Also need help with test scores!

Yikes, Jackie! Those scores are very hard to read like that. For future reference, the standard score (SS) on the WJ-III is the one that matters. (SS is scaled score on the WISC). The verbal and performance scores seem to be missing on the WISC.

She does have a very high IQ. But you really have to get the ADD under control somehow. Her overall performance is suffering and that is likely due to the ADD. Also, she may not have learned the word attack skills well enough due to the ADD in spite of ABeka being a very good phonics program. She is possibly not even LD at all. She might pick up the phonics with tutoring if the attention was there.

I have seen children with ADD have horrible handwriting unmedicated but greatly improved on medication. I am not medication pusher at all, but when a child with a 133 IQ has overall poor academic performance, then I have to think that may be the culprit. You can’t even judge things like tracking when the child has ADD which is not really under control.

I hate to say this as well, but 5 hours of reading instruction is likely not going to catch her up to where she needs to be. ABeka is a tough curriculum and she needs to be reading well to manage it. How do you know what her phonemic awareness level is? I don’t see any PA testing in these results.

Janis

I work as a tutor and yes, tutoring can do a lot of good for a kid who just needs a little extra help getting started.
Tutoring, if well designed and given enough time, can often help re-train tracking and teach phonemic awareness, but it does take time as well as a knowledgeable tutor.
Once a week is simply not enough, and five hours is just the bare beginning. I recommned a minimum of twice a week, and three times if possible if the parents can afford it. In general most people see results within the first ten hours — I had better get results, because they’re handing me cash — but kids take on average twenty to thirty hours to be coping with class work, and more than that to be well remediated.
Now, you can make up a lot of that extra time if you can work with your daughter and if a tutor will give you materials and show you how to use them, or if you can do work every day on your own.
I’m a little behind in forwarding my how to tutor notes, but email me at [email protected] and I will be sending out another batch shortly.

Woodcock-JohnsonIII (norms based on age 6-10)
Cluster/Test AE Easy to Diff RPI PR SS(68% Band) Z
_____________________________________________________________________
Oral Language SS 111
Math Calc Skills SS 110
Academic Skills SS 107
Form A of the following achievement test was administered:
Raw AE Easy to Diff RPI PR SS(68% Band) Z
_______________________________________________________________________
Letter-Word ID ss 103
Story Recall - ss 120
Unders. Directions ss 106
Calculationss 113
Math Fluency ss 95
Spelling ss 108
Passage Comph. ss 98

These are your standard scores. Think of 100 as dead average. Think of 85-110 as average. Over 110 above, below 85 is below average as a general rule.

I don’t understand what RPI means. I think AE is age equivelent and I think PR is %. I think SS is something to to with stanine, but I haven’t a clue beyond that! I don’t know the Z score or raw score either. I do know that she didn’t do well on math fluency and passage comprehension in comparion to the other scores.

For the WISC-II Raw Score Scaled Score
Picture Completion- 14 11 11
Information 10 13 13
Coding 53 15 15
Similarties 18 18 18
Picture Arrangement 24 16 16
Arithmetic 14 15 15
Block Design 22 12 12
Vocabulary 23 16 16
Object Assembly 16 10 10
Comprehension 7 7 7
(Symbc: Search) (15) 15
Digit Span 9 (9) 9

Sum of Scaled Scores: verbal 69 Performance 64 VC 54 PO49 FD 24 PS 30
IQ Index: 123 119 120 114 112 126
Full Scale: 133 Full Scale IQ Index: 123

I am not sure what all the VC, PO, FD, PS… mean. I think VC is vocabulary, but from there I am not sure. I understand her IQ is in the superior range, but she does not do well in class at all. She is ADD and has visual tracking problems. Her spelling and handwriting are both poor. She is currently on Adderall sprinkles (5mg) but will hopefully come off that this summer because of side effects. She will have to learn to swallow a pill and try Straterra. She refuses to swallow pills at this point. She HATES school. She hates reading. She knows she is the slowest one in her room. I have explained to her that she is not dumb, she has a different learning style and not everyone teaches to her learning style. Her teacher has been very sweet and has tried to work with us as best she can. My child is very bright I know, she just can’t read very well (or spell). She doesn’t do well with medial and ending sounds. She reads Dick and Jane fine, but beyond that she has trouble! Her school uses Abeka curriculum. She will be in second grade next year. I have her signed up for summer reading lessons. She will go one day a week for one hour (one-on-one) for a total of five lessons. She begins in mid June.
I also know she has some immaturity, but I don’t think it is causing the reading problems. I think the visual tracking and a poor phonemic awareness is her root cause. Anyway, I would really appreciate some explanation about these two tests she took.

Thaks so very much,
Jackie

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I took out the stuff above so you could see the standard scores. Please tell me what your background is….so I can get the whole picture? Are you a teacher? Have you ever worked with her? WHat is the tutoring program?

Michelle

Thanks to everyone for your speedy responses!
I am sorry the scores were hard to read. They didn’t post the same way I typed them.

Janis, the verbal was 69 and the performance was 64 on the WISC. It was typed down at the bottom. Again, sorry it come out the way I typed it.

Michelle, my daughter went to pre-k and kinder before entering first grade. I do work with her, and that is not always so easy. She is very hardheaded and doesn’t always want Mom to be the one to work with her. And yes, I am a teacher. My daughter goes to my school. It is a small private school. We put her in public school at the beginning of the year because we knew she needed help that our private school couldn’t offer. Our local school district was a distaster! We had to pull her out after three months. She has been much better (both emotionally and academically) since then.
The tutor is a retired elementary teacher with over thirty years experience. She has been running her summer reading clinic for over twenty years. She is familiar with working with ADD and ADHD children. She writes a lesson plan and submits a copy to me each week. She will be working one-on-one with my daughter. The lessons will pick back up once school starts again. My child will get a week or two off.

Thank you for all your suggestions and your advice everyone!

Jackien :)

Jackie,
If you want to get a handle on all of those different types of scores (ss, %, etc.) check out the article under “assessment” in the LD in-depth section of this website titled, “Understanding tests and measurements for the parent and advocate”. Great article, and good information to have.

also… I agree with the other poster who mentioned the lack of phonological awaremess testing— if that is a concern a test such as the CTOPP should be given. I’m no expert on visual issues but the coding and symbol search subtests of the WISC relate to visual tracking, and she did quite well on those. What kinds of difficulties do you notice with visual tracking?

We had our daughter tested by a psychiatrist and also by Baylor University’s Speech, Language, and Hearing Clinic. The test scores I posted were from the psychiatrist.

The diagnostic evaluation at Baylor revealed that all grammatical morphemes were present. They also gave her the Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test. She scored 120 which is above normal. The Comprehensive Test of Phonological Processing was also given. All her scores fell within normality, which is between 8-12. She scored between 8-11.
She was given the Goldman-Fristoe 2 test and scored 91. Normal is between 85-115. This test is for articulation though. She did miss ten sounds (some were due to a tongue thrust and some weren’t).

She was given the Woodcock Reading Battery. She scored 1.8 (grade level) on letter-word ID and 1.6 on word attack. They did say she read very slow though which hampered her comprehension some.

She was given a section for visual sequential memory from the Illinois Test of Psychological Abilities. She scored 31 where 26-46 is average.

She was given the Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals (CLEF 4) and her standard score fell within the standardized range for normal on this test. Her score was 96 and normal is 85- 115. She scored the very lowest on formulating sentences.

She took the Phonological Awareness Test, four sections of rhyming, segmentation, isolation, deletion, and substitution. Each sections standard score was within the normal range for this test of 85-115. Her scores were as follows:

Rhyming:
Discrimination 76
Production 106
Standard Score—96

Segmentation:
Sentences 96
Syllables 120
Phonemes 101
Standard Score—109

Isolation:
Initial 108
Final 89
Medial 109
Standard Score—99

Graphemes:
Cosonants 111
Long and Short Vowels 97
Consonant Blends 116
Consonant Diagraphs 101
R-Controlled Vowels 107
Vowel Diagraphs 96
Diphthongs 104
Standard Score—108

They felt she had a mild phonological awareness problem. When I questioned them about why she struggles so with her reading and spelling when they are telling me she did so well on the test, they said that they did see her have problems, but because she scored so well on the test she would have to go on a waiting list to get into the reading program. They then showed me her test. I was shocked when I saw that you can pass a section if you get even one out of ten questions correct on some sections!

As for the visual tracking (she has dyslexia), they are the ones that discovered it. Our doctor suspected it. Though she knows to read left to right, her mind will automatically read backwards sometimes on sentences and words and even in the middle of words. This also happens when she is working is math and when trying to locate things on a paper such as reading a map… and when trying to copy from the board. She reads and writes backwards. She has to work very hard to correct this.

Thanks,
Jackie

It’s interesting that her lowest score is “comprehension” — which is a social comprhension test. Does she have trouble with figuring out how she’s supposed to act when? (Every once in a while, though, I get a student who knows too much socially and tries to see more into the questions that is there, and gets an artificially low score).

The problem wiht her “mild” phonological processing problem is probably taht she is so strong in other areas that she hasn’t developed it. And when most things come really easily, you tend to avoid things that don’t… it just doesn’t feel right.

