is phonographix multisensory

and it was very successful for us. However, my daughter does not have auditory processing problems. Her dyslexia was related to visual processing problems and “severely disordered phonological awareness” as diagnosed by the SLP (so, I suppose, in a sense it was double-deficit).

Actually, PG is multisensory to a degree. It incorporates speaking a sound with writing a sound in its “mapping” activities, which engages kinesthetic, auditory and visual systems simultaneously. It just does not include activities such as air writing or finger spelling.

If I were you, I would definitely try PG. It can be quite amazingly effective in terms of teaching decoding skills.

Does your son have problems with visual processing? PG would not have been enough for my daughter, because even after she could decode, she could not process the visual inputs of text efficiently enough to read fluently. She needed vision therapy and cognitive training to develop her visual processing skills, in addition to PG — which provided her with the decoding skills she needed.

Mary

Most of my son’s problems are the visual. We did three months of vision therapy and he no longer writes his letters backwards. He seems to be able to read at a steady rate. He just hates reading. He needs alot of encouragement to just finish a short book. Writing is even worse. He hates to write anything. He has beautiful cursive handwriting and is a very good artist — so he doesn’t seem to need occupational therapy.

I was wondering how your daughter did with the intensive PG. Was she able to go for 3 hours a day?

Also, have you found a school setting that’s working for your daughter? I’ve kept my son in public school and it’s not working. Too many stomach aches. Just wondering if you’ve found anything that works.

You might be best off doing some cognitive training before, or concurrently with, PG. My daughter needed cognitive training after vision therapy in order to develop visual processing skills. We did PACE (http://www.learninginfo.com), which is excellent but expensive. A good home-based alternative is Audiblox (http://www.audiblox2000.com) which has a good visual component.

The total teaching time each day for the PG intensive was about 2-1/2 hours, with 1/2 hour allotted to break. My dd was able to do it, although she complained. The teacher was very good at getting around dd’s “poor attitude” at the beginning. She said dd’s attitude improved considerably after she made some progress. The intensive was extremely helpful in developing dd’s decoding and word analysis skills. Her scores on the Woodcock-Johnson went from something like 3rd grade to 11th grade on word analysis! It is a year later now and dd can read anything she wants to. We are still working on getting her to *want* to read, and I would definitely not describe her as an avid reader. We compensate for this by reading a lot of books out loud to her, which she thoroughly enjoys (especially the cuddling).

My dd’s OT eval had some unusual results, but nothing that qualified her for services or explained her difficulty with writing. Certain types of dysgraphia can exist even with no OT problems. Dd is currently learning keyboarding, as there is no way she could keep up with writing needs if she has to do it by hand. She is also a good artist and *loves* her weekly art class at an art academy.

We took dd out of private school and homeschooled all of 3rd grade in order to do the vision therapy, PACE, PG, etc. Last year, for 4th grade, I came across a small, public charter school nearby that was just starting up. The principal has 6 children, the oldest of whom is LD, so she was very flexible with us. We ended up putting dd in school for just 3 hours a day (including lunch/recess) and homeschooling the rest of the time. We are doing the same thing this year. However, the school has long waiting lists now and I don’t think the principal is making this kind of arrangement with new families.

We actually find homeschooling to be much easier for all of the academics. Dd learns very little in traditional classrooms, and they are very boring to her. However, dd likes socializing with the same people every day, and we both benefit from being away from each other for a few hours every day. Although we were able to arrange lots of socializing opportunities when we homeschooled, it required a lot of driving and waiting on my part, lots of phone calls, and dd always seemed to want more. Although our current arrangement suits dd very well, sometimes I think school is more trouble than it’s worth to me!

Incidentally, the school did individual reading assessments on all of the children at the beginning of the year, and my dd was placed in the small “advanced” reading class. According to the reading assessment, she is reading on an ending 6th grade level (she’s in 5th grade this year). This is a child who was still reading on a preschool level at age 8-1/2!

Mary

My son also went to a PG intensive the summer. He was essentially a nonreader before he went and did come back reading. He is now in third grade and fits easily into the lowest reading group according to his teaching, although he is in a pullout resource program. He can read third grade material but not easily.

My son also has multiple deficits. He has CAPD, visual processing issues, and word retreival. We have had some success with PG but not as much as Mary but I think that is because my son’s problems are more complex.

We have also done vision therapy, Fast forward, PACE, and have been doing Neuronet therapy since January. Everything has helped but nothing has completely resolved his problems.

Beth

Sorry I cannot help you there but what kind of vision therapy did your son go through? Thanks

Could you please explain more about visual processing, what it is and how one can get help for it? I was reading your notes and they sounded like my daughter. My third grader has had lots of phonics but doesn;t read fluent and takes a lot of time to apply her phonics to words with more than two syllables ie: concentration. Thanks

Has anyone tried or know of anyone who has tried the LINDAMOOD BELL programs? They are suppose to be instensive, 4 hours per day for 4-8 weeks, very costly, multisensory, etc. Anyone know anything?

The best thing to do is to get a thorough developmental vision evaluation. This checks about 20 visual function skills not included in a regular eye exam. Vision therapy is usually very effective at resolving any visual efficiency problems — things like binocularity, tracking, focusing speed, field-of-vision. Once these are determined to be at age level, then cognitive training is a very efficient way of developing visual processing skills — things like visual sequencing, visual short-term memory, pattern recognition, etc.

Cognitive skills build on a sensory/motor foundation. That’s why it’s always a good idea to get a developmental vision eval first, to determine that sensory/motor development is normal. If not, you want to resolve any deficits on this level as much as possible in order to provide a good foundation for development of cognitive skills. Reading words in text requires the ability to take in and retain letters in sequence, recognize letter patterns quickly, track along a line automatically, etc.

Websites with more information about vision are http://www.visiontherapy.org, http://www.vision3d.com, and http://www.children-special-needs.org. You can locate developmental optometrists in your area at http://www.covd.org.

It’s a good idea to contact all of the developmental optometrists in your area. As with all doctors, some are better than others, and you will probably get a feel for who you would prefer.

It’s a shame, but opthalmologists have chosen to ignore the field of developmental vision and tend to know nothing about how vision problems impact learning.

Mary

maria,

i tutor many kids using PG, please keep in mind that your son lost several years of learning to read prior to his PG intensive, when other kids (who read at age 6) were going through 1st and 2nd grade, they were acquiring tons of practice and building a nice large sight word vocabulary,

give your son the time he needs, the best and only therapy I recommend at this point is time and practice. I find that parents want a quick fix and there is no such thing, if he got all the way through 2nd grade and was reading poorly, he missed much critical time,

not knowing his tests in PG, my guess is that his initial intake score on blending was low,

your son has new skills, these new skills need much repetition,

just try to imagine learning a new sport such as golf, you would not expect your son to be a perfect golfer in a matter of months, instead, you would realize how important practice is to perfecting his game,

think of his reading skills the same way, and based on your post, your son has spent a great deal of time in therapies,

spend some time now reading with him and enjoying books, visit book stores or the library, and buy him whatever book he might pick, if it is too hard, then buddy read it with him, help him to start thinking of himself as a reader,

good luck,

Have you ever had a student that couldn’t learn to read using Phonographix?

I just had my son tested. He’s had some Wilson, Fast Forward and vision therapy, so I was hoping he would test much better than he did a year ago. But, he tested 9/15 on the blending — is this a bad score for a 9 year old?

He also tested a 3/10 in auditory processing. What does this mean?

I was told that he would need 18 sessions instead of the 12.

I really want to find a program that works for him. I’ve gotten on the Read America website and read Diane McGuinesses book. It sounds like a wonderful program, but I’m still not sure if it would benefit a severe dyslexic.

I’m not sure if the LIPS program would be better at this point.

has about a 98% success rate in bringing children up to grade level or better after a one-week intensive, which is about 12 hours of tutoring. I’d say that the chances are good that your son would respond to Phono-Graphix and be reading after 18 sessions. However, there are never any guarantees. Your son could fall into that 2% category that is less responsive.

Since PG is a lot less expensive and less time-consuming than LiPS, I would do PG first and see what happens. If it doesn’t work, you can always fall back on LiPS.

Have you considered doing Audiblox before or concurrently with PG? VT and FFW address primarily sensory/motor development problems. However, whenever there are problems on this level, cognitive skills acquisition is also delayed. Audiblox (http://www.audiblox2000.com) and PACE (Processing and Cognitive Enhancement, http://www.learninginfo.com) both work on cognitive skills development. Cognitive skills include things such as visual sequencing, visual short-term memory, pattern recognition, auditory sequencing, auditory short-term memory, etc. — all very useful sub-skills for fluent reading. Improving these cognitive skills would probably help the learning process for reading.

Mary

ask on the ReadNOW list at http://www.groups.yahoo.com. There are a lot of experienced PG tutors on that list, and they may be able to tell you how PG worked for their students who started with similar test scores.

Mary

Thank you for that suggestion on websites. It’s so hard to decide which program at this point — he really needs to be set up for success after all of the anxiety and stomach aches he’s been through!

I live near the Orlando clinic so they told me I would not be able to do the intensive, but once a week for an hour with work at home everyday. I think it may work. He’s never had one on one tutoring and I like the fact that the tutors will be experienced in working with dyslexic children.

I’m going to look into the PACE program. It’s about $4,000 - $5000. Is this a reasonable rate? It seems awfully expensive to me.

The vision therapist that we went to did some of the PACE — we memorized all of the presidents with the pictures. This was actually easy for my son. He was better at it than I was. We also did alot of neurological exercises to learn left and right. And this helped. He now seems to be able to keep a beat and knows his lefts and rights automatically.

The thing that helped the most was the Wilson tutoring. Being able to read, even if it is at a first grade level, really helped his self esteem.

