Reading and Memory

and I am beginning to feel like a broken record….What were the results of the CAPD testing? What was his auditory attention like? Has he ever had any continuous performance tests either visually or auditory? Being able to sustain attention is imperative for children to build auditory memory. Have you tried building his auditory memory attention and phonemic awareness through rhymes, clapping games, dictation, have you tried reading nightly with him, doing something like buddy reading or tandem reading? Does he spend a lot of time on the TV and Nintendo?

I know you have done PACE…that was a wash, you have done LMB and that isn’t working or the progress is extremely slow…and correct me if I am wrong but have you done Somonas and that didn’t work??

If he hasn’t been able to progress considering all the time and money you have spent there has to be another issue…that hasn’t been addressed. From my own ephiphany I kept digging until I found all the missing puzzle pieces that were preventing our daughter from learning and reading…..half way through our dyslexic, HI/CAPD/ADHD daughter’s intensive remediation period during the last half of 5th grade and the summer before 6th grade was when I got my head out of the sand about her ADHD-Inattentive behaviors.

People had been trying to tell me since 3rd grade that she wasn’t focusing, that she was inattentive, she would attend when it was something she was interested in and then she would blow if off if she didn’t like it…I refused to listen to them until I hit the wall and realized that I had a similar issue with focusing and auditory processing when I was studying to become an SLP.

Right after we started meds that summer she told me, “Mommy, I finally know what it feels like to be able to pay attention and focus.” and after that “ah ha” everything came together for her in the LAB class in her 6th grade year accompanied by further intensive therapy with PACE, LMB, LIPS, VV, working on the writing with the Spivey program, Seeing Stars and Somonas. Now she is mainstreamed in 7th grade pulling A’s and B’s with a C in math

He will not make progress in therapy until he can be engaged in the process and wants to do it for himself, because it appears that he is going through the motions but something isn’t clicking… meds may help him learn how to focus and through behavior modification the clinicians can lay the foundation for success instead of what I have seen these past 4 years of frustration, indecision and searching for a magic cure…. I don’t know what else is left to do except for looking at ADD/CAPD co-morbidity.

Check out Audiblox at www.audiblox2000.com

If it were my child, I would try to develop his attention level before I tried meds. Attention is a learned behavior. I would use meds as only a last resort. I’m not big on giving these kids those strong meds.

Memory problems are a well known aspect of many LD profiles. The more severe the LD, the more prominent they may be.

Frankly, if he’s having memory problems with LIPS, then he’s still going to have the same memory problems with Audiblox.

I was looking for some research based information to share with my sons teacher. She has kids in her class with memory issues, some are on meds. I’m not so sure that meds would be the answer for my son. I have seen many kids, with sever Dyslexia go through many therapy’s and still make slow progress, some in the Lab class at Stowell.. My son has made progress, he is reading much better then ever before! As I said, he’s a sever Dyslexic, which memory is greatly impeded. I have had two experts Jill Stowell, Regina Richards tell me that he will make slow progress, because of the severity of his problem.I’m happy with steady progress even though it’s slow. I realize that there is NO magic cure or pill. If there were, many of us would be looking for the line!! My question was for reading and memory research information.

Thanks to all

Audiblox improves auditory and visual memory.

One of the more enjoyable books I read this winter was “Learning and Memory, The Brain in Action” by Marilee Sprenger. She is a teacher who wrote it as part of her graduate work. It begins with an easy to follow explanation of how the brain functions and subsequent chapters discuss different forms of remembering and how to teach to maximize them in the classroom. Her text is very engaging and easy to follow- and she cites a significant amount of research. Amazon has it and it is on the recommended list for this site.

Robin

I have just read Pattim’s post and you have apparently tried a number of programs. Have you tried Phono-Graphix? It works very well for kids that have a lot of problems remembering the advanced code. If you do try this program, I would hire a trained therapist and take it slow. This is a good program because it teaches how to decode the sight words so that he doesn’t have to memorize them. Please email me privately and I will try to help you. Also, have you tried visualizing and verbalizing by Lindamood-Bell? There is a long thread recently on this site. It is a real good program for memory work.

Yes, it does, Sheila, in the same way as does LIPS which is why if he’s having trouble with LIPS, he’ll encounter exactly the same type of trouble with Audiblox. They have many similarities, with LIPS being more intensive.

Thanks for mentioning that, Robin. It sounds like a really interesting book. Ijust ordered it! Looking forward to a good summer read.

Glad to hear this! For all the aggravation Stowell has caused in my district and others within range of her center!!!

Yes, some LD children have enough deficits that they make very slow progress, even with good teaching.

Audiblox is not a reading program.

Robin
Thank you for the information! I’m going to order the book for myself and my son’s teacher.
CJ

Shay, what is the difference between VV and Seeing Stars? Also which one might work best with PG (or following PG)?
Thanks!

First of all this child should be taught to read - not memorize. It didn’t work for my daughter. I taught her to read with Phono-Graphix and it was fast and helped her figure out how to read.