She doesn’t like reading — but how would she feel about working on it and getting better at it? (I’d definitely work in some kind of trade-off so it wouldn’t just be Extra Work Because You’re So Special, though that too would depend on her temperament; it would be a nifty characterlesson to learn that some things are worth extra, persistent effort…. then you do something nice once she’s agreed to it and done it a little bit.) Earobics comes to mind (http://www.cogcon.com ) and those are games so they’re even a bit fun :)

You might try having her use a pencil to point under the words and track left to right (she can also chunk words into syllables or sentences in to phrases this way). Or if she likes gadgety stuff, the EZC Reader is like a little ruler with yellow or blue see-through ridge along the top that helps keep your focus on that line — it’s fun. (Of course, spin is everything here — it could be the fad of the day, but not if it’s “somethign special.”) They’re awfully cheap, too —v http://www.trcabc.com/ezcreader.html

I am so excited! Baylor University’s Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders called today. They accepted my daughter for summer classes in Camp Success. This is the Scottish Rite program for dyslexia. It will help her with the phonemic awareness, too. God truly blessed us. Her chance of getting in this class was slim to none. She was on a very long waiting list. She was also on a waiting list to get in the speech/language class, but there were only about seventeen in front of her. She didn’t get in it. Anyway, she will go every week, Mon.-Thursday from 8:30-11:00 a.m., starting July 12. There are 100 kids behind her on the waiting list.
Maybe between the tutoring, Scottish Rite lessons, and me working with her at home, she will be able to make some headway. I just want her to be able to say, “Oh yes, I can do that.” and not have to feel like she is the only one that can’t do something. I want her to feel some success.

Sue, thank you for mentioning the ruler idea. I am going to check it out. She might like that since it is a gimmick. She refuses to use a bookmark or something similar to place under the sentences, but I just think she might like this ruler you have suggested.
As for your question about if she knows how to act in certain situations, well sometimes she really doesn’t.

Sue and I agree 99% of the time, but I am going to argue on this one. I absolutely HATE the ruler idea.
I taught a lot of tutoring students and one class of Grade 1 and 2, and I have met a lot of kids who were taught to use a ruler under the line. At first I tried to be open-minded, but the more I observed the more I saw that it was causing more trouble than it cured.
You have to move both sides of the ruler down exactly one line, a very small distance. This is a coordination effort that takes both hands and all the attention of most students I work with, and by the time they’ve found the next line they’ve lost all memory of what they were reading. The line break is not a meaning break so you lose all sense of sentence structure. A lot of students spend more time looking for their special ruler than they actually do reading.
In every case I’ve worked with, the kids *immediately* read much better as soon as I took the ruler away from them.
I do use a pointer, usually a pen, which is readily available, requires only one hand so the other can hold the book, and looks much cooler.

Jackie, that’s such good news !!!!!!!! SNoopy dance happening here ;) I do hope she clicks with the folks there … she could just take off ;)

Victoria — Good points — though this ruler isn’t under the line, it’s on top of it, and it’s a lot skinnier and lighter than a ruler (it slides a lot more easily)… and to be perfectly honest, I have never used one wtih a student — heavens, my former department head would, somehow, sense the disruption in the karma of the universe and her visage would appear over my head and say “Pencil! Pencil!” … that’s my training. However, getting other people into “pencilling” is always a bit of a long shot and nearly impossible to explain without a visual demonstration. I’ve known folks who like them, though, and, the things are cheap :-) — and, this kiddo’s main issues seem to be attentional and tracking, not fine motor.

I am going to order the EZC Readers. Sue is correct in that my child’s problems are not fine motor control, but rather focus and the dyslexia. I think the color and the slide of the “ruler” under the lines will keep the letters from jumping and keep her from losing her place. It’s certainly worth a try. I do however, understand Victoria’s point about the kids she has worked with using rulers. I can see where many would spend too much time fiddling with the ruler and forget the text.
Wish me luck!

I figure it’s a cheap investment, eh :) The trick will be to make them “cool” so everybody’s jealous (instead of “special” — we wouldn’t want that, eh?)
I’d also want to find out if they were really reading better when the ruler was taken away — becasue if it was better than before you did the ruler thing, then it’s worth doing the ruler thing for the subsequent improvement when you remove it. (I guess like that folk tale of the guy who asks the wise person what to do about his crowded house and the wise dude says “move the chickens in… and the pig,…. now the cow… okay, now, take the cow out…”) However, it’s all speculation - I’ve never done the ruler or the EZC readers. So — do let us know!!!!

Well, I ordered the EZC Rulers! My daughter really likes them. She says it actually does make it much easier for her to see the print and to stay on the right line. I have to agree with her. I tried one and it does make it much easier to see the print. I ordered the one that allows you to see two lines at one time. I also ordered some colored highlighters that can be erased. I can mark in books and erase the marks later so I don’t mare the books.
Sue, thanks for the tip.

Jackie :)

I called them EZC Rulers, but it is actually EZC Readers. They are not rulers at all! Sorry for the mistake in my post. :oops:

Excellent!

Now, if you need a good mirror for your bicycle helmet, there’s this guy that makes them out of old bicycle spokes and glass and plastic picked up off the road…. (no, really :-))