? Best program for young NVLD kid ?

It is possible that that 90%ile was pretty much a function of rote memory and would have dropped *some* anyway.
HOwever, you describe a typical messy patchwork of theories pretty much guaranteed to confuse *anybody.* I mean, imagine if you were trying to learn to play the violin and you switched teachers and philosophies every six months. When you’re trying to build a foundation you don’t change materials and methods and school of architecture in mid-build (“oh? we’re not going to build an igloo after all… let’s make it an A Frame… Oops, how about a nice rancher…. why does it keep falling down???)
Just as with reading, as you’ve figured out, if you want him to learn math you’re probably going to have to not depend on the school — unfortunately, unlike reading, there are lots of accuracy quizzes and tests and you have to decide how to handle that; you don’t want him announcing to the world “well, my parents say this math is wrong for me so I can fail all the tests and they don’t care” if you can avoid it — it makes life tedious for the teacher, and even if part of you doesn’t care and thinks s/he deserves it…. think again. It’s the kids who suffer in the long run and you’ll get major stars in your crown and a You Were Mature bonus next New Year’s Eve when you think about hte year ;)
As with reading, the “trick” is to use the strengths and work on the challenges. So… use that rote memory, and especially use verbal logic… but do also work the visual adn directional into it. Don’t expect a number line to be the anchor upon which he remembers everythign — and I’d say, don’t go from vertical (the thermometer analogy sometimes used) to horiontal — but do have a big ol’ number line posted … and expect things like fractions to be SLOW IN COMING. I suspect Singapore would work well — but be prepared to review more ******EVEN IF IT DOESN”T SEEM NECESSARY*****. (I don’t mean make the kiddo throw up… and perhaps instead of repetition, ask “why” questions.) This is the one thing I”ve learned most often dealing with NVLD and LD kiddos — they can find some really strange paths to a “right answer” sometimes that don’t hold up in the long run and it’s come back to haunt me. When in douibt, and even when not… go ahead and do a little review.

Oh, and if he understands what dividison is (but he probably doesn’t — most kids don’t and I dont’ think most adults do either) — use mnemonics for long division steps.
But give him *lots* of word problems to draw and dissect for those operations. In the “math links” section of my site I believe there’s a really interesting and cool site that talkes about different operations and how subtraction has so much more to it than “take away” and that sort fo thing… gotta fly now or I’d delve in & dig it out…

I think Math U See is a good program. It is quite visual (maybe not the strong suit of NLD kids) but it also uses stories and verbal explanation. They also really explain why and how for everything. Don’t know about Singapore math.

—des

I’m a parent, not a teacher, but I’m curious about your son’s NVLD diagnosis. You had mentioned that he’s not a clear NVLD and that dyslexia is in your family. Do you mind sharing what specific non-verbal weaknesses were identified in your son? From what you say, it sounds like he doesn’t have weaknesses across the non-verbal spectrum, but perhaps in just a few areas.

My son is 9 and in 4th Grade. We will be getting a neuropsych eval done in the next couple of months. We had one scheduled,but had to cancel for now due to a medical reason. When he was tested at 6, we were told he had a possible non-verbal learning disability, but that he was in an important developmental window and a diagnosis would be premature. Similar to your son probably, he had a very superior verbal IQ and an average performance IQ. Followup achievement tests showed him very high in mathematics (something like a 145 SS; 99th percentile). Block design on his IQ testing was pretty good (13, I think). Object Assembly was his lowest (9, I think). Testing showed his weakest link to be visual motor and they recommended an OT eval. He’s had OT and is currently doing NeuroNet. He’s also had some Vision Therapy.

I took him to a neurologist after getting these test results when he was 6 and he told me that he did probably have *a* non-verbal learning disability, but that my biggest concern should be to get him into the right school because he was very bright and it would be a negative thing for him to be bored in a regular school. In other words, be sure he’s challenged. We ended up putting him in a “regular” school in our neighborhood which we hoped would keep him interested with lots of hands on activities, etc. It’s been a disappointment for the most part.

Now my son is very stressed out at school and we’re trying to figure out what’s going on. He’s presenting with some very classic ADD symptoms now (he’s always been on the fringe, but in the past few months his “symptoms” have worsened dramatically!). It’s confusing, because typically attention problems are a symptom of a processing weakness (IMO). Like you, there is some dylexia in our family (my husband!) I have heard that you can be dyslexic and still read. My son was a very early reader, but he’s a horrible speller. I think it’s because he never had any reading instruction and never had to sound words out the way most kids have to. I’m looking at giving him some phonics instruction just for his spelling.

