placement as LD reading comprehension

Around here the student needs to meet discrepancy in just reading comprehension. In other words, he can be a good “word caller” who has poor comprehension. I would also want receptive language checked.

Hey Janis,

You can use one subtest, however, the reliability is so much lower. Statistically, then, the dicrepancy doesn’t exist.

Ex: With one subtest, you might be 90% confident that the SS is between 80-92. Whereas, using two subtests, you might be 90% confident that the SS is between 82-90.

If the confidence band of your IQ measure and the confidence band of your achievement are overlapping, you cannot statistically imply any difference at all.

If you have to stand up in a court of law, best have that cluster. It’s more reliable and can more easily be defended. Most districts want it for this reason.

If the cluster does not yield the discrepancy, could another test of passage comprehension be given to help substantiate the placement?

Janis

What, exactly, do you observe?

Susan, I’ll email you. :-)

However, since the cluster includes word identification, passage comprehension and fluency, it can be significantly higher than the comprehension scores, if the issue is primarily comprehension. I think when we speak of qualifying a child who needs help, we usually will take a single subtest, if the team believes the child is qualified for services and we are needing or wanting a numerical discrepancy somewhere to support this. Finally, there will be other measures that will generally point to comprehension issues, not merely this single subtest. However, we have qualified youngsters based on a single subtest.

Me thinks this just makes good sense. Me also thinks that when we use test data to EXCLUDE a child from placement, we really had better be on much more solid ground so this does not come back and bite us.

Few parents who want the extra help for their children are going to sue us for making a placement as LD in reading comprehension.

In this case, the child has the discrepancy only in passage comp and this is supported by classroom performance. She recently made a 70% on a reading comp test in the regular classroom which comes from the reading curriculum. She does not have the 15 point discrepancy in the other subtests, therefore, the cluster score won’t work. Our state testing is so dependent on good reading comp skills. It will kill a child with deficits in this area. And this child is repeating first grade and still has this discrepancy. Actally, there is no gain in reading scores from testing at the end of last year except word attack scores are good.

Janis

One more question to Anitya and Susan.

With a young child, do you know of any good reading comp remediation sources other than V/V or Specific Skills Series (obviously there are many other books with reading passages and questions grouped by skills like drawing conclusions, making inferences, etc.. I am looking more for strategies to remediate).

I have to be sure there is something to gain by placing this child.

Thanks,
Janis

Hi Anitya,

I believe that my WJ-III Technical Manual indicates that one may cluster basic reading skills (Word ID/Word Attack) separately, and one may cluster Passage Comp and Reading Vocabulary. This gives a clearer picture of the two reading domains within the category of LD under federal law.

Finally, it isn’t just today litigation for which districts must be concerned. Inaccurate identification, diagnosis, placement, and services could result in the child suing the district as an adult. Finally, my district wishes us to follow appropriate proceedure so that if anyone “changes their feelings” (pleased versus not-so-very-pleased), we’ve done what is correct.

Any team, including the parents as a member, can override the testing and decide something different. Our state requires that we have some other evidence for such a decision.

Enjoying a snow/cold day today!

Susan

This is a very nice program used Gr 3-9 in our school district for comprehension. I use it with at-risk and sped high school students but have to watch my stories to be sure they aren’t too juvenile.

I don’t know if this program will fit the student to whom you refer.

S

I’m home for a snow day today, too, Susan! Believe me, when NC sees 8-9 inches, we’ll be home for a few days!

Janis

I emailed you last night about this student. Did you get it?

janis

Not sure why I didn’t answer. Was tired last night and then forgot this a.m.

I’m thinking that you might use the Gates-MacGinitie…or why not give a Woodcock Reading Mastery Test? There is also, I believe, two forms to the WJ-III.

We don’t have much snow, just bitter a bitter cold blast from the north.

Well, you might be amused that they have issued a cold advisory here. Going down near freezing inland. Public school is off tomorrow and there is all worry about kids with the wind chill ect. Talk at my daughter’s school of canceling field trip to the Everglades because highs are only going to be in the 50s. My daughter, who spent most of her life in Buffalo, is walking around calling everyone Florida wimps!!

Beth

Now that is pretty funny, Beth!

Janis

My kids and I had this same discussion today. School was closed here (Il) due to windchill of -15—my kids commented if we were still in ND they would just say we are having a light wind! I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

I use the compuscore and it does not do that. I could hunt the technical manual, too and see if this is something you can do by hand. Of course, I rarely administer the reading vocabulary subtest because most of my students have the basic word reading disability. I’ll try that sometime and see if it clusters differently. Based on the nature of the W-J comprehension subtest, I am hesitant to find an LD based only upon that score. I would expect to use at least one additional standardized test (we used to like the WIAT, but the revision is administered differently and may not be as useful in all cases) and also refer to informal reading inventory scores.

“I believe that my WJ-III Technical Manual indicates that one may cluster basic reading skills (Word ID/Word Attack) separately, and one may cluster Passage Comp and Reading Vocabulary.”

I know this is true because I printed out a copy of the subtest list (one page) from the WJ web-site and it tells you all the possible combinations of subtests.

The score on RV was okay. But the child has APD in the area of integration, and that seems to carry over into all types of integration. So while she may know a single word, getting comprehension out of a whole series of sentences (paragraphs) is difficult. Memory is an issue, too. Fortunately she has had excellent phonics instruction so basic decoding is not an issue. But longer word decoding will be, I have a feeling.

The problem is, no one has the WIAT-III and I will not have the child tested again by an inexperienced tester. So I guess that leaves me with requesting an IEE. No one even has the WRMT. Good grief. No one cares about proper diagnosis. If the WJ-III doesn’t do the trick, you’re outta luck basically.

Janis

This is a norm referenced test used to determine proficiency in the areas of reading rate, reading accuracy and reading comprehension. It is given by the reg. ed. reading teachers in our area. Our state(MA) requires a SEVERE discrepancy before allowing LD IEP status. Hope this helps!

Thank you for the suggestion. I have heard of that test but for some reason schools in this area just do not have the specialty area tests. While the WJ-III is a nice test, I think it is a crime to not evaluate children with a second test if they come close to the discrepancy needed for placement. I was discussing this with one of our diagnosticians this week. She said they are having fewer children qualifying using the new WJ-III, but they are not allowed to use another test unless it would be specifically requested. For that matter, though, they simply are not buying updated versions of anything but the WJ, so that leaves us with nothing else to use, really.

Janis

This is a common test used by reading(regular ed.) teachers…can you ask around about it? It gives a much more real world look at reading.

Good idea. I’ll ask a reading teacher. Thanks!

Janis