but the script never came in the mail and the doctor was on vacation. (great) After a couple of phone calls of frustration myself, the doctor finally got in touch with me this evening and we decided to put him on risperdal with the adderall. Any comments on this drug?[/quote]
Dear Mellisa,
I’m so sorry that you are struggling with this. I am struggling with a very similar question for my 7-year-old who takes Paxil for anxiety.
But in answer to your question about Risperdal, it is a very very serious medication. I have taken it myself. I suppose it was given to your son because it has such a powerful sedating effect.
I felt like an automaton on it. I took it for less than a week; I felt I would rather be dead than feel the way this medication made me feel. If you son has any kind of bi-polarity, and he was given a stimulant med like Adderall, he could wind up in an agitated, anxious depression called a mixed state. These states are very dangerous because the issue of suicide is very real. There is the deadly combination of enough to despair and pain to want to end one’s life and enough energy and agitation to act on that despair.
I am not a psychopharmacologist, but I have read alot about manic depressive illness, ADHD, and autism in an effort to help myself, my husband, and my daughter. (We’re one big happy family.) <eye roll>
I hope that you will find a VERY VERY GOOD psychopharmacologist and therapist for your son.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Mothersvox[/img]
[quote:ee820a8ccd=”MELLISA”]I received another call from school yesterday saying my son was in his class saying he wanted to die over and over again. The school psycologist was concerned because he new that he was supposed to start on prozac over the weekend, but the script never came in the mail and the doctor was on vacation. (great) After a couple of phone calls of frustration myself, the doctor finally got in touch with me this evening and we decided to put him on risperdal with the adderall. Any comments on this drug?[/quote]
Subject: Risperdal - interesting article
Posted by jenPH on Jul 31 2004 9:54AM
In reply to Risperdal - is this for children? ABSOLUTELY NOT! by jenPH on Jul 30 2004 3:28PM
If Risperdal is not supposed to be for children, why are doctors prescribing it? Risperdal’s own web site says that there is no safety or effectiveness for children. Are doctors allowed to prescribe something that is not advised for children? Please advise.Yes, doctors are allowed to make off-label prescriptions. Pharm companies are not supposed to advertise for off-label uses, but they do anyway… Doctors, though, can prescribe what they want…Risperdal (risperdone) has not been researched with and is not indicated for children and adolescents. It is a antipsychotic medication (neuroleptic) which among the more striking and concerning side effects is its potential to create tardive dyskinesia, a neurological problem by which a person has involuntary spasms (particularly of the jaw and face). In addition, NMS (neuroleptic malignant syndrome) can be a risk and can be fatal.
Please see the following in regards to more information on psychotropic medication dangers as well as information on tardive dykinesia and neuroleptic malignant syndrome (which can be fatal).http://www.geocities.com/stnektarios/MEDS.html
Sadly, some psychiatrists remain willing to prescribe this medication to children (as well as others) despite the risks and dangers.
Dr. Peter R. Breggin, MD has described the effects of Risperdal and other neuroleptics as a ‘chemical lobotomy’ because its mechanism is to effect the functions of the frontal lobe and basal ganglia.
Dan L. Edmunds, M.A., B.C.S.A.
www.voice4kids.org
http://www.ablechild.org/board/?topic=topic1&msg=6355
http://www.critpsynet.freeuk.com/FAILURE.htm
http://www.adrugrecall.com/seroquel/dangers.html
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