What to do???

I’ve read your posts over the past year and I know you live in CA. The words that stick out to me in your post are “The small class size and individualized curriculum suited him” when you were refering to the private school. I really don’t think that the public school will measure up to this standard. If you have the money I suggest you get him back into the private school. The school did not follow up and develop and IEP as they promised and this is only the beginning. If there is a way that you can get the related sevices without him attending the public school then that might be an option to persue.

Just my humble opinion.

Helen

IF he was happy at that private school, I’d probably keep him there - like Helen said. Though they only “teach to the gifted”, b/c you are spending money, many times they are happy to “help” b/c they want to keep your money coming in. especially if they see several years of it in the future. He will not get that small class and 1:1 attn. in ps - not even in gifted.

As far as the gifted in ps, at our school in elementary, we only have 1 day pullout for gifted. So… those very bright gifted (but different in many ways!) kiddos end up singing silly songs and having to deal with how the other 1/2 of the world lives - something your son WILL have to get used to. (Like the ones who DON”T understand why all the other kids don’t want to research plant life)

That was a godsend (1 day pullout) for my daughter, who being dyslexic, couldn’t read on grade level, couldn’t write, etc., yet could “think” with the best of them. This way the stress was not too heavy as she was being remediated for the reading and writing.

Again, I know we didn’t “solve” your problem, but perhaps the “therapy” of talking it out will help you reach a conclusion (Sometimes I think these boards are about that - an outlet to release frustration, gain knowledge, see “the other side of the coin”, etc.

He sounds like a great little guy who has come a long way!

If you put this little guy on an IEP in the public schools they will focus on all he can’t do. This can have devastating effects on his self esteem. We have been there, done that.

It is just the way it is. Gifted programs for kids with “a problem” are extremely rare. He needs a place where they will see his gifts and continue to develop them. If you can get him in with a really flexible regular ed teacher and remediate on the outside that is another option. That becomes a gamble every year. Sped is probably the wrong place for most gifted kids.

It is best to focus on his gifts while he is at school.

As everyone else has said,I would NOT go back to the public school. WHy?

What makes it so special? Part of the community? But yet what have they given him thus far?

Personally,and maybe I am biased,but did it ever occur to you the private school would help accomodate him,because they LIKE him? What better place for him to be? A place that wants him,not a place that wants him to be a “fugitive”. I understand the hurt,spend time at the private school. I am sure they would love to have volunteers,and help from parents.
In my opinion,I would spend my loyality with people who deserved it.

In our district we serve children in private schools who qualify for related services at thier home public school. Parents have to bring their child back to the public school for services. Does he have OT? Sounds like he may need it.

The issue you’re wrestling with is central to having children with learning differences. What school do we put them in?

From having parented two LD children of my own through public and private school and taught many others, I’d say the sad truth is that there is no real protection for our children in any school. IEPS are documents that - as you’re finding out- don’t have all that much force to them. Teachers can and ignore them. So the lack of an IEP in a private school to me is not an issue.

Which school is your son happiest in? If tuition is not an issue, the small wonderfully ‘quirkly’ private school you’ve found sounds good for him. Perhaps their ‘quirkiness’ will help them to be interested in your son’s issues past his giftedness. My best quess would be - he’s not the only child there with some learning differences. In my experience, it is not uncommon for gifted children to also have areas of weakness.

Good luck with your decision.

This is so hard. On paper the private school is the way to go but it’s a fairly new school and I’m not sure what it’s future looks like. If it wasn’t so new, it would probably have a waiting list and I wouldn’t be able to get Alex in. Alex is definately happier at the private school, doesn’t want to leave when it’s time to go home. On the other hand, I believe our neighborhood school has good teachers that will do their best for Alex. On the other hand, there’s only so much you can do with a class of 20. I observed today, he had a melt down over not getting a turn at something. He also had a couple of interactions with other children that were not very possitive. Academicly, it’s a complete waste of time for him. Socially, I see it being stressful and not very rewarding. This was the first week of school. Days 3 and 4 he physically fought getting ready for school, kicking off his shoes repeatedly. Day 5 he had a “stomach ache” and didn’t want to go. When he’s there, he tries really hard to be good. Then I pick him up and he begs to go to the private school. “Please, please, please, please, please.” Money is not really the issue. If we put him in the private school we will expect our district to pay for it. It won’t cost them much more than educating any other child in the district and will probably cost less than educating most of the special ed students. It would definately cost less than the district hiring an unqualified aide to help in his class. There may be a bit of a fight with the district about it so that’s extra incentive to be sure that we’re making the right decision. We have an IEP on Thursday. Wish us luck.