I don’t know too much about LIPS but I do know about Audiblox and I would recommend it. It might be slow going and you might not think anything’s happening, but give it at least three months. It helped my daughter to do grade level work, focus, remember, etc. I like it because it really has nothing to do with “schoolwork” and therefore is a break. Of course it helps with schoolwork, but the exercises themselves are a lot different from regular homework. It might not work for every child, but I would recommend it.

If I have offended you Candy, I am sorry…I am on pain medication and recovering from surgery. I know and respect both Regina Richards and Jill Stowell, they are very both very knowledgable about learning deficits, however they are not MD’s or Neuropsychiatrists, therefore it is not within their scope of practice to diagnose ADD or CAPD, in addition, it isn’t within my scope of practice either. I have seen how much you have gone through these past years with trying to advocate for your son…but I still wonder if something else is causing his delayed progress than just severe dyslexia/CAPD.

Here are some articles and books that I know of..

The neurological basis of developmental dyslexia. An overview and working hypothesis. Michel Habib Brain (2000), 123, 2373-2399

Memory Modality Differences in Children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder with and without learning Disabilities, Webster, R, Hall, c, Brown, M, Bolen, L Psychology in the Schools Vol 33 (3), 1996

Working memory function in attention defiict hyperactivy disordered and reading disabled children by Roodenrys, S, Koloski, N and Grainger, J., British Journal of Developmental Psychology, (2001) 19, 325-337.

Bayliss, D., Roodenrys, S. Executive Processing and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity disorder: An Application of the Supervisory Attentional System. Developmental Neuropsychology 17, 2, 161-180.

Language and ADD A detailed asssessment is key to determining whether a disorde has an attention of language basis Abigail Scott, Advance for Speech Language Pathologists and Audiologists 7-20-1998

Children with ADHD May need help wtih memory Lynn C. Richman, PhD Advance for speech Language Pathologists and Audiologists Jan, 17, 2000

Dyslexia and ADHD Comorbidity has repercussions for assessment and treatment Marc Iskowitz, Advance for Speech Language Pathologists and Audiologists July 20, 1998

Occurrence and Pattern of impaired Reading and Written Language in Children with Attention Devidit Disorders, Elbert, Jean, D., Annals of Dyslexia, vol.43, pg 26-43, 1993

What are Executive Functions and Self-Regulation and What do they have to do with Language Learning Disorders Singer, B, and Bashir, A., Langauge Speech and Hearing Services in Schools. Vol 30. 265-273 July 1999

Gomez, Rapson & Condon, Margaret Central Auditory Processing Ability in Chidlren with ADHD with and without learning disabilities. Journal of Learning Disabilities vol 32, 2, 150-58 March-April 1999.

Inattention, hyperactivity and impulsiveness: Their impact on academic achievement and progress C. Merrell & P.B. Tymms The British Journal of Education Psychology (2001) 71, 43, 56

Ability of dyslexic and control teenagers to sustain attention and inhibit responses Elisabeth Moores and Jackie Andrade European Journal of Cognitive Psychology (2000) 2 4, 520-540

Selective Auditory Attention and Children with Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder: Effects of repeated Measurement with and without Methylphenidate by Dalebout, S, and Nelson, N., Hletko, P and Frentheway, B
Language speech and Hearing Services in Schools, Volume 22 219-227 october 1991.

Waters, G., Caplan, D. & Hildebrandt, N. (1987) Working memory and written sentence comprehension. In M. Coltheart (ed) Attention and performace XII: The psychology of Reading 531-555.

Rapid Naming Deficits in Children and Adolescents with Reading Disabilities and Attention Defuicit Hyperactivity Disorder, Semrud,-Clikeman, Guy, K, Griffin, J., Hynd, G. Brain and Language 74, 70-83 (2000)

I would suggest going to UCLA and meeting with Lorie Humphries, a Neuropsychologist and researcher who specializes in children/teens with severe learning deficits. She is excellent at putting all the puzzle pieces together.

Laura,

There are good descriptions of V/V and Seeing Stars on the Lindamood-Bell site. Neither one duplicates PG. You’d do PG first. (Now Shay can come and tell me if I’m wrong. ;-)

Janis

CJ,

I am so excited because I DO have a good article on reading and memory and APD! My child has the same issues.

