Please give input about my son!

> Hi all, I’m new to this site, and not too great with computers to boot, but

Hi, nice site. Good to read a lot of back posts if you can find the time.
I think it would be worthwhile.

>well coordinated and has no behavior problems, has lots of friends,etc. He is 7 and going into 2nd grade this year. So far so good, here are the issues: he seems to not understand instuctions/explanations at times, totally spaces out in school when it comes time for paperwork,almost never completing it. He stares at the walls, peels the paper off crayons, and when asked doesn’t know what he’s supposed to be doing with his ><

Well it’s possible he could have subtle auditory processing problems that aren’t real detectable at this stage of the game. For example, perhaps
he has difficulty sorting out the main sound from the background. Might cause him to want to space out. Understanding directions is another clue. Might be that he isn’t really processing them. There’s lots of sounds in classrooms that normal kids just filter out and he may not be doing it.

>workpage. He also went through a several week period a couple years ago where he wouldn’t talk on the phone, saying he couldn’t understand people on the phone. That just lasted for the few weeks and he was alright with the phone again.

He may go thru periods of being better or worse at processing auditory info. Another possibility is some degree of hearing loss. I think a very good audiologist could answer these types of questions.

>I went through the ADD screnning and it just didn’t fit, especially since we don’t see the symptoms anywhere but at school (and here doing homework, but I think of that as being more a school type of issue). The >Dr. said he was ADD/ADHD because of that.

Well I wouldn’t think the H part could apply, as he doesn’t sound hyperactive. But it is possible he is just ADD. Some things fit here, not getting the directions, “spacing out”, etc.

This might not really matter at home where the no. of confusions and so on is fewer but in school it is more of an issue.

Another thing to check for might be mild seizures. A number of minor
seizures that you might not notice could create gaps and so he is missing some important info. The space outs could be minor seizures (called petit mals or absenses). He will not lose consciousness or change posture. Might watch for this at home. I would say that these would be more disruptive at school. These are not hard to treat, as far as I know. He might have more in school as it is aggravated by stress, even minor. Times to watch at home might be while he’s watching tv, after a meal, and other kind of down times. They would last a second or two to up to 30 seconds.
Teachers often say of these kids that they “daydream”.

Might look up the Epilepsy Foundation: http://www.efa.org

I doubt the pediatrician will pick this up and you will be one more nervous and overanxious mother! He’d need to see a pediatric neurologist. He might have more to say about the ADD question.

> He’s very smart, for example: he explained to a roomfull of adults at the age of 6 what it meant to have fluctuations in the electro-magnetic field. When one of them asked if he knew what a fluctuation was he came up with a very fitting example of the term.

Well bright kid!!

> Sooo, HEEELP, please! I’d really appreciate any input you folks would be willing to give. My insurance doesn’t cover and hands-on testing for specific learning problems, so I’ll have to do this on my own. Thanks so much for any input!

Might cover neurologist or audiologist though?

HTH,

—des

Sarah[/quote]

Sounds just like my kid. My child os high IQ but couldn’t do work in 2nd grade due to attention problems. I feel for you. My son is 11 and we homeschool now. He does great in everything except writing. Anything to do with writing is a headache (Spelling, get ideas on paper, using punctuation etc.). We are now going through MORE testing to see if he has a learning disability. I’m sure he has but you have to prove it in order to get accomodations if he should ever get to go back to school. You are in the beginning process that for us seems neverending. If you have a good neuropsychologist in your area I would try that. They can give him the necessary test to determine what is going on. I wouldn’t waste my time seeing all the other people until I saw neuropsychologist. Good Luck, Jan :D

My kids haven’t been through the school system at all, but I remember that they made us take hearing tests at school. He sounds like he may have auditory problems. Other than I can’t really help, but it sounds as though you ought to talk to his pediatrician at the very least. :) Susan

A couple of thoughts. ADD inattentive type is most noticeable when doing a task like schoolwork. But auditory processing problems have some symptoms like that, too. I can’t tell from your post whether you are homeschooling now, but if he has those symptoms in a quiet environment and just loses attention during schoolwork, then he may either be very bored with the work or ADD inattentive.

If he has no academic problems, I’m not sure I’d go for a neuropsych evaluation, but do consider talking with his pediatrician again and look at LD Indepth on this site and under “processing” you will find informaiton about auditory processing disorder.

Janis

Another thing— Janis mentioned boredom. If he is so bright he is teaching adults about electromagnetism, he might really be just bored period. You might read some forums (look over at Yahoo) on giftedness. Of course, there are ld gifted kids too, so there can very well be a combo.

—des

This sounds a *lot* like both my daughter and myself. I recognize many of the things you write in both of us. I looks quite a bit like my brother and nephew, too, in many ways.

None of us was ever officially diagnosed with anything.

My daughter and I managed to be eccentric geniuses . My brother and nephew were underachievers. Same patterns, two of us managing to stay on top of schoolwork enough to freak out the teachers, the other two not caring.

