OG based reading program

I am the “queen” of economy, in the classroom at least. So, I have taken it upon myself to learn all I can. I know how to use multi-sensory techniques. I have purchased and read “Seeing Stars” and “Visualizing and Verbalizing” from Lindamood-Bell. I have Project Read, which is the most cost effective program based upon O-G methods. It can be bought for a few $$$, so to speak. The teacher’s manual offers the scope and sequence and skills. The Bonnie Klein readers are very inexpensive and offer decodable text to read with each lesson. You simply duplicate copies for the student and can send them home. The stories are as boring as any of the programs offer, I mean how fascinating can reading like “Can Dan fan the pan?” be?

I have made my own letter tiles so I can engage students in word building exercises and so forth. I have also adapted an old program called “Signs for Sounds” to the Project Read sequence, at least for the first “year” of so worth of lessons. So, I can provide students with a variety of ways to practice what they are learning. I can build in some of the visualization activities from “Seeing Stars.” None of this is hard and it is certainly not expensive, you just need the time with each student to do the job.

Many folks like the Phonographix materials and they, too, are very cost effective. Frankly, I don’t find that it is enough practice for a truly dyslexic child, though the methodology is appropriate.

I like Great Leaps and use these materials, also cost effective. I have supplemented and added probes of my own to the Great Leaps notebook where I wanted more for my students who need substeps between the steps, or just more practice.

I think you can do the job with an initial investment of $200, if you are willing to use some homemade items, too. And I think you can do it well!

Later you can look for and add a good written language component. I am convinced we must teach the reading first. These kiddoes can practice some sentence writing skills, capitals, periods, later expanding, but they need to see and read appropriate written language models to know where they are headed, to know what their end result should be approximating, so they need to learn to read first.

Good luck.

I would say that training would be very essential to you if you want to be a successful tutor. At least, the reading research says it is important!

I think you would be safe in choosing any one of several research-based programs. Personally, I like Reading Reflex/Phono-Graphix as it is a faster remediater than OG, but it only covers the decoding/spelling portion and then you have to go on into fluency and comprehension with other materials. I use Great Leaps and will be using Lindamood-Bell Visualizing and Verbalizing.

Next week, I will be training in Language! by Sopris West (http://www.language-usa.net/) , which is an OG based program but is a complete, integrated language arts program and includes all the areas already mentioned plus writing and vocabulary. I would use it in addition to Phono-Graphix if needed.

Another option would be to take all the Lindamood-Bell training. I agree that all kids do not need all of LiPS, but Seeing Stars covers phonemic awareness as well and some kids could start there. V/V is about the best comprehension program, so I’d take that no matter what other primary program you choose.

Even if you go with materials like Project Read like Anitya suggested, I would still think you should consider going through OG training to really feel confident in using it. Barton is expensive because the training is on videotape. I personally prefer live training, but videos would be better than no training.

I believe that the initial cost is high, but tutoring a child without effective methods is wasting everyone’s time. I should know, because I know about a thousand times more about reading than I did 5-10 years ago!

Janis

Anitya, you sound like a woman after my own heart. :-) Yes I would like to be economical. Just noticed etacuisinaire.com has a very neat reading section. Not the reading per se, but sets of tiles (different color for vowels) 270 or so for $10 including the magnetic board, now all you need is some blank ones and presto bingo you have Barton. :-) Ok I’ll admit to being flip.

Your ideas are interesting, as I don’t think that one system will work with all kids. I’m sure Phonographix is just fine for some kids. Even the Open court program which a fellow staff member swears by— don’t much care for it. But I’m sure it works with some kids.

Janis, though the research says that the training is important, I’d agree. But I don’t exactly have zero sum knowledge like you would be comparing with the more typical special education teacher. (They do not usually teach this in special ed classes in college, I’ll agree. But I did work with OG and under supervision as well. I think the average attitude on OG in the public schools is “it is old”. :-) And here I am not being flip, sorry to say.)

As for written language, it would be interesting to compare notes. As I have sort of my own sequential system. I’d really like to talk with you, Anitya. Is this possible? Can we give our email address in code (ie like this: user AT provider DOT com).