At the preschool programs that I have worked for autism specific classrooms, music is a major part of the curriculum to teach language, pragmatics, intonation, stress and prosody. We also teach sign language that accompanies the music being sung. They aren’t just silly songs.

Alex went to a preschool for autistic children and they did a lot of silly songs too. I meant to say that the silly songs and other playful things were the good part of kindergarten that Alex would miss out on if he went to a private gifted program. On the other hand, being in a big group of children singing those silly songs may be stressful for Alex. I had a “duh” moment today… something about being autistic makes being in a large group of people uncomfortable… duh. Silly songs in a small group were great for Alex. It was practically 1:1. Not just because of the high teacher to student ratio but because Alex pretty much didn’t acknowledge the existance of other people… unless they put him on their lap, bounced him up and down and sang silly songs:-)

“I observed today, he had a melt down over not getting a turn at something. He also had a couple of interactions with other children that were not very possitive. Academicly, it’s a complete waste of time for him. Socially, I see it being stressful and not very rewarding. This was the first week of school. Days 3 and 4 he physically fought getting ready for school, kicking off his shoes repeatedly. Day 5 he had a “stomach ache” and didn’t want to go. When he’s there, he tries really hard to be good. Then I pick him up and he begs to go to the private school.”

I’d have to say after reading that, I can’t imagine continuing in the public school.

But it would be highly unusual for a public school to just agree to pay for his private schooling. Generally, the parent has to prove in court that the public school did not meet the child’s needs and the child is very delayed academically. I would be very surprised if you get the school to pay for private school.

Janis

Janis… I just typed a long, beautifully articulated diatribe that for some reason rufused to be submitted. So, I’ll just post now that IDEA does not say that autistic children are required to fail before they are given an appropriate education.

Oh, I know the frustration of losing a post!!!

Are you saying that the IDEA regulations are different for autistic children? I really did not know that. But autism is not in my area of expertise, so there could certainly be differences that I did not know about.

My child had auditory processing disorder and some associated learning problems and has an IEP. But I in no way could justify getting them to pay for private school. And she is not failing. They only have to provide their definition of “appropriate”, not whichever school I think is best.

You are very fortunate if you have a situation where you have the choice of private school paid for by the district. Let us know how your meeting turns out.

Janis

Janis, It seems to me that they have to prove “some educational benefit”. Well what the heck is that? How more broad can you get?!

Re: the “meltdowns” from large crowds, etc. I need some advice here.

Jami started school on Thursday. SHe is in 5th grade, Team teachers, and A/B days (On A day she stays with the same teacher all day) On B day she has to move back and forth) This is preparation for MS.

“A” day was great (I was SO excited)

B day she came home and says, “I don’t like my new teacher”. She wouldn’t really elaborate, tho I did find out later (and I’m going to continue slowly “investigating”) that:

1) She forgot her dana in her 1st classroom and couldn’t (?) or wouldn’t go back and ask for it. they are REALLY stressing the independence. Stress #1

2) To her CREDIT, The teacher asked her “Do you want to use the computer”. Jami replied, “I don’t know”. The teacher said, “Well, just use paper and pencil then”. Jami had to write without any spellcheck aids and SHE believes that people think she’s “stupid” b/c she can’t spell. Stress #2

3) From what I understand, the teacher does not say, “Okay, get ready to pack up and go back to A teacher for whatever”. Instead, she stops teaching, walks to her desk, sits down and says, “Goodbye”. I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that that will absolutely “discombobulate” (sp?) my daughter. On B day this is done several times and Jami is a child who has NO concept of time, so she probably sees no rhyme or reason to this “sudden” (in her understanding) change.

4) She said that she doesn’t like that all the kids have to get up and move all the time, etc.,

Finally, when I picked her up in the car riders’ line she practically BEGGED me to come in and meet her at the “bottom of the stairs” from now on, b/c “it’s too noisy” out with all the car riders.

I explained to her that next year when she gets to MS, there are going to be 4x as many kids in the hallways, lockers slamming, etc., and she’s only going to have 5 minutes to get to class. Her response, “Well, Mom, (her favorite intro), that’s NEXT year”.

Okay, having explained all that, this is the year that I PLANNED to be the absent parent - to make her take ownership of her problems, etc., and NOT be in the classroom and talking to the teacher all the time. (This is her final year of elementary).

Advice needed:

I’m THINKING that possibly I SHOULD pick her up to alleviate the “additional stress” of the car riders’ line. At least until she gets “acclimated” to all the other transitions in her day. This wouldn’t be a lot, but it would remove ONE additional “wrench in the works”.

Feedback, please?

Leah,

Yes, relieve that stress if you can. She has enough to deal with in the changes in the classroom. I’d also be calling the team to explain to that teacher she needs to prepare those kids for transitions better. I’m going to tell you, middle school is hard for regular kids, but I’d really try to find a way to put her in a smaller school during that time, if you possibly can. You probably know that Anna is in a small charter school, and one of the major reasons is that I didn’t want her to have to go to a large middle school. High schools, in my experience, are calmer than the middle schools.

Janis

Leah,

I too say do anything you can to make it easier on Jamie. She is overwhelmed. I have never understood why they have to “prepare” them a year early. So now we have middle school expectations in fifth grade. I would also talk to the teachers individually about preparing the class to move on or you could assemble the IEP team but it might be faster to talk to teachers. It seems like a lot to expect of any child for fifth grade—more like high school to me.

I also think she is a kid who will never cope less well than she can.

We’ve moved Nathan to a parochial school for this year, mostly to avoid the large public middle school. I don’t know what your options are in Jacksonville but I think Janis has a good point. In fact, we felt so strongly about it that we are having repeat fourth grade to do it. The school is ahead of the public school and everyone involved thought that was the best course of action both academically and emotionally (He is younger developmentally than his age—and plays really well with kids slightly younger than himself.)

Beth

Testing to see if this posts.

I did not intend to imply that IDEA was different for autistic children but to acknowledge that many children with LD must slip through the cracks long enough to fail for a problem to be acknowledged. We have worked hard for many years to get to the point where a maistream placement could even be consisdered. I can’t tell you how disappointed I will be if public school is truely not aable to provide him with an appropriate setting at this time. BUT… I will be even more disappointed if Alex behavior regresses any further when it comes to school. He has a very positive attitude about going to the private school. Physically fighting with him just to get his shoes on for public school this week has left me feeling quite shaken.

It might be helpful if you made a list of pros and cons for each school. Then make another list with Alex at the top and list pros and cons for each school that relate directly to Alex.

I would not consider a Montesouri school a non-mainstreamed school.

An unhappy child nakes for am unhappy parent.

Helen

I think I will pick her up on “B” days only (the days when she has to switch) which will help her stress on that day. And I guess I will have to have a chat with the teacher about the transition.

My problem is that Jami wants to go to the GATE middle school (large magnet school). As Jami says, “Well, mom, I need to go to the medical magnet if I’m going to be a veterinarian and a zookeeper”. HOW do I argue with that?

I was thinking same as you a small private school - but she’ll be disappointed that it has no gifted program (but DOES have an LD program). She probably won’t need the LD program, so she’ll just be in regular classes and there’s LOT of homework (with no accommodations like reduction, etc., that I have in the ps). Additionally, they will probably not let her use her computer and that will be like pedaling backwards.
There are NO decent LD schools in our community.

Alex’s mom,

I’ll tell you the truth, and this comes from one who works inside the system and also has a child with a learning disability. Unless the child is very high functioning and/or has such good compensating skills that it all balances out, I do not feel that public schools can provide what most LD children need. Most special ed. teachers are not trained in the methods needed to really remediate. The parents here whose children are making it are highly involved and proactive parents who have given thier children MUCH outside therapy in order to remediate their learning disorders.

But even with the best parents, we can see a child like Leah’s who is beginning to suffer with the arrangements in public school. And she isn’t in middle school yet, and it is worse. I fully supported Beth in her decision to try the parochial school for her son, as I know how traumatic a big public middle school can be for kids with special needs. There are such tremendous social pressures which descend upon the child at the same time as heightened academic demands.

Many of our kids will make improvements, but it is unlikely that they will be “cured” of their disorders. No one cares more about my child than I do, but with all my obsessive studying and taking workshops, I still can’t get a handle on exactly what she needs due to her atypical profile. Well, I have some ideas of what she needs, but I am not sure how to get her very supportive school to work in the help she needs. I hate for her to miss the regular class, but at night, she is too tired to really do therapy. Homework is challenging as it is. And of course, I have the worry… “what if it doesn’t work?”

I was just reading the end of Overcoming Dyslexia where Sally Shaywitz emphasizes the importance of keeping the child’s self-esteem intact. I agree totally. I think if the child is suffering, it will come out in other disorders such as depression, anxiety, or poor behavior.

I think your son is giving you a very strong message. Most kids love kindergarten and first grade. I’d personally not take the risk. I know many well-intentioned, loving special ed. teachers who are completely clueless about remediation. They faithfully tutor while the children never catch up. A child on the autism spectrum also has to deal with being seen as “different” by his peers. I just think preserving self-esteem needs to be high on the list. I hope you can find a way to get him in the private school. And I’d homeschool before I’d force a fearful, upset child to go to public school.

Janis

Janis,

I just started reading “Overcoming Dyslexia”. I’m already fascinated.

Leah,

I think “Overcoming Dyslexia” is an excellent book. However, the whole book is devoted to children with one particular profile: those with phonological awarness/decoding issues and who basically are very bright with few other problems. She really emphasizes the very gifted dyslexics who have become very successful in spite of their dyslexia.
I certainly think that would give parents hope.

However, there are children with reading learning disbilities who either have more problems than just decoding issues or else they have little decoding difficulty but still can’t read fluently, like my child! I’m willing to bet that the majority of dyslexic kids are just average (like the general population) and not gifted. So they may not fare as well as the doctors and lawyers that Shaywitz highlighted. Levine’s book “All Kinds of Minds” gives a better view of all the areas that could impact reading and learning, yet that book does not go into any depth about reading.

I think OD is an important book and I recommend it highly. It’s just that those of us who work with kids with reading disorders know that there aren’t many who look like the “typical dyslexic” of this book.

Janis

I believe we have enough data now to understand that the dyslexics who experience the greatest success are those with greater ability (higher IQs and I would not every discount perseverence). The child who falls in the low average range with LDs may not go as far academically.

Janis, I probably haven’t gotten far enough into the book to notice what you’ve just said. Also, Jami has the SI problems (as you can see from the above posts) as well that interfere. I’ll let you know what I think about it when I’ve finished.

Hope it’s not like “The Gift of Dyslexia”. That’s one book I did NOT care for. It was like they all have something better than everyone else. Too one sided in my opinion. Yes, dyslexics have many strengths, but too often the weaknesses so far outweigh the strengths that the strenths can go pretty much unnoticed.

BTW, I mentioned Jami’s problems with “B” day to my friend at church who is a former 5th grade ESE teacher and now a guidance counselor.

She agreed with you to mention this to the teacher immediately. SHe also said that when Jami gets to MS she thinks she will need to learn some sort of relaxation technique to prepare for the loud and busy hallways during class changes.

Said to talk to my OT about it. I do know that last year Jami has some kind of “fidget” ball (a rubber gadget with three small balls inside) for her to “play with” during class to ease transition (and that was just a reg. classroom with no changes). I guess I need to get a call into her OT pronto as well.

Thanks for your help.

Anita,

One thing my OG tutor told me. “I’ve never seen a child want to read as badly as your daughter”. She definitely is strong in perserverance.

Alex’s mom:

One thing we did in making the decision about school for our son is make a list of three pros and cons. Each parent did it separately and our son did it as well. This stopped the swirling in my head and made clear what I needed to know. I actually gave the asst. principal all of our lists.

Leah,

Is the school your daughter wants to attend “a school within a school”? One of my friend’s gifted (but not LD) son is in a magnet school feeds into the high school Internation bacaularete program. It really is quite small, despite the schools size. There is a montesorri program like that here too. The problem, for us, is that we are as far as west as you can go without landing in the Everglades and all the schools are located in Ft. Lauderdale—we’d have a 25 minute car ride to take the bus for 45 minutes. Not reasonable. But your situation may be different and the public school may be able to be much “smaller”.

Beth

Leah,

No, Overcoming Dyslexia is not like The Gift Of Dyslexia. I have not read the latter book, because I am under the impression it is not based on scientific research. OD is, of course. I think the book is wonderful. I just wish she had given one chapter to reading disorders with other underlying causes.

Janis

The magnet schools in our county were created to solve the problem of segregation without busing. It is ACROSS town for us which means I would have to get up and drive her to the other side of downtown.

The one she wants to go to has a “rigorous” academic load. (I’m not so sure it’s a good thing but she wants to go). I don’t know about the size, I guess I will call and see how many students they have. Probably would be a good idea. I’m just not so sure her introduction to MS should be rigorous on top of the everyday things you have to get used to in MS. I don’t want her overloaded, but I also don’t want to say, “You can’t do it”. Hard line, huh?

BTW, spoke to the B teacher today. She was nice, but basically said, “Well, the only way you’re going to avoid these transitions is to home school her”. I said, “Well, I have NO intention of home schooling her, so I’ll put a call into the OT. My understanding is that there are relaxation techniques she can be taught that will aid this problem”. She smiled, and I smiled.

Jami also told me this morning, Mom, we have to play Scramble (Scrabble :0) ). I said, That’s as bad as Hangman, isn’t it?” (She hates Hangman). She agreed. I mentioned it to the teacher and the teacher said they DON’T HAVE to play, some of the kids are “excited” b/c they can play on Fridays and they are very competitive. I explained that, for a dyslexic, a game of Scrabble is like a death sentence . Jami had said to me, “Mom, I will lose every game”. I told the teacher she probably just heard the word “Scrabblel” and panicked. (Afraid of looking “dumb”)

Bless her heart! Me? I would have been the kid WANTING to play Scrabble.

She also mentioned that Jami could use the “dictionary”. I told he she would use her Franklin speller, b/c for instance, if you spell “ocean” OSHUAN, you will NEVER find it in the dictionary. SHe okayed that as well and we’re bring in Jami’s Scholastic thesaurus to use.

SHe mentioned it was only the 2nd day of school. I agreed, but explained that she would never know Jami was upset, but I just wanted to give her a “heads up” on what was going on.

She was nice. We agreed to have a conference in about 3 wks. Here’s hoping.

Janis, I read THe Gift of Dyslexia when I took my 1st trip to the library after Jami was diagnosed. It was in a stack of about 12 books! I read everything that had the word dyslexia in it.

[quote=”Leah-FL”]
The one she wants to go to has a “rigorous” academic load. (I’m not so sure it’s a good thing but she wants to go). I don’t know about the size, I guess I will call and see how many students they have. Probably would be a good idea. I’m just not so sure her introduction to MS should be rigorous on top of the everyday things you have to get used to in MS. I don’t want her overloaded, but I also don’t want to say, “You can’t do it”. Hard line, huh?
.[/quote]

Leah,

Of course, every child is different, but I had the same concerns last year when my son left his special ed class and entered a private school for gifted boys for sixth grade. This school is extremely challenging and the workload is substantial. I greatly feared that my son would be overwhelmed. Much to my surprise and delight, he did spectacularly well and loved it. Even though he had to work so much harder than everyone else, he felt rewarded and inspired by the high-level content of his classes. To him, that good content made things sufficiently interesting and exciting that he was able to keep going even when it was hard. It seems like when things are easy and boring that is when he falls apart. When things are hard, but interesting he can keep going. Perhaps it will be the same for your daughter.

Andrea

It’s nice to hear that at least I’m not alone in the special ed vs gifted ed dilema. It’s Monday morning and Alex had another meltdown about going to kindergarten. I volunteered in the class and was able to observe him doing fine. The group of children I was working with were seated next to his group. While everyone else was working on writing their own names, he was writing a list. He seemed stressed this weekend, had a couple of melt downs. At Thersday’s IEP meeting I’ll be asking the other members of the “team” to tell me all of the options they can think of for Alex. I can imagine them dragging the whole process out for weeks to come. Of course, I can’t allow that. I figure I’ve got ‘till Thursday to make some decisions before things go spinning completely out of control.

Andrea,

Thanks for the encouragement. She SO wants to do well and her 1 day gifted pull out is what makes her week!

I think I’M the one afraid of failure, not her. I never would have placed her in gifted in 2nd grade with no ability to read or write on grade level. By the end of 2nd she had an AlphaSmart, by the beginning of 3rd she had a computer and now she’s got the Dana. She’s my “step up to the plate” kid.

I’m still afraid! :roll:

I told her if she did well this year, could handle getting it “all together” organizationally with the use of her Dana that we would go look at the school and I would enroll her if she liked it. I do understand that there are teachers that are much more knowledgeable about the Dana and AT in general there. However, there is “no ESE department”. So? They’ll have to bring someone else over from another school - that’s what a friend just went through with her gifted/LD son.

Most everyone I talk to tells me I should encourage her “high expectations”.

Of course, I was always the kid who never tried b/c I was afraid of failure. She is so UNLIKE me!