Nowadays my daughter and I would definitely be diagnosed as dysgraphic. We both read at preschool age and couldn’t write a legible sentence until age 7 or 8. We did both learn to write well and even do calligraphy however — just take the time and teach it right.

Reading over many sites, I found two that definitely describe us and therefore possibly your son. BUT take warning — many of these authors are profoundly negative and depressing, so take everything they say with a large grain of salt. Many of us manage to be quite happy and successful in our own way, even if we are a bit eccentric in the view of the conformists in the world.

(1) Giftedness, boredom, and frustration, DEFINITELY have a lot to do with this. Your son is doing adult-level conceptual thinking. Imagine yourself stuck in a Grade 2 class all day! You would be climbing the walls, right? In self-defense you would start using your imagination, creating stories and images, etc. You would miss many of the boring and horribly repetitive things going on around you.
The solution for this is, as much as possible, to get him into more mentally stimulating activities. He can keep a library book in his desk and really read, for example. I was less than successful in getting stimulation for my daughter in her early grades when she had rigid teachers, but later it got better.
On the other hand, physically he still needs to learn to write, so he needs to pay attention there. If you can get teachers who are able to listen, try to get them to deliberately draw him in for the subjects he does need and encourage him to go ahead in the areas where he can work alone.

(2) The mental absence could definitely be a form of ADD. There is a very good author — I think the name is Hallowell (sorry, going by memory) from Florida who has written several excellent articles. I recognize myself and family in over 90% of his checklists. He also is ADD and has an excellent article on his own experiences living with it. Try to find his articles and read them. His how-to-live-with-ADD summary is excellent advice.

(3) I recognize myself and my daughter over 90% in the checklists for NLD (non-verbal learning disability). BUT two very strong warnings: (A)although we fit the profile to a T, we are quite good at math. She got as far as Calculus 2 in high school. I got sidetracked and had to go back to school as an adult, but I have an Honours BA in math and am partway towards a PhD. So all the dire predictions about never being able to do even basic math are not dependable. (In fact, higher math, being conceptual, is fine for some forms of NLD; the problem is bad, overly-mechanical teaching of basic arithmentic). (B) The best-know author of articles on NLD, source for much of the info on the websites, is horribly pessimistic. He harps on the fact that some people with this pattern become depressed. Luckily other people have spoken up and said this is not predestined. Don’t let yourself be dismayed.
My daughter and I have the problems with social skills especially in larger groups, the difficulty with noisy/ disorganized environments, the verbal giftedness plus visual weaknesses and oddities, the odd coordination (excellent in some ways and poor in others for example writing), the severe time and organizational difficulties — basically the whole shebang. But we are good in math and generally quite cheerful (She’s going through a bad patch right now but she’s generally a joy to have around.)

The talking on the phone issue definitely resonates here. She has *never* been able to talk on the phone. As a small child, when most kids are entranced by the friend’s voice coming from the machine, she reacted very negatively and didn’t want to talk at all. As a teenager, her phone conversations were very short, rarely over a few minutes! Her phone conversations are still mostly monosyllabic: Yes, No, yes, yes, OK, bye. I have tried to talk to her about this, and it appears that, although she is highly gifted verbally and in fact speaks several languages, she cannot actually communicate without all the nonverbal clues from a person’s physical presence. Looking at my own feelings, I also tend to find telephone conversations in some way unsatisfying; on the other hand, I deliberately use this distancing to make difficult and/or embarrassing contacts by phone rather than in person.

What to do about this? Well, keep hands-on about his learning and make sure that what he is learning is reaching his understanding and not just being faked and parroted (always a problem with bad teaching, especially of math.)
If he doesn’t learn something from the usual school drill and worksheets, find good books and/or activities that will reach his intelligence.
Help him find ways to let his skills blossom and encourage him to focus on his giftedness and not his weaknesses — yes be realistic and accept the problems (and remember you’re good at some things and other people are good at others, not to be a snob), but it’s your strengths and what you do with them that define your success in life.
Help him learn coping skills where necessary — but try as much as possible to get solid skills, like handwriting, even if it does take a little time. Learn coping skills for time, organization, listening (he can learn to check up on his own attention, ask himself if he is listening, over time).
He doesn’t need to talk on the phone much — look for a career path other than middle management.

Good luck and send a message if you want to talk more.

School can bring out a different side of a child. School as a process is a fairly unnatural one. It asks that very young children sit still for long periods at a time and that they attend and follow detailed instructions given out at the front of the room even when they might be in the back of it. Some children take to school like a duck to water but it isn’t for everybody, every child or certainly for every bright child.

Many of the common tasks of school don’t tap into a bright child’s intelligence. School tasks are often ones that emphasize a ‘follow the leader’ kind of behavior something that doesn’t always come naturally to bright children such as your son. And school can be boring.

Many people are quick to say attentional issues these days. Processing issues are also a possibility. Children with either are often better served in a smaller classroom (what child wouldn’t be?)

You posted your question on the homeschooling board. Are you thinking of home schooling? Bright children often appreciate the flexibility of home schooling and from what your son already knows, it sounds like he’s his own best teacher.

Good luck.