—des

LiPS is not overkill at all if you have truly dyslexic kids! I have seen impressive results in 3 months time doing 30 minutes a day. I work in a school setting, so I don’t have time to do intensive Lindamood Bell programs.

I can only speak from experience as a parent, but my daughter received a combination of LIPS, V/V, and Great Leaps for 2 years. She still struggles somewhat with MS words and we just found an OG tutor that we are using for the Summer.

I’m not sure LIPS is overkill. It did wonders for my dyslexic daughter and the OG was truly pleased with the broad based knowledge my daughter had when she did her first test to she where she was at.

I’ll never forget the day she read “F-or-d” off the back of a pickup truck after only a few weeks of LMB.

I agree that we don’t have to agree. However, I just have to add, if I had 30 minutes per day, 1:1, to work on phonology skills and application with a child in my program we would see impressive results. I don’t do anything particularly spectacular, just follow the O-G scope and sequence and have the child work with short words and syllables, hearing sounds, segmenting sounds, building the syllables and words, reading them back and blending, swapping “sounds” to make new words, writing words and syllables from dictation, reading these words in simple stories………..after 3 months most children would make progress and it would be pretty notable!

I think some portions of the LiPs program are really not entirely necessary to teach dyslexics to read, I can understand these portions as they came from a speech therapy perspective.

But, I am nonetheless glad the program helps students, whether I think some pieces could be abbreviated and could save some $$$$.

Anitya wrote:

OK, Miss Argumentative :-)
As long as things don’t devolve into nastiness or flaming, I think arguments
are often helpful. (If confusing perhaps).

> I agree that we don’t have to agree. However, I just have to
> add, if I had 30 minutes per day, 1:1, to work on phonology
> skills and application with a child in my program we would see

I agree that one can (make pretty decent progress). Most kids are really not
hard core dyslexics anyway. In fact the vast majority are going to improve
with some sort of structured practice. I think that’s why Phono-Graphix works. Heck it’s probably why this Open Court thing works for some kids. (I am seeing it not work so well with others. And I am seeing why. )

> I think some portions of the LiPs program are really not
> entirely necessary to teach dyslexics to read, I can understand

Well and then you get the hard core kids. They have had just about every single approach known to human kind thrown at them. It’s where the really structured approaches work , ie LiPs.

Most of the kids, even in special ed. get no even remotely structured reading practice. Sorry to say. I think the basic technique is “louder and slower”. (I know there are some schools that have not taken this approach, but I am talking not only as a teacher but as an advocate as well.) So you take these kids out and do anything remotely structured iwth them and it is going to work for maybe 70-80% of the kids.

So I actually dont’ think anyone disagrees. BUT if you have one of those 20-30% kids, you aren’t going to want that kid just getting more of what they have had before. I think then you are going to want to find someone certified or get
yourself certified in LiPs or some OG approach. I think my decision is more or less what kind of practice I want to have. And it might be that initially I would turn away kids who have had just about everythign thrown at them— refer them to a couple webpages, etc.

Decisions decisions.

—des

Hi Everyone,
I have taught literally 100s of kids how to read using only PG and read naturally for fluidity. I have had kids whom LMB had told the parents that they would need 200-300 of hours of LIPS and Seeing Stars to read at grade level and I have been able to reach grade level reading in under 10 hours of PG. I have taught kids of all ages that had no idea of any sound/symbol relationship, no ability to segment and blend, segmenting and blending in about 12 hours. I don’t use any other decoding method because if need be, we stay at a level until they almost have it and then we move on, same exercises different level. The only student that I couldn’t teach was a middle school student that wouldn’t buy into the program, I can’t make him. I also have taught those students who have severe speech problems. I know that ‘they’ say that you can’t use the same program for all children but I think that PG is a program that will teach any child to read. Let me qualify that, if a student has the need for vision therapy, there isn’t a program that will really teach them how to read untill he has the therapy. Shay

Des:

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Actually, for students who have a great deal of difficulty with blending, I start out with LiPS and go from the first step—learning where the sounds are felt and what parts of the mouth are working to produce these sounds and end where the students can use colored blocks to represent the sounds in simple to complex syllables, and make additions, deletions, switches and substitutions within a chain of 10 syllables, making one change for each word: (bat, mat, mats, mast, mist, must, rust, roast etc). After they can do this, I then switch to Wilson, which has more of a reading component to it. Hope this helps.

