What should I suggest??

I am familiar with the therapies you mention. We’ve done a lot of sensory and cognitive therapy with good results. I was not clear, however, exactly what the issues for your nephew are. My sense was that it was not a reading issue but more language output related—in both speaking and writing. Am I correct? Are his receptive language skills intact? Has he received speech services? Does assistant technology like a word processing help his writing?

Beth

Okay, bear in mind that this is through the mom filter (and she’s terrific), but I’ll do my best….

Mom wants, above all, for her son to graduate from the school he is currently attending. His expressive language issues primaily appear because he is so reluctant to talk to anyone, unless he is absolutely sure that what he is saying is correct (I’m no SLP!) His thoughts sometimes seem to hit the general area of a conversation, but miss the major point.

He’s taking adderal for ADD, which does help him to focus.

In writing, he has real problems organizing his thoughts. He has great difficulty deciding what details will support a given topic, and will frequently include irrelevant details. I started to say that his writing follows a stream-of-consciousness type approach, but it’s not that organized, which is why his school is so concerned about his ability to function in high school, and this is despite instruction with student:teacher ratios between 4:1 and 6:1, and well-trained teachers.

I guess that the question is, whould he be a candidate for some sort of cognitive therapy, and if so, which one(s)? Obviously, despite an above-average IQ, and successes in content area classes, with modifications, his processing issues are interfering with his ability to succeed. Mom is becoming very discouraged.

As a sped teacher, I tend to feel that all we try to remediate is the very top of the food pyramid, when what my students really need is way more basic. I hate to see my nephew fail, when I truely believe that his parents have done exactly what I would have done in their shoes. I’m wondering what we’ve all missed. He’s precious, and is getting more discouraged every day, even at a school that should meet his needs.

Thanks for taking the time to respond,
Casey

I have to agree with Beth and suggest that assistive technology be considered also as AT can remove some of the obstacles that hinder success. Combine AT with remediation and your nephew will be more successful. Sounds like output issues are big concern.

Doesn’t sound too different from my ds, although he never had a decoding problem. We did IM with him, and I can honestly say I noticed nothing except he’s become about the best Extreme Bop-It player around. We also did five weeks of LMB’s V/V, which he deeply resented as he felt he already knew how to make pictures in his head. I can’t say I saw much in the way of results from it. We tried Brainskills—the home version of PACE—and his reaction to it was explosive. I think that that the constant metronome ticking set him off. So we set that aside after just one week. (I think these programs are very good—they just didn’t seem to be what he needed, however.)

Two things really stood out as helpful. One was Fast Forward, which he did at age 8. The gains in his language scores three months afterwards were astounding. (He also did FFWII with little effect.) The other was having him take adderall—this resulted in truly spectacular gains (1st %ile to 50 %ile) in the auditory processing subtest of the Test of Auditory Perceptual Skills (TAPS). (It is not uncommon to have both CAPD and ADD.) My ds is also in seventh and we are now experiencing a standstill in progress in the heavily language areas of school. Algebra has not been a problem, particularly since we found having him use graph paper greatly increases his accuracy and speed.

We are in the process of doing more testing, but are considering a return to language therapy or possibly locating a tutor to help with writing. This is not easy to find. He is not breaking down at the actual writing level—short written answers required for tests or homework are not the problem. It’s the essays where he is totally overwhelmed with the task of organizing thoughts and putting them down in a coherent fashion. I have a writing program I really like—IEW (www.writing-edu.com)—but he will no longer work with me. Many people here like Step Up to Writing (www.stepuptowriting.com), but I have not looked at since it’s not worth spending the money for a child who won’t let me teach it to him. You might look into these programs for you to tutor him in.

I agree that if he has not had a thorough language evaluation in a while, it’s time to do one and see if you can get further insights into the specific areas you could work on with him. Good luck—I feel for the mother—what do you do when a private LD school is raising questions as to whether they can keep your child?

This is the second case I have read about in a week where the LD school was considering not keeping an LD child. This is beyond my comprehension! Are they concerend that they have a 100% graduation rate and must weed out the kdis who potentially might not make it? I can think of no other reason unless behavior is an issue.

I am reading “All Kinds of Minds” by Dr. Mel Levine. If it were me, I’d be getting on the waiting list to take him to NC for a thorough evaluation. This child does not have a lot of time to lose. I’d not take chances with a hit or miss approach.

http://www.allkindsofminds.org/

Janis

I have a book called Childhood Speech, language, and listening problems by Hammaguchi. There is a section in there that talks about sequencing and divergent language skills that sounds a lot like your nephew, reinforcing my recommendation for a thorough speech and language evaluation. She talks about speaking and writing as being connected and it does seem to me that you are describing two different manifestations of the same underlying problem.

I am not sure what other than speech and language therapy would help such a problem. IM helps with sequencing but I thought it was more of the sort related to mathematics but it might be something to check.

Beth

In conjunction with an audiologist who can recommend an aural rehabilitation program. I would also strongly suggest the use of an assistive listening device to help not only his auditory processing deficits but his ADD. Believe me I know what I am talking about as I have auditory processing and attention and focusing issues as an adult college student and I have trained my auditory memory through the use of taping lectures and using an assistive listening device in lectures..

Has your sister tried books on tapes to help him with his langauge and development of auditory memory? I could go on and on but a competent SLP could do a thorough assessment that could lead to a great rehabiltation program.

I love the LMB programs,I am trained in them but they do not hit the receptive and expressive language developemetn that some of the kids with ADD and Auditory processing need. I have a daughter with the holes like your nephew and I am constantly trying to fill them and find more holes in her language sieve everyday…faster than I can plug them…

This is concerning. Your nephew is already placed in a private school whose program is for LD kids and they’re saying he can’t make it at their high school?

A year is a long time and a lot can change. I’d wonder if speech/language therapy even at his age would be beneficialto him. And does he use an AlphaSmart for written work and notetaking? That too might be helpful.

Must he take a foreign language or would they waive that requirement for him? In my state only two years of math are required. Could he delay taking Algebra until the 11th and 12th grade when he might be more ready for the challenge of it?

While that modifications would limit the kinds of colleges he could apply to, is that really the first concern? If the school would be willing to make some modifications to the structure of their high school curriculum for him, he might e able to remain there and graduate.

Otherwise are there other schools in your area to consider? If not, and boarding school is an option, get hold of a copy of Peterson’s Guide To the Independent Schools to see what else is out there that might better serve his needs.

Good luck.

The McGuiness’ have a book called How to Increase Your Child’s Verbal Intelligence that works on relationship between concepts, logic ect. It has many structured activities that might help him.

Beth

I have both IEW and Step Up to Writing. Step provides some physical activities for organizing thoughts, but probably wouldn’t add much to IEW.

What I would suggest, though, is Inspiration software. Someone at your school might be able to tutor your son in its use, if he won’t work with you, or look for a writing tutor who can use it with him.

You might also want to consider using TLP (The Listening Program), which he could pretty much do himself.

Did you try BrainSkills with the metronome set to a flashing light instead of the ticking?

Nancy

Having taught at a college-prep school for LD kids, honestly, it’s a tough call but there were always some kids in the middle school that would have been overwhelmed by the academic demands of the high school.
One of the biggest mistakes any school can make is to try to be everything to everybody. It is excruciating to have to send a child in need away… and often we could squeeze out an extra year by cutting back one academic class while working *hard* to develop the skills for that kiddo to succeed in a different setting (and usually parents & staff had figured out the alternative so they had something to go by). However, it’s just as painful to have a kiddo in over his head. ONe of the things that makes the school work as well as it does is that it is truly a college prep school. (The other tough reality is that there’s a waiting list. Rationing education, knowing that there are going to be students left “out in the cold” and having to choose them… aargh!)
Let me also add that there were several students who seemed to hang on by sheer hard work every year, and make just enough progress so that they made it all the way and graduated. These were real pluggers.
I”d want to know what the school’s doing so that anything added would be supportive. I know in our case, about the last thing to do would be to give a kiddo something else requiring intensive focus *on top* of the demands of the school day.

Nancy,
My ds had already done FFW when I heard of TLP. I didn’t think it would accomplish much after success with FFW. Do you know of anyone who has seen results with TLP after FFW? It seems like a pretty easy program to do that is not too disruptive and, thus, has appeal.

I didn’t try the flashing light on Brainskills—didn’t know I could set the metronome that way. Also, I think I was overly ambitious in scheduling as I was trying to set up a schedule that would allow him to finish over summer when he has no homework. I think it put too much pressure on him, which he instintively balked at.

We did try Inspiration on the 30-day free trial about a year and a half ago. He seemed to be confused (and as a result impatient) about the point of the webbing and how to organize things that had been webbed. I might go back to it as he’s older now and a much better typer and could work on it without depending on me to do the typing.

I also was interested in your comparison between IEW and Step Up. What are examples of “physical activities”? Depending on what they are, that might engage him more. (I just couldn’t picture what they could be from the website information.)

Thanks for your response.

Nancy,
My ds had already done FFW when I heard of TLP. I didn’t think it would accomplish much after success with FFW. Do you know of anyone who has seen results with TLP after FFW? It seems like a pretty easy program to do that is not too disruptive and, thus, has appeal.

I didn’t try the flashing light on Brainskills—didn’t know I could set the metronome that way. Also, I think I was overly ambitious in scheduling as I was trying to set up a schedule that would allow him to finish over summer when he has no homework. I think it put too much pressure on him, which he instintively balked at.

We did try Inspiration on the 30-day free trial about a year and a half ago. He seemed to be confused (and as a result impatient) about the point of the webbing and how to organize things that had been webbed. I might go back to it as he’s older now and a much better typer and could work on it without depending on me to do the typing.

I also was interested in your comparison between IEW and Step Up. What are examples of “physical activities”? Depending on what they are, that might engage him more. (I just couldn’t picture what they could be from the website information.)

Thanks for your response.

Your nephew sounds like my son. A tutor in algebra has made all the difference in the world for my ADHD son.

In my state the NJ department of Special Ed is running workshops for educators in using Inspiration and Draftbuilder software. You can download a copy of inspiration to use for a month. Perhaps you would have access to these programs since you are a special education professional.

Has anyone suggested that your nephew has a problem with anxiety? It is often a reason why kids are reluctant to speak. I think because my son’s ADHD went undiagnosed for so long, he developed certain behaviors to deal with life in the classroom. By saying “I don’t know” or not saying anything - the teacher moved on to the next kid and he didn’t risk embarrassment. Last year in 9th grade his algebra teacher made it hell for him by waiting until he answered - usually he mumbled something and prayed that the teacher would move on.

He sees a psychologist now and his teachers report that there is a slight improvement in his willingness to participate. Slow processing may also affect his ability to use expressive language.

Here is an older article by Richard Wanderman that you may find helpful. The observations are the same even with the passage of time.

Sorry, I sent the comment about Richard’s article without the link.

http://www.ldresources.com/articles/writing_process_change.html

We did TLP several years after Fast Forward and got some nice improvements. Most notably my son was able to manipulate sounds—we tried to do the PACE AP exercises for months without much success. After TLP, he was able to accomplish in 3 days what he had been unable to do in 4 months.

I know someone else whose daughter’s short term memory improved after TLP. She had also done both FFW 1 and 2.

An audiologist with whom we have worked told me that she thought that FFW worked more at temporal processing (speed of processing) but didn’t do much for frequency issues. TLP works more at frequency. TLP also works more with the vestibular system.

Beth

If he had 3 years of ear infections and was treated with a lot of antibiotics he could have candida. Candida is a fungus infection that a person can get systemically. When antibiotics are given they kill the good bacteria along with the bad. The good bacteria holds down the growth of fungus in the body and without it a person can get infested. Its easy to test for it. And there are books that would help you to know whether that can be part of the problem with his cognitive functioning.

I have first hand experience with candida. I got really infested and one of the symptoms I had was very impaired cognitive functioning.

It’s worth looking into.

Linda

He does have to take a foreign language to graduate, but they are thinking that taking algebra during summer school would help ease the quantity of new information that he is faced with as a freshman.

He has a laptop, but I don’t know how efficient he is using it. I’m going to be working with him to help him in writing using Inspiration for organization.

Fortunately, there are several other good school for students with learning differences in our area. The school he is currently attending, however, is the most college prep in nature. Mom is not completely opposed to transferring him, but wants to make sure she’s done what is necessary to see if it will be possible for him to remain at his current school.

nt

I really appreciate the time and thought you’ve put into your responses. It’s given me some help in the direction I’d like to take in advising my sister. Thanks to all of you!

Casey,

I had to say “oh my” when you mentioned that he might try Algebra in summer school. I think that is far to short a time for a child with LD issues. In our high schools, only the kids who are good in math take Algebra in the one semester block which is an hour and a half a day for about 20 weeks. Average and below average kids take it over two semesters. I would tend to think that only kids who are very good in math could do Algebra in a 6-8 week summer session. But honestly I did not read back through all the messages and perhaps he is on grade level in math.

Janis