Math and nonverbal learning disorder

DOn’t expect the schools to do any better — if there are other reasons, fine, but I’ve been a sped teacher and most of them really don’t understand teaching math at all. Most of them, just like you, use curriculum and are frustrated with them. Only thing is, at the end of the year, they get a new crop of kids to wokr with.

You might want to post on the math board and see if Victoria responds. I believe she posted very long ago that she has NLD but was able to learn math with a very verbal approach. She got a very patient teacher who allowed her to ask questions about every little detail and work her way verbally through all aspects of math.

Also, check out “The Source for Visual-Spatial Disorders” published by LinguiSystems. It’s a wonderful book with many suggestions for helping, in this case, someone with a specific NVLD involving math and spatiality, learn well enough to go on to Smith College.

The authors recommend using the person’s very strong verbal skills as the way to learn math. I work with a boy who has similar difficulties and I’ve found that by saying constantly, “Talk it through”, he can hang onto the work. I use the Montessori math materials with him. The math materials suggested in the book are nearly all found within the Montessori curriculum.

Have you tried On cloud Nine by LMB? If your child has NLD, I would imagine that she/he? has trouble visualizing numbers? If that is the case, try NIne after you have improved visualizing print in the program Visualizing and Verbalizing by LMB. They would be worth your while. If you need help, email me directly.vickie wrote:
>
> How do I teach math, wroting or geograph to a child
> with a NVLD. We have been homescooling about one year and
> always end up frustrated with curriculums that don’t work. At
> least now I know why(new diagnosis as of middle of January).
> I will possibly put her back in public school for special ed
> on a parttime basis if I can’t figure this out.

Vickie, how old is your son or daughter? This will determine a lot for the choices of learning techniques. Saxon Math is a wonderful math curriculum for kids with learning differences. My 7th grade son, who is currently on 4th grade math level, does really well with the Saxon math, because is reinforces and repeats math concepts in a very orderly form. It is also excellent for its’ basic skills, and math higher thinking concepts. Good luck!

I like Saxon math too. I’ve found, though, that the NVLD kids need words, loads and loads and loads and loads of them before they can visualize what’s being discussed in the Saxon math books. They need tons more hands-on than most kids and they need to talk about it. Really, articulating what’s going on seems to be the path that works.

I think it’s because for many of the NVLD kids who are struggling with math, their strength is the left hemisphere where words dominate. They think in those little, discrete pieces whereas math, including the Saxon way, is really taught via whole picture concepts. So you have to harness that verbal strength to get math concepts across. The Source for Visual-Spatial Disorders was a godsend for me in explaining that clearly and suggesting good ways to work with such kids.

So I would take a really good math program like the Saxon one and combine it with every single manipulative I could find. I’d have the child speak his or her way through each process. “Talk it through” should be the motto each and every day.

The audiblox people say non verbal disorders are easier to remediate than language issues. Audiblox deals with non verbal issues rather specifically.

Try www.audiblox2000.com

It is an excellent thing to try if you are homeschooling. The biggest drawback is that it really requires you do it intensively to get results and that is difficult if you are not homeschooling.

I also found that interactvie metronome dealt well with my son’s sequencing issues and pretty much solved his math problem.

www.interactivemetronome.com

I wonder if Connected Math would be a good choice for NLD. I noticed over on the math board that people were complaining that it is so highly language-based, kids with language-based LD’s have trouble with it. Might be just the thing for NLD.

Angie

Thank you for your words of praise.
I believe you have combined what you remember about me with what someone else said as well, but the general drift of your advice sounds like a good start.

I and may daughter and many other members of our family have several symptoms that sound exactly like LD’s, except that we learn pretty well and many of us are excellent students (some of the boys, especially with cultural pressures, became minor troublemakers, but that’s another issue.)

My daughter and I:
- have severe visual issues
- have real problems with time
- have severe organizational issues
- have directionality problems
- have peculiar memories, absent-minded professor syndrome
- have trouble remembering faces and names in particular
- have social issues, especially in group situations
- were dysgraphic all through elementary school, but slowly pulled up

- are top honours students
- are good to excellent in math (I went back and got my math degree) but have “blips” now and then, dropping from A to F, when we meet a teacher/professor who teaches solely in verbal strings and thinks this is “explaining”

Sounds like NLD, except it doesn’t, right? We just don’t fit well into pigeonholes.
Anyway, from this strong personal experience and from teaching experience and reading, I can give you some general ideas.

When I was young I was lucky that my elementary schools had an absolutely excellent program called “Arithmetic We Need”. They not only had the good books, but supervised the teachers and made sure the program was being taught as planned (what a radical idea!) I have collected the books and will use them myself if any parents have the patience to have their students really taught fundamentals.
This program has several facets that make it work:
There is very very little unattached drill. Perhaps one page in five has a list of purely mechanical problems. The mechanics are taught and taught well, but they are taught in a form related to reality.
Problem-solving is the point and purpose of the whole program. 80 to 90% of the book is problems, written out in words and paragraphs (The phrase “word problems” is redundant — how else do you expect problems to be communicated to you in real life? Ever seen people in an office frantically filling out dittoed worksheets?) The problems are part of continued stories and often one problem continues from the previous, one, so there is a sense of connection and logic. The subject matter is real — making crafts, cooking, shopping, travelling, building, etc.
Parallel to the words are good clear illustrations. The illustrations are not decoration, but are active parts of the lessons. For example when fractions are taught, there is a set of bars showing 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5. Students are asked which fraction is biggest and which is smallest. (a real conceptual difficulty for many people!) When division is taught, arrays of numbers are drawn and students are to copy them and divide them into equal groups by circling. When area is taught some cut and paste activities are recommended. And so on.
The lessons are marked O for Oral and W for Written; half the book is intended to be oral discussion, ie the math is to be actively *taught*, not just handed out as worksheets (This what the Third International Math and Science Study praised as “developing concepts”)
Several pages give direct concept development exercises — pages of “problems wiothout numbers” ask you to figure what operations are needed (a powerful thinking tool and a huge weakness of my algebra students); pages of missing number problems help you to “undo” operations and lead to later algebra, and so on.

