More Wilson

If you hand him some uncontrolled reading (say for example an old Grade 6 anthology) to read *cold*, how does he do? If he is adequate for his age, well, no need for anything special any more. If he is still stumbling badly, I would ask serious questions about the test administration — too much “help” maybe? No supervision of cheating?

I would guess that your kid is not “cheating” but that he may have learned to take the tests. One possibility is that he isn’t really reading them. He can read a few key words, goes into the text of the paragraph and gets out the info needed for the test. Good survival (ie test taking skills actually) but not necessarily reading skills. Might try getting him tested privately on the Woodcock Johnson (or see if the school would do it— I would do that if he were in my class). The subsections on that test are a lot more sensitve and a lot less easily “tricked”. Another possible test is Gray’s Oral Reading. (you might have to hire someone to do this.) I would not base your assumptions on the standardized reading tests as given in public schools. I have even seen problems with individualized quick tests like subsections of the Brigance. For example, they have the kid read groups of words that are supposedly graded. With a good sight vocabulary the kid will get a lot higher than they should, as they throw words like “newspaper” and “printer” into the 5th grade level. Some of the kids got the comprehension tests at 5th grade and missed them at 4th. I examined the passage and saw that the 5th grade test had very predictable answers and questions, even though the vocabulary was somewhat harder.

Barring testing with a better instrument, that you can see how he would read challenging material on a 6th or higher grade level. There *are* kids who see the logic of the code using Wilson or other OG program and really sail with it. They go a lot higher than they “should” be. I had one girl who started being able to spell very long words and reading stuff like “Wrinkle in Time” without much help. She was not much farther along in the actual program than your son.

I would keep him in Wilson IF he doesn’t do well in the above situations.

—des

Des:

<<Good survival (ie test taking skills actually) but not necessarily reading skills. Might try getting him tested privately on the Woodcock Johnson (or see if the school would do it— I would do that if he were in my class). The subsections on that test are a lot more sensitve and a lot less easily “tricked”. Another possible test is Gray’s Oral Reading. (you might have to hire someone to do this.)>>

Actually he is a student of mine—not my son. And I did give him the WJ-III Tests of Achievement and the Gray Oral Reading Test III last year for his initial assessment. I can see how he does again, since his AR is coming up in a couple of weeks. And I’m going to also try Victoria’s suggestion to see how he well he can read 6th grade text on his own.

Thanks for your suggetions.

A “little” can go a long way with a bright kiddo when you don’t wait ‘til tenth grade… but consider that hyou may have provided him with the structure & scaffolding so that he can get to success on that lexile test now… but that doesn’t mean that will hold up as the reading continues to get harder. (That, and psychologically it seems to fly against good sense to stop just when he’s getting honest success!)
I, too, would want either a formal assessment - like the GORT where I could hear him read and listen for his errors - or an informal one where I’d do the same thing.

Woops sorry! I did read your post. I start saying “your kid”, meaning your student kid, and then end up like he’s your son or something. :-)
I think the suggestions are all sound. I also do like Sue’s thoughts on this. It is true that as he goes on in school, he will experience more challenging material. Wilson is the best way to do this (aside from another OG program) to get him there in a structured way. Since it sounds like you are doing your job, no telling what he might run into later. That’s how I feel about schools anyway.

—des

[quote=”Marilyn”]Des:
Actually he is a student of mine—not my son. And I did give him the WJ-III Tests of Achievement and the Gray Oral Reading Test III last year for his initial assessment. I can see how he does again, since his AR is coming up in a couple of weeks. And I’m going to also try Victoria’s suggestion to see how he well he can read 6th grade text on his own.

Thanks for your suggetions.[/quote]

What reading inventories or tests have you given him to show his reading level/fluency/etc?

Have you listened to him read graded passages? At about what level does he read fluently, accurately, and with comprehension?

I am a very experienced teacher with Orton Gillingham (using Wilson and SPIRE materials), Lindamood-Bell, and many many other comprehension/fluency methods for varied learner types.