It is called “Working Memory, Language, and Reading” by Maxine Young

http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/memory-language

Janis

There aren’t any similarities between Seeing Stars and V/V. I just looked at my Lindamood-Bell circular and Seeing Stars seems to be the program that teaches the advanced code so likewise spelling patterns and fluency. They refer to this as ‘symbol’ imagery. V/V is a program that helps concept imagery, comprehending the ‘whole’ picture not just a few parts when reading a passage in literature or content. I looked at both Lindamood-Bell reading programs and PG five years ago and decided that PG was faster and I needed a ‘bare bones’ decoding program for my teenagers who had no time to lose. My daughter was nineteen at the time as well, a high school dropout and I needed something fast. PG met the above criteria. I haven’t had any reason to try any other decoding program because PG continues to meet the diverse needs of my students in my private practice as well as my high school students. So what I can say is that I do PG and then V/V if the student needs it . I particularly like to teach the notetaking lessons at the back of V/V. Truthfully, I think that any child would benefit from V/V. I sure wish I would have had this program when I was in college. It would have made doing homework and studying for tests a lot easier and faster. What I also like about it is that it is reciprical. My memory becomes better when I teach it. I decided that if I ever start losing my memory when I get older, I’ll just find kids to teach V/V to!!! A little bit of humor but seriously, I may need it!

Shay wrote:
>
> There aren’t any similarities between Seeing Stars and V/V.
> I just looked at my Lindamood-Bell circular and Seeing Stars
> seems to be the program that teaches the advanced code so
> likewise spelling patterns and fluency. They refer to this as
> ‘symbol’ imagery.

Actually, the theory behind both V/V and Seeing Stars is identical: that some people don’t make pictures in their minds. In some cases, they don’t picture images (concepts); in some cases, they don’t picture symbols (letters or numbers).

The more I teach both, the more similar I realize they are. My goal in each case is to get the student to visualize. The TECHNIQUES are different of course, and I’m certain that’s what you meant, Shay. But philosophically, they’re of the same breed.

It’s all about visualization in Seeing Stars just as it’s all about visualization in V/V and it’s all about visualization in Cloud Nine, the math program. The techniques taught to visualize concepts are different than the techniques to visualize symbols but the underlying principles are the same and many kids need both because they’re just plain not visualizing.

Joan, what I meant about them not being similar is that they both don’t remediate the same deficiency. The methods are based on the same premise, visualization, but Seeing Stars seems to remediate decoding/spelling skills and V/V remediates comprehension.

Joan,

I am trying to get a better understanding of the LB programs. It sounds like to me that one would have to have Seeing Stars as a follow-up to LiPS to have a complete decoding program. Is this correct or not? Would LiPS and SS content be the equivalent to PG (I understand that the methods are not the same, I just mean subject matter)?

I think that PG will help most of my kids. But there are severely HI kids who also have other auditory processing issues that may necessitate more than just PG. Of course, LB is doing a study now with deaf and hard of hearing kids and that will give me a lot more information when the results come out.

I wish the LB training was a little more reasonably priced. I am talking with someone now to see about borrowing training tapes. If this works out, then I will definitely do LiPS and V/V. But I was wondering if I’d then have a gap with not having SS. Right now, SS does not have training tapes unfortunately. I’ll probably call LB and ask if they have any plans to offer these.

I would just be so happy to have methods that work for my last few years of teaching. But it is a shame that I’d have to pay a small fortune to access this information on a teacher’s salary.

Janis

Thanks for the clarification! It sounds like VV may work well with PG. You mention that it even seems to help with memory (or at least visualization which is important for memory). Is the program multisensory? Is it similar to PG in that students can follow a plan (or a plan created by the teacher). Do you happen to know if the book (from Gander Press) has a teaching plan included or a recommended strategy?

Again thanks!

Yes, it’s correct to say that LIPS and SS would be a more intensive equivalent to PG. The LMB people are commencing SS earlier and earlier with their LIPS students. They feel that you can remediate better by blending the two programs.

SS is very easy. It’s like V/V in that there really isn’t a whole lot to learn. Frankly, if you’ve got the philosophy, you can do the program. If you can teach in the Socratic method - and from reading all your posts over time, I’m sure you can - then you’ll do fine just reading the manual. It’s easy and self-explanatory. In fact, in the actual training, they allow very little time for the SS portion because it’s so easy.

There’s lots of similarities between PG and LIPS. I find, though, that by the time kids come to me, they’ve been through various other programs, often including PG, and haven’t gotten very far. So in those instances, LIPS is what’s best. I tend to get the kids for whom nothing else has worked.

Thank you so much, Joan. I possibly may soon have the wonderful opportunity to borrow the LiPS and V/V tapes from someone I met on this board! It is encouraging to think that I could get the SS manual and fill in that gap.

I am extremely optimistic that with PG and the LB programs that I will be able to make a big difference in the quality of education I am providing my students. It’ll take me awhile to refine these skills, but I have never had so much to look forward to in all my years of teaching!

You, Shay, Patti, Sue, Victoria, MaryMN, Beth and so many others have been so helpful to me over these last few months. I owe you all many thanks and a hug, too!

Janis

CJ,
Mel Levine’s new book A Mind at a Time has an excellent chapter on memory and the possible areas of breakdown. So far I think it’s a great book.
Ann

My son uses phonographix for reading and spelling.

He could try to memorize spelling or reading words by repetition until the cows came home but it doesn’t work. Memorizing sight words is impossible.

He needs some kind of logical connection to why a word is spