getting LD diagnoses for child

Not an expert on those tests, but it certainly does not look like a 5th grade reading level. My bet is the other school’s testing was inaccurate.

The drop in grades at this level is commonly due to poor decoding skills.

What I would recommend is getting the one of the Rewards reading programs from Sopris West and teaching her at home using this approach. The programs are scripted, so it is easy for a parent to do. They are *excellent* for developing multi-syllable word attack skills, which is the area that most children reading poorly at this grade level need work on.

Website for this program is http://www.rewardsreading.com. There is also a newer Intermediate version of this program for students reading at a 2nd grade level or better. Based on the information you provided, though, I would try the original version first. There are sample lessons provided so you can check out the vocabulary level — which is the main difference between the two levels. I prefer the original because the scripting is so easy to follow.

Nancy

I would definitely ask on what measure she showed a fifth grade reading level (in writing), since all of the tests you know of show that she is several grade levels behind. I would ask for an immediate beginning of accommodations for the reading, if that is what is depressing her grade.
I would also take steps to teach her to read, since even if you can get the school to acknowledge a problem, the reason behind their denial is that they don’t have the resources to fix it, and that’s not likely to change quickly.

The 700 Lexile would fall within the average range for a 5th grader, so I am not sure how low she is. It is possible that she was behind, but just not delayed enough to qualify.

I also like REWARDS, but I’d recommend the Intermediate level for 4th-6th graders unless the child has a very advanced vocabulary. The intermediate level has words like threadbare, persevered, pneumonia, vermin, mainsail, unconventionality, vigilant, and plenty of other words I don’t hear typical 5th graders using! As a matter of fact, I’d likely use the intermediate up through middle school age.

It might be good to try giving her a decoding survey to see where her decoding skills stand. I’d use the advanced decoding survey here:

http://www.cdl.org/resource-library/library_browse.php?type=author&id=11

You will have to know phonics well yourself in order to give and score this correctly. But you can let us know how she does and we may be able to give you a little more specific advice.

Janis

Thank you soo much for this information. We have tried to help her iwth tutoring and we read with her a lot. The main problem with us teaching her is that by the time we get her homework done the evening is over (did I mention I have a 8 year old (reading at a 5th grade level) and twin 3 year olds 1 with special needs). I am not trying to make excuses but I feel like a sinking ship most days.

I can’t wait to give the evaluations you recommended. With Christmas break this week it seems like the perfect time. I have looked at the rewards program but am a little confused which program exactly to look for. Any luck finding these on Ebay? Are financing is very limited.

Thanks again.

Kris

You’ve only got the time you’ve got - sounds like you’re doing a good job :-)

I know I have sometimes had to spend a lot of time getting homework done that wasn’t doing anything to help a student learn. Since this was high school there wasn’t any room for negotiation. And if it just takes that long to do the homework, but it’s helping her learn the stuff, then I would keep plugging along.

However, if the homework isn’t really the best way for her to learn the stuff (often, I find we could really learn 5 terms or concepts… but hte homework assignment is to answer 25 questions with 25 terms… so we’ve looked at 25 but learned NONE), you might want to get a little creative. GIve lots of help on some of it… and study and work extra with other parts.

And try to do something with reading & writing that’s kinda sorta FUN - like a good story…

I’ll tell you honestly, Kris, I am an LD teacher and I have trouble finding the time needed to do remedial reading with my own child. So I understand completely.

The REWARDS Intermediate is new, so you won’t find it on ebay. I search for items like that all the time on ebay and collect them for myself and for parents. The upside is that you can easily resell something like REWARDS on ebay and gte a good bit of your money back.

Here is the link:

http://www.rewardsreading.com/

It is the red intermediate book that you’d want: teacher guide and student workbook. However, I’d still recommend that you give her that decoding survey I posted earlier before buying anything.

One other thing you can do is time her reading from a 5th grade level book for one minute. Count the errors and subtract that from the total number of words read. Tell us those numbers.

Janis

I did give her the grade 3+ spelling test and the answers I got were:

Slime-slim
foil-fooled
firm-furm
carrying-caring
dripped-driped
behave-behaive
develop-divelope

I will be trying the decoding tomorrow. I’m not sure the 5 grade spelling test is necessary but I will try it anyway.

As for the timed reading, do you know which book would be a good one? Every book I found has a different grade level depending what program you use. We have at least book from most of the popular series books (i.e. Little House, Judy Blum books, Junie B., Boxcar,Mary Kate and Asley, and Dear diaries) Any other suggestion I could get from the library.

Thanks
Kris

These are what are called “high-quality errors” in spelling. She is showing a good basic knowledge of the general phonics patterns and left-to-right scanningand encoding. This is GOOD news. She needs to work on the vowel patterns and on not omitteing middle syllables, but you have a great foundation to work on.

I take kids at this level and review/teach in depth Scholar’s *Check and Double Check Phonics* Books 2 and 3; along with continued spelling practice this makes a huge difference — you can use the lists from AVKO with more syllables and long vowel combinations, or the lists from the back of “Why Johnny Can’t Read”, or any other program that teaches spelling by sounds and phonetic patterns.

For books to read, Boxcar Children is fairly easy, Grade 2-3 vocabulary although it is rated higher reading level becasue of sentence length. Little House is a big jump ahead of that, Grades 5-6 at least I believe. I would recommend as many classics as possible; commercial series lack depth and tend to have low amounts of running text. I always use a relatively easy book to evaluate kids, so Boxcar Children is a good place to start.

