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overwhelmed/ deciding on math

Submitted by an LD OnLine user on

I’m a little overwhelmed right nowon the approach rto take with my ld-girl when choosing her math. I am still waiting to meet with her tutor (her neuro psych is taking her time sending her paperwork). In the meantime I have been putting together work for her on a daily basis, kinda piece-meal. My main focus has been math because I feel like the tutor is going to focus more on reading. Anyway I was looking at the5th grade math book she had been using in school and seeing what she really knew and didn’t, and then reviewing the skills that were needed to master her current work. That seemed to be working well but I am not sure that I shouldn’t simply start back at addition and subtraction and make her master those skills (she can do them but she still uses her fingers).
Problem is that she freaksout when I try to get her to do “baby math” , she has younger siblings doing this work and this is embarrasing to her.
So is it an acceptable method for me to look at the skills that she is supposed to be learning in 5th grade then taking time to work on the earlier skills that she needs to do them, and then have her apply them to the new skill?
I have been scouring this site as well as some other sources and taking the advice and experience I find from those of you with more experience to try to put the right program in place for her. An example of the above is: I noticed she had difficulty with carrying numbers in subtraction so I went back and re-taught place value using manipulatives (based on advice I found on thids site) and then showed her how it applied to the regrouping. She seemed to get it and not have a problem after that. Then we got to a part in her book that she was supposed to round to the nearest thousandhs, hundredths,… and I remebered reading that many kids don’t uderstand what there doing when rounding (or most math, they just memorize the drills) so I went back and re-taught rounding, and again broke down place value, and used ideas like the mountain , that I had founds and that seemed to help her understand and master the rounding to the nearest.. concept, I have not applied it yet to the nearest thousandths, tenths… I will next use the advice on breaking down what thousandths hundreds.. are and then once she demonstrates she totally understands I will teach her to apply it to the new concept expected for 5th grade. Does this make any sense?
I was also thinking that everyday I would give her a sheet of simple addition and math and tell her it is just was warm up work, otherwise she rebels against ‘baby-work’. I would have her do the addition and subtraction without her fingers (as I saw suggested). I have been doing something similar with multiplication so that she gets prctice on them evryday and remasters them as well as understand them. She does seem to understand them she can break down that 7x3 is 7 grps of 3, (with manipulatives and/or pictures on paper. However she cannot seem to apply it to figuring out what to apply in word problems , ie;to subtract or divide, (any advice?).
I looked at the Math U see and there is no way I would be able to get her to cooperate on starting at the level that she would be expcted to according to how they suggested you choose their level.
I guess my main concern isthat I have read several times the suggestion not to rush them and try to catch them up becausethe goal is to master the base skills , but my daughter is hyper sensitive to the perceived level of her work so I was hoping the method I am taking would build her base skills, her confidence and acheive the goals of giving her the solid foundation she needs to succeed in math.
I could go on but I have a screaming 1 year old tugging on my arm and this isr eally difficult to type with him pulling on me.
I hope this made sense, I usually wait till everyone is asleep to get on here but I have been up way to late doing this lately so I braved it and attempted witrh five whining children jealous of the computer.
Thanks in advance.

Submitted by Janis on Sun, 12/11/2005 - 3:43 AM

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I would advise you to definitely be sure her basic skills are in place, including math facts. I usually recommend the Math-U-See program for children with learning disabilities. The parent and child can watch each new introductory lesson on VHS or DVD, and then the parent can reteach if necessary. There are manipulatives to use with the lessons. There is also a placement test which will tell you where to begin. Sometimes people have to go all the way back to Alpha (which is roughly equivalent to first grade level) in order to get the child to learn the basic addition and subtraction facts. Plus it just helps to go through the concepts the way Math-U-See teaches them. Since there are no numeric grade levels on the books, it won’t be a stigma for your child. She may know the work is lower level, but she will not know the grade level from the title of the books. You may be able to work through them quickly just to be sure you have the lower level skills before you move on.

http://www.mathusee.com/

Janis

Submitted by bintgh on Sun, 12/11/2005 - 4:28 AM

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yeah that’swhat I was thinking. Andafter all the reading I’ve been doing I thought I would use the Math U See prgrm. But tonight when I tried togive her the placement test for the Alphe lvl, she saw the work and had a huge meltdown. She is so fragile right now and whenI give her this work she just thinks I am saying she is stupid. Sometimes I am patient with her,but tonight I really blew it. After trying to cajole her into just doing thetest and not worry about the level and her responding negatively I became pushy and demanded she do the test. Dumb move as she never does anything when I ‘demand’. I don’t know how to convince her to start from Alpha, and I am sure this is where she needs to start if we use this program, because she still uses her fingers to add.
On topof it I gave it to her when her siblings were around, and when her 6 yr old brthr saw the work (because she was fussing so much), he declared howeasy the problems were and mentally calculated the one she was using her fingers to calculate. Needless to say that didn’t help.
Maybe if I try again when all her siblings are away?
What do I do if I can’t convince her to start at thislevel, if she decides no it will be impossible to try and get her to do anything by force.

Submitted by victoria on Sun, 12/11/2005 - 5:48 PM

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I think you have worked out a pretty good system.

I do something like this with many of my students; I put them in two books, or two separate chapters of the same book, and we do half an hour of one and half an hour of the other. That gives them the skills development half the time and some challenge and forward progress the other half. It is slow but sure.

I also use some excellent old textbooks that are clearly labelled Grade 3, 4, 5, etc.; but the first two (long) chapters in each book are review of previous concepts, and regular review is included in every section. The material is presented at age-appropriate level but is a strong detailed review. These are the books I learned out of myself so I know they work!
You can get books like this on Amazon.com auctions and z-shops. I have the series “Arithmetic We Need”, which I recommend most highly; have never seen a better-organized math program, with every concept presented multiple ways, with a stress on concrete models and on problem-solving. Exciting it isn’t, at least not on the surface, but the real excitement is in mastering something. There are other good 1950’s series out there as well. (Just multiply all money problems by ten for today’s prices.)

I have raised a stubborn child too, and no, save world war 3 for life-threatening issues. Whne she calms down, if she compares herself to the younger sibling again, say “Fine. I know you’re capable. Let’s stop this silly finger game and learn how to do math the fast way here and now.”

Submitted by Janis on Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:23 PM

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In addition to Victoria’s comments, I would add that you must gain control if homeschooling is to work. You probably will have to implement some kind of behavior plan which incorporates a daily chart with points and rewards for getting a certain number of points. You could even give her the Alpha and a 5th grade math lesson, and give her points based on the percentage of problems correct. I am thinking that if she doesn’t have the skills to do the 5th grade math, then the lack of points being awarded might quickly make her decide to concentrate on the basic skills.

I would certainly explain to her that math builds on previous skills, and unless she makes her basic skills strong, she will always have problems in math. I’d give her the analogy that sometimes you have to give her shots which are painful at the time, but they protect her from a more serious illness (or medicine to cure an illness). It is our job to see that our kids get what they need, even when they don’t like it. There is nothing wrong with giving some incentives for cooperation and performance.

Janis

Submitted by Janis on Sun, 12/11/2005 - 8:26 PM

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Also, yes, do this when the siblings are not around. And, you probably need some conditions placed on the 6 year old who wants to show his superior math ability to his sister. He may need a chart, too!

Janis

Submitted by Sue on Mon, 12/12/2005 - 4:22 AM

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Just to chime in and agree… IMO the most important thing to do is to start out simple so she gets some **success.** Keep that six year old far away, and use her learning strengths to figure out the math. Is she better with words? Marilyn Burns has some excellent materials, though they are not for LD students and therefore sometimes she’s got lots of words in her activities, adn I have to modify them a little. Another neat book is Peggy Kay’s book on math games, which also includes information on how kids learn and build on the basic abstract ideas of math, and what different kinds of mistakes mean.

Submitted by Ld in NC on Thu, 12/15/2005 - 3:42 AM

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I have a son who had a LD in math. Here are some recommendations for math: Key to fractions/decimals/etc by the company named Key Curriculum Press. They are able to present math to older students without making the student feel like they are starting all over again.
You should start with books 1 and 2 for each concept.

Another math program that works can be found at http://www.aaamath.com/

The cd is about $15.00 but you can do the lessons online for free. The software tracks your progress. If the student misses too many, the software starts asking easier questions. It explains the math concept and then provides drills. For our other son with a reading LD, we read the math lessons to him, but he does the drills by himself. We have 5 kids, so this allows us to work with the other children.

Ld in NC

Submitted by Janis on Sat, 12/17/2005 - 3:02 PM

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I like the AAA Math site! Thanks for posting it! I’d still feel that a program like Math-U-See would be necessary for teaching the concepts, but I love the software for practice. The new Math Blaster: Master the Basics for ages 6-12 has had some good reviews, too.

http://www.mathblaster.com/

Janis

Submitted by bintgh on Sat, 12/17/2005 - 9:33 PM

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I really like the AAAmath site and so does my daughter, she feels encouraged using it, and she loves ,loves, loves, anything on the computer so that initself is a major motivator for her. I have been using that, some sites thatI found mentioned in the math section on this site and a combination of reviewing the basic addition subtraction and multiplications everyday. I told her that the +,_, x &% are just our warm-ups before we start her math every day, I write out a page of basics for each and she has to do those, then we go to the site and she works on the place value (because it says gr. 5 she feels better), I also have been using manipulatives asking her to madel that she understands the concepts. So far so good. THe place values are really quite a difficult coceot for her after 1000. I have put a chart up for her on the wall so that she can use it to help her as she figure out values. I do plan on getting the MathUSEE, starting with Alpha and using this inconjuntion with the sites, I think this will make it ia little less labourious for me. I even use my pre-Algebra book I used for developmental math in college (math was not my favorite subject growing up), it covers the same stuff they cover in 5th grade math. So Iam using a mish mash of resources at the moment, and she is responding fairly well.

Submitted by Sue on Mon, 12/19/2005 - 5:46 PM

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Another really neat warm-up that I learned from Joyce STeeves at a conference is to give a number as the “numebr of the day.” Then you have a few minutes (whether it’s a timed thing or not would depend on whether that’s helpful) to make up all the equations you can that that’s the answer to.
Points: 1 for +, 2 for -, 3 for X and 4 for division.
Let her start simple… and if she stays simple, show her some patterns… spend some time exploring.
This is the kind of thing that changes a kiddo from one who starts seeing numbers as kinda fun…

Submitted by jerirat on Wed, 01/11/2006 - 11:10 PM

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Sorry I’m late to this topic.

I started hsing my severe LD son this year, he would’ve been in 6th grade. I chose to use the program at [url]http://www.alabacus.com/[/url] and we’ve had much success with it. DS has a prodigous memory and was able to memorize his way through school until 5th grade. He wasn’t able to apply all the stuff he memorized.

Using RightStart Mathematics I’ve been able to work on the concepts behind the math. He’s a visual guy and this program has been great. The big thing that appealed to me is that it doesn’t use manipulatives very much. Instead an abacus is used. It’s much more logical and contained. DS was able for the first time really understand addition and subtraction and see patterns. There is a big emphasis on visualizing the math, something my DS had never learned.

Right now we’re working on fractions and it’s tough going but he’s starting to understand.

My background is engineering and I also minored in math. The program is logical and can be tailored for any age and ability. The books are labeled A, B, C, D, etc…. I started him in a transition book which was recommended since he wasn’t starting at the beginning. Right now we’re working out of Book D. It may take a couple of years to get through the book but I figure I’ll take whatever time he needs to learn.

I have no connection with the RightStart people, just a very satisfied customer.

Submitted by karen35 on Fri, 04/28/2006 - 9:05 PM

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Another idea is you could use the triangle flash cards that you can find at Donna Young’s site to practice and she also has some math drill pages also at: www.donnayoung.org in the math section printables. They are free.

The series I use with my dyslexic son is Developmental Mathematics. It is a somewhat visual program, but with no kinesthetic component like Math-U-See, and designed for the independent learner, which is great for a visual, independent learner like my son and it is pretty inexpensive for workbooks and answer guides. They have placement tests at: http://www.mathplace.com/mpass/download.asp They sell it at Rainbow Resource and CBD and probably other places too, it is a secular program…

Simultaneously you also could just keep continuing on with her lessons and print out addition and multiplication charts, also at www.donnayoung.org, and let her use those for her work. She will probably pick up her math facts while using the charts with a lot less stress while using the charts and still be able to get her math work done. My learning/teaching philosophy is that learning should be as fun and stress free as possible so that children will hopefully learn to enjoy it for the rest of their lives!

Karen

Submitted by Joan on Fri, 04/28/2006 - 10:57 PM

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I also am using Rightstart with my son. He is a slow learner and has many sensory issues - asd. We have finished level A and are now 1/4 through Level B. He can add and even divide - but he doesn’t know what division is yet. It is easy to understand the concept of 100 using an abacus. My son has many auditory issues and with Rightstart we can just ignore those issues and teach him visually.
You can buy Righstart materials at Raindbow Resources as well.
Righstart is the same as alabacus - which someone posted earlier.
For a great description see this review:
http://www.cathyduffyreviews.com/math/right-start-math.htm

I do have an extra workbook that I designed to go along with Rightstart. It just has some more review so that I make sure a concept sticks.

Good Luck,
Joan

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