Anyway, our kids could be similar. Long division was a bit of a hurdle last year, but not too bad. The multi-step part got him stressed for a while. He was still having to put too much thinking into his basic math facts which made the motor part of the long division that much more challenging. I do have concerns about math (as evidenced by the many questions I’ve posted on this board recently :) !

I did audiblox some with my ds last year. I really think it helped him with some of his basic math facts, but we stopped right at the number of hours they say you start seeing changes. There was no way to do it once school went back.

I’m a parent, not a teacher, but I’m curious about your son’s NVLD diagnosis. You had mentioned that he’s not a clear NVLD and that dyslexia is in your family. Do you mind sharing what specific non-verbal weaknesses were identified in your son? From what you say, it sounds like he doesn’t have weaknesses across the non-verbal spectrum, but perhaps in just a few areas.

My son is 9 and in 4th Grade. We will be getting a neuropsych eval done in the next couple of months. We had one scheduled,but had to cancel for now due to a medical reason. When he was tested at 6, we were told he had a possible non-verbal learning disability, but that he was in an important developmental window and a diagnosis would be premature. Similar to your son probably, he had a very superior verbal IQ and an average performance IQ. Followup achievement tests showed him very high in mathematics (something like a 145 SS; 99th percentile). Block design on his IQ testing was pretty good (13, I think). Object Assembly was his lowest (9, I think). Testing showed his weakest link to be visual motor and they recommended an OT eval. He’s had OT and is currently doing NeuroNet. He’s also had some Vision Therapy.

I took him to a neurologist after getting these test results when he was 6 and he told me that he did probably have *a* non-verbal learning disability, but that my biggest concern should be to get him into the right school because he was very bright and it would be a negative thing for him to be bored in a regular school. In other words, be sure he’s challenged. We ended up putting him in a “regular” school in our neighborhood which we hoped would keep him interested with lots of hands on activities, etc. It’s been a disappointment for the most part.

Now my son is very stressed out at school and we’re trying to figure out what’s going on. He’s presenting with some very classic ADD symptoms now (he’s always been on the fringe, but in the past few months his “symptoms” have worsened dramatically!). It’s confusing, because typically attention problems are a symptom of a processing weakness (IMO). Like you, there is some dylexia in our family (my husband!) I have heard that you can be dyslexic and still read. My son was a very early reader, but he’s a horrible speller. I think it’s because he never had any reading instruction and never had to sound words out the way most kids have to. I’m looking at giving him some phonics instruction just for his spelling.

Anyway, our kids could be similar. Long division was a bit of a hurdle last year, but not too bad. The multi-step part got him stressed for a while. He was still having to put too much thinking into his basic math facts which made the motor part of the long division that much more challenging. I do have concerns about math (as evidenced by the many questions I’ve posted on this board recently :) !

I did audiblox some with my ds last year. I really think it helped him with some of his basic math facts, but we stopped right at the number of hours they say you start seeing changes. There was no way to do it once school went back.

Yes, a strong rote memory should yield high early math scores. I am sorry Saxon was such a disaster. I thought it had a good reputation. I am suspicious that the school had just purchased one workbook and employed the photocopier. He had no text or manipulatives. There must be much more to the program or no one could possibly be happy with what we were given. Now we need to work ahead of the parochial class and find a suitable program where he will enjoy math and excell.

It sounds like you didn’t really get the Saxon program. Doing less than half of *any* program will generally be a recipe for disaster. So is using bits and pieces of random programs without a plan.

I have heard good revies of Singapore math although I haven’t seen it myself — it sounds like a very well planned program. One warning with Singapore is that the grade numbers are British/European; they have “preparatory” classes at age 6 and then “first” year at seven — so their book 1 is North American Grade 2, and so on; you start with a book one number less than your grade for the age level, and go back another level if you need review.

What exactly is NVLD? I’ve been a special ed. teacher for 21 years and haven’t heard that term. I consulted with our school psychologist and she hasn’t heard it either. Having taught in two states I realize different states use different terms.

NVLD isn’t a local term, not surprised that you haven’t heard of it but a bit surprised with school psychologist. This stands for NonVerbal Learning Disability. These are really a set of learning disabilities that follow a pattern generally ascribed to right hemisphere (way over done) function like math, directionality, pattern recognition (ie jigsaw puzzles, etc.), social skills (understanding body language, etc.); gross motor skills. Generally kids with NVLD are very verbal, have good reading decoding (but not as good comprehension). There’s a great website:
http://www.nldline.com/

There is a somewhat similar set of problems called Aspergers. The big difference tends to better pattern recognition in AS and the tendency to have a very strong overriding interest/ obsession on one subject. AS is usually, but not always thought to be on the high end of the autism spectrum.

Your school will statistically have quite a few students with these.
I think your school psychologist should be educated.

—des