This is what worked and worked very well for me:

multisensory - language AND pictures AND concrete activities
teaching *how* to visualize and verbalize math concepts
multiple viewpoints and approaches on every problem
real teaching, developing concepts in the context of discussion
interrelationships
the logic of interrelationships
mathematics as a natural part of real life
mathematics as a useful tool for solving interesting questions
high expectations BUT with appropriate tiny steps up to the big goals
stress on accuracy, speed, and automatism in skills, NOT as a goal or value in itself but as a way to do the interesting stuff
stress on accuracy and meaning *first*, speed *later* (something I also stress in teaching reading!)

A lot of new programs claim to do these things, for example the claims of Everyday Math. Unfortunately many of these tend to focus on one facet and ignore the others; for example from what I hear, EM stresses the verbal reasoning and concrete figuring-out, but misses entirely the accuracy and automatism in number skills, and lacks a lot of the visual training, especially as they refuse to use a textbook.
I have heard positive things about Singapore Math, especially in the training of visualization — haven’t seen it but the word on the street is good.
One caution with Singapore is that their grades are a year in advance of North America, so their Book 4 is actually a high-level Grade 5 here; this has frustrated some people who tried to force to “grade level” too fast. Also I hear that the workbooks are good and definitely should be used. (Workbooks cost money and take time, but how much money and time does school failure cost in the long run?)

Whatever system you use, the program is half in the materials and half in *how* you implement them. You have to go for those three dirty little four-letter words, time and hard work. You have to start where the student is and work from there. If you have to re-teach K and 1, do it. Tell the student you will review the old stuff and then when you get back to new stuff it will make more sense. Most kids will do review if they understand they’re not being downgraded forever, and they appreciate finally understanding things. You have to slog away step by step. Most of us are better following a well-planned sequence than trying to re-invent the wheel, so it’s best to first choose the best program you can find, and then follow it through teaching every lesson, in order. Take your time and do it right — there is no value in a fast mistake. Speed comes with mastery, not the other way around.

Good luck and feel free to email me and ask for advice on specific issues.

When I started homeschooling I asked a good college friend who was excellent in math and had started homeschooling her kids what she recommended.

She recommended a new abacus based curriculum method. I was skeptical at first, but because of my confidence in my friend, ordered the basics.

Since then, the program has expanded and is growing quickly.

I am now a big proponent of the abacus method. And the great thing is, I didn’t know a THING about the abacus, and you don’t need to! The books walk you step-by-step in what to say and the WHY behind the concepts.

My son is easily distracted, and in 2nd grade still can not add 5 + 4 quickly/consistently, no matter how many times we review. The abacus allows his mind to wander and still come back and focus, in his time. He can add ten digits at once, he can add or subtract any numbers up to 100. Better yet, in those moments when he CAN stay focused and I ask him a question, sometimes he doesn’t even need his abacus (his security) and I can visibly see him shifting beads in his mind and give me an answer!

What it does, is enable a child to picture any number up to 100 in their minds.

We had done SOME work with blocks/base 10, when he was in Kindergarten, but it was too awkward to stack/form/re-organize them.
This has been a terrific method for us. I strongly encourage others to look into it!

We have been using the AL Abacus workbooks and methods, although I’m sure there are others out there. www.alabacus.com

Saxon Math is great. My son had it at his school for a little while before somene decided it shouldn’t be there. It is the repeating of the steps that does the trick.

I have a learning disability as does my son.

I made D’s F’s in math in school. I recentlly decided to take college courses. (I am in my 40’s)

I was scared, because of my school experiences. But I have an A in every course. Of course, It takes me a long time to do the work. That is why I can only take 2 a semester.

In Algebra, I do the homework, as I do a problem with many steps, I write the steps in words down beside my problem. Sometimes I do this every time I do a problem. I will write out every word. I also say them out loud.

Before a test, I don’t sit and tire my self out working problems. I go back look at my work, read my notes, and say the steps out loud.

Out of 25 students in my college class. I made the highest grade. I actually made 100’s on a couple of test! I have never ever done that in math before.

Plus it helps to have a teacher who teaches the way you learn. That is how they shoud put students in classrooms. According to the way they learn. But the question is, “When will the school systems realize this?”

Shan

The Touchmath 1:1 series of workbooks (for homeschool parents) was the “magic” for my son. It is multisensory, has the kids vocalize the steps, has lots of repitition, and the worksheets are clear cut for kids with visual processing problems.

Jody