Kris,

Most of those books are below 5th grade level, I think. Victoria is probably right about Little House being above Boxcar Children. You can look up Lexile levels on www.lexile.com. I am on my way out of town or I could look them up for you. You definitely do not need to give the 5th grade and up spelling test, because she had errors at the last level that need work. Just give the timed reading on about 3 different passages. If you have any of her textbooks at home, that would be good for one of them.

I’ll be back early next week and we can talk more about what you should do next. But when you get a chance, do the decoding survey and the timed readings.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Janis

I did do the decoding skills survey. It was the advanced one. These are the errors she had:

word said
weaf wef
yume yummy
soid sewd
fout fut
zoy zo
shaffen shafen
slifnate sluvnate
padestic paidstec
wrecker wracker
demonstrate demestistrat

I will try the Little House Books. I also will look to find a classic, maybe like Charlotte’s Web?

I want to thank you. You have no clue how much it helps just to have someone take me seriously that she is having trouble. Just doing something has helped me. I felt so useless.

Thanks again,
Kris

THese are, like the spelling, “good” errors. She probably associated “weaf” with “deaf” instead of “leaf” - but she was associating sounds with letters.

Now, they’re “good” mistakes… but they don’t go away by themselves and they’re still pretty basic. THings pretty much break down as soon as the words get a little longer. SHe’d probably sail right through something like “Reading Reflex” and still be utterly bogged down at the bigger words… many programs assume that once you’ve got the basics, intuition can take over.

Two programs that might really help her - and I”d go to the PTA or whatever and see if they wold spring for ‘em ‘cause they’d be good for other students, too - would be the Word Workshop http://www.thewordworkshop.com/ or Lexia Learning’s Strategies for Older STudents ( www.lexialearning.com ) - both of these teach breaking words down into syllables and working with multisyllable words. THe word workshop is a lot cheaper, but it is also a sort of complicated ‘system’ for figuring out long words, so unless she’s pretty motivated and can handle learning a process like that, the Lexia stuff might be a whole lot better. She could really stand an overview of some of the basic rules & patterns — that there are six basic kinds of syllables and some pretty predictable pattenrs for dividing longer words.

Another really good resource is Anne Tuley’s Never TOo Late To Read, which outlines a multisensory strutured approach to teaching older students with some background already. I’d see if the librarian had funds to get it, ‘cause it’s also complicated enough that it could turn into a book that you look at and grimace because you didn’t quite have the time or resources to make good use of it… but if it’s on the library shelves you can scarf ideas from it and share them :)

Have you already asked for my outlines/book in progress? If you have, I have a month’s worth of requests piled up and will send them shortly; we are finishing the painting in a couple more days (Oh, Lord). Plus a couple of ice storms and the saga of the used cars.
If not, please email me at [email protected]

In a couple of these outlines I describe how I drag students through from single syllables and short vowels (where your child is now) into managing multisyllables. A combined approach: (1) *advanced* phonics teaching — I use a series called Check and Double Check Phonics from scholarschoice.ca (very inexpensive and good traditional work). For students on the level of your child, I review Book 2 with the vowel patterns etc. and teach Books 3 on syllables etc. Depending on the student, I may teach the two books in sequence, or I may parallel them, one or two pages from each level each session. Your daughter seems to be at the leavel where I would parallel them because she so clearly needs both and you want to upgrade quickly. (2) Oral reading with modelling of the *use* of these vowel and syllable rules, and immediate correction and feedback when the student makes errors. (3) Corrective handwriting with stress on directionality and automatizing the process. (4) Training isn spelling by sound and syllables, dictating words syllable by syllable to teach how to do this.
This takes time, a year or so of tutoring to get up to where you want to be, but it does work and work well.

I hope you don’t mind be butting in on this, but I saw this thread and saw how similar thae problems your daughter was having to my daughter’s. So I decided also to try giving my daughter this test. Uuugh, she did much worse than I expected but I swear half her problem is lack of ability to focus then we add on the actual reading ablility issues. In my daughter’s case she could read mostr of the real words, but the nonsense words she was very impulsive answering, it took her a couple tries.
Anyhoo, sorry for hijacking your thread. Just interesting to see such similarities.

Almost every child I see with reading problems has a breakdown at not being able to read the vowels, especially the vowels spelled with more than one letter (digraphs, etc.). She most definitely needs decoding instruction.

When I tutor a student like this, I first use AbeCeDarian level B (or Short B if they are sight reading at third grade level or above), and then I’d go straight into REWARDS Intermediate.

Here is the site for ABeCeDarian:

www.abcdrp.com

Janis

Okay so I tested her on the timed test (after a 1/2 hr. of arguing. Would have been faster to just read the one minute :roll: Kids!)

I found a book we got for Christmas that I thought looked harder than Junie or Liilte House. I got 61 words 1 mistake. I then tried her textbook and got 39 with 3 mistakes. Not sure about the difference. I will try Little house tomorrow.

Any suggestions getting her to cooperate. I have tried not letting her play Gamecube or computer until she reads but this almost makes it worse. She sees it as punishment.

Thanks
Kris

Sometimes making it a requirement at first, but hten working something into it so she can measure and see progress (like number of mistakes or being able to summarize… or perhaps speed if it doesn’t mess up accuracy) can help - or finding a good story. (How old is she? I had some extremely reluctant readers absolutely riveted to Space Station Seventh Grade, even though I occasionally had a little trouble reading it aloud… they were eighth grade boys so I made *them* read out loud or silently, their choice, the three or four hysterically funny but potentially blushworthy… totally ‘seventh grade blushworthy… segments. Then there are those Captain Underpants books that grab somewhat younger kiddos… but you would probably know her best and know what she’d get absorbed in despite not wanting to like it because mom’s making her read…)