I have not run into a student who reads at grade six level but who also cannot decode simple v-ce words. I have run into students in grade six who can decode the one-syllable v-ce words but who cannot decode the multi-syllable words that are also presented in books 4/5 of Wilson. They are usually able to read Gr 2/3 level material and sometimes grade 4 depending on how quick they are at context clues.

Tell me more about your learner.

No, I think the limit as far as reading level for purely visual and contextual approaches is about 2-4th grade. Maybe 5th for a kid with just incredible visual memory. I think the later would be highly unusual but I have one kid in my classses that might fit that. (He’s also retarded and has some autistic traits, so that might explain the visual memory.)

—des

>I have not run into a student who reads at grade six level but who also cannot decode simple v-ce words. I have run into students in grade six who can decode the one-syllable v-ce words but who cannot decode the multi-syllable words that are also presented in books 4/5 of Wilson. They are usually able to read Gr 2/3 level material and sometimes grade 4 depending on how quick they are at context clues.

I just saw that you gave him the GORT. What were the fluency and comprehension scores? Percentiles would be fine.

des — a couple of years ago I *did* have a student with that incredible visual/verbal memory. She had been a prize student through Grade 3 or 4, started finding work hard in Grade 5, and came to me in Grade 6 because she had stalled out. I checked out her reading of connected text and we ended up doing Harry Potter. I started her on Book 2 of the phonics series, with digraphs and vowel combinations, thinking she would do it quickly for review — then found she really needed to do Book 1 as well because she was hopeless with even short vowels and not entirely secure with single consonants (no kidding). When reading a book, if I helped her with a multisyllable word that was in her speaking vocabulary, things like “intelligent” etc., then when she saw it again she would rattle it off as if she knew it. The cracks showed in two ways: two days later she reacted to the same word as if it was Greek; and given unfamiliar words or names (such as McGonagall) she was lost. We were making progress when I had to leave the area to come back here so I don’t know if she ever got to read beyond that level.

I had such a student once, too. Amazing visual memory - but/ and almost no idea what to do with a word that she didn’t recognize.

She did okay with the basics of phonics (perhaps, though, visually and not auditorially); I made a special list of multisyllable non-words (and more obscure real words) like “plentinurgy” or “occlomedial” that she gradually got to enjoy parsing out.

Well funny thing I think. I have a couple kids I am using multisensory Ortonish techniques who are retarded. Some of them are doing a lot better at the decoding tricks, etc than the regular ld kids. I am guessing they are remembering things better and so on. I will guess that when it comes to connected text (we haven’t gotten to anythign too complex yet), they will have trouble if they can’t use the typical contextual cues or lack the actual vocabulary. Anyway a couple of them can seemingly sound out nearly anything, but they tell me “that’s not a word”. As I said, I think this all is more unusual than not.

–des

One of the points Reid Lyon made y’ars & y’ars ago at a conference was that basically, decoding ability was pretty much independent of general intellect. It was about as likely to correlate with your ability to broad jump.

Sue:

<<One of the points Reid Lyon made y’ars & y’ars ago at a conference was that basically, decoding ability was pretty much independent of general intellect. It was about as likely to correlate with your ability to broad jump.>>

I’ve heard that as well. And I believe it’s quite true. A few years ago, we had an intellectually disabled student in our school who was a fantastic decoder! Unfortunately, when this child was in fifth grade, one of the reading teachers (of all people) insisted at a meeting that this child could read at fourth grade level!!! Sure, she could decode at that level, but her comprehension skills never really got past a 1.5GE!

To Everyone Who Responded to My Original Post:

When I get a chance to check my student’s most recent scores for his annual review, I will share. However, we can all take comfort in the fact that I did not exit my student. And I’m so glad! We just graduated to Book 5—Open Syllables and we’re on Substep 5.3. Good things are happening with that whole group!

Marilyn

Good to hear :-)

It happened often to me, too… sticking with things longer than I thought (intuitively) was necessary led to long-term good things… happens in more than just reading :-)