Marilyn

If a child is still struggling after effective methods are used you have to find out why they are stuggling and get them the help they need.

I am just a parent of course………………….

My friend’s son is learning how to read with Orton and I don’t understand why the tutor is saying it will take 3 years. This is a child with a gifted IQ who is in kindergarten.

It costs $15,000 a year. I think it would be more cost effective to just get at his underlying deficits.

I just say pay Anitya, Victoria, Janis or Shay the $45,000 and then let them keep the change if they can do it quicker.

My OG tutor (in Florida) only charges $28/hr (I was thrilled). The thing I’ve noticed that I really like is the connection they make between the reading and the spelling. I’m hopeful it will improve her spelling abilities - though the tutor says it will probably never be a strength.

Honestly, I don’t care what program is used as long as it works. We used LMB, VV, Great Leaps and are now working our way through OG. I have a daughter who went from a non-reader to one who likes to read - though still misses, reverses blends, etc.

I can’t imagine who it would take 3 years to tutor a gifted/LDer in OG. Jami only received the above combination 2x/wkly for 2 years and it did wonders. Never had a neurocognitive evaluation, and the evaluator “doesn’t like the word dyslexia, because it doesn’t specifically pinpoint what needs to be addressed”, but she has ALL the symptoms. I think it also depends on the personality/motivation of the student.

Basically, I think people are going to “beat the drum” of the program that worked for their child. That’s why I vote LMB, VV, etc.

I have found that vision therapy has done wonders for writing and spelling. His teacher says he doesn’t have a spelling problem which is just amazing. ( I think he still does but other kids in her class just have a worse problem)

We work on visual memory and visualization but not until the focusing and ocular motor functioning is improved enough to allow for easier input.

I think the reading programs do work on these skills but it is going to be a tougher road if you don’t address these underlying input deficits first, if they exist.

I’m so glad I found this thread again! Linda, I just wanted to tell you that I could teach that child for a lot less than $45,000! Tell his mom to send him over here! I’ll give her a deal! Lol!

(Is there a Linda FF AND a Linda F???? I’ll never keep the Linda’s straight if that’s the case!)

Janis

Someone here, before the old board got lost, suggested paying me or some others the $45000 and letting us keep the change — boy, would I ever give you the reading program of the century for that amount!

There is the registered me and the unregistered me.

Linda F and Linda FF

It is a board thing..

I agree that if you are going to be teaching or tutoring LD kids, the LiPS training is really helpful. It isn’t easy to learn or do correctly, but the multi-sensory aspect is often exactly what LD kids truly need. And it is the basis of a lot of other reading programs out there — even if they don’t admit it (and many do)…

I also use LiPS in a public school setting, in groups of three or four, and I use mostly handmade materials. The only commercially produced materials I buy are the letter tiles and colored blocks, but I believe you could even make those, or buy them much cheaper elsewhere (Pro-Ed sells them, I believe, it is under $100 per child for them, and they can be reused again and again). I’ve also made/adapted/borrowed many game formats that I use for extra practice and reinforcement, and have a set of blackline masters I have created and borrowed from multiple sources for the same reason.

I usually get great results — between 1.5 and 2 years progress in nine months is average, resulting in good percentile and standard score gains for my students. This is pretty close to what can be gotten with one-on-one tutoring, and though it isn’t exactly fast it is sure…

Anyway, the bottom line is almost any method is “affordable” if you are creative about it, so get the best training you can afford, because that is far more difficult to duplicate or replace! I even think getting multiple kinds of training is a good idea, not to mix and match methods so much (which no one really wants you to do!) but to broaden your background and give you a variety of techniques to use. LiPS is certainly a very good place to start, as it is a well-designed program that really addresses the auditory weakness research says is the primary cause of most reading problems. Even if you don’t end up using it as is, you will have a really in depth understanding of what a good reading program should entail…