One thing we really have to work on — my son is 9-1/2 and can not tie his shoes. I know this causes embarrassment for him. I heard this was common with dyslexics. Did you have experience with this?

I’ve never heard of Audiblox, but I’ll look into it. Was it successful for your child?

and do PG then. When my dd was at the Orlando clinic, Linda Woodruff was her tutor. She is *excellent*, although I’m sure the others are good too.

We did PACE and it was extraordinarily helpful. PG taught my dd decoding skills. However, PACE taught her how to process visual information sequentially with accuracy and speed, which was necessary for dd to be able to apply her decoding knowledge to text. PG taught her to read, but PACE gave her the visual processing skills necessary to be able to read fluently.

Where we are, in the Midwest, a 12-week PACE program costs about $2,500. It goes up to $4,000 only if you add on their MTC (Master the Code) program. MTC was not available when we did PACE. Although MTC has its good points, I still prefer PG for beginning readers. Did the price you were quoted include MTC? If so, I would find out what the price is for PACE alone. Also, be aware that PACE prices are set by individual providers. You may be able to shop around and find someone who will provide the program for less. In our area, several mothers took the training to provide for their own children and now take a few outside clients for extra income. If you email the website, they will send out your request to all providers in your area. It is then up to the providers to contact you.

My dd *still* does not tie her shoelaces correctly (age 11) but, in her case, she just doesn’t care! However, there is a technique used by occupational therapists that you might find useful. It’s called “reverse enchaining”. (I would probably stretch some denim on a frame and insert a dozen shoelaces to work on at a time.) Basically, you start by tying the shoelaces except for the very last step. You have the child do that last step over and over until he has it down cold. Then you tie the shoelaces except for the last two steps, teach him the second-to-the-last step, and have him finish tying the shoelaces using these two steps. By the time you get to the first step in tying shoelaces, he has practiced the remaining steps many times. This technique is used by musicians too for memorizing music — learning the last two measures first and working up to the beginning of the piece.

Let me know if I can provide any more information. I liked PACE and PG so much I ended up getting certified in both. We didn’t do Audiblox, but I got the package in order to be able to compare it to PACE. It’s not as comprehensive and intensive, but it has a good visual component, and it’s *very* inexpensive compared to PACE — about $80 for the book, video, and starter kit of manipulatives.

Mary

Thanks for the information. I was just on the PACE website and I’m going to look into it.

I agree - Linda is wonderful. She was so kind and patient with my son.

I have another question for you. I’m having a tough time teaching my son his multiplication facts. He understands the concept of multiplication but he seems to have absolutely no desire to memorize them. I think this may be related to the visual perception — he hates sheetwork and writing. Did you have any problems with your daughter in this area?

and addition facts, for that matter. It seems to be a common problem with dyslexics, although not all dyslexics have it. PACE helped quite a bit.

What I would really recommend for multiplication facts, though, (and I wish we had done this — might still do it even though we seem past the need) is Multiplication Facts the Fun Way at http://www.citycreek.com. This is a wonderfully easy way to learn the facts via silly stories and visualization. The silly stories really give kids a “peg” to hang the abstract facts on, and most kids remember stories very well. Eventually the kids develop mental shortcuts and can skip the stories to remember the facts. Once the facts are learned, you can use Quarter Mile Math software (http://www.thequartermile.com) to work on speed. MFFY works really fast for almost all kids, including dyslexics, and the tutoring kit (book, workbook and flash cards) is only about $44.

We skipped MFFY and just went to QMM after PACE. We did just 10 minutes a day with me keyboarding, to pack in as many problems as possible into the 10 minutes. Dd was able to master multiplication facts very well this way — had them all down cold after about 4 months of this. However, what I am finding is that, when she is confronted with a real math problem (rather than drill), she still falls back on skip-counting for multiplication. In other words, she doesn’t automatically transfer her facility for multiplication facts to real problems. Her math facts are somewhat dependent on context. When we have some spare time, I think I am going to pull out MFFY and go over the stories with her — have some fun, act them out, etc. I think this might provide her with a bridge between the math facts and actually applying them. For where she is, we don’t need the workbook or flashcards. I think they would be helpful for someone just starting out with the multiplication facts, though.

Mary

There is a secondary PACE training center in Sarasota (company base is in Colorado Springs, CO). Since you are already in Florida, you might want to consider getting trained yourself. The two other mothers I know who have done the training have taken outside clients and probably made up all of their initial investment by now. I could have, with the referrals I have received, but just haven’t had the time (or energy, I’m older). It’s easier having your own child go through another provider, but it’s certainly possible to do it yourself if that option would be a better one for you. The only requirement, I think, is that you have a college degree.

Mary

Thanks so much for the suggestions in math. The silly stories sound like they would work for him.

The only way I can get him to write stories is by using a book that has silly story starters. He enjoys it.

Right now I’m using Saxon math. I like the repetition, but he seems bored with it.

I’m going to look into the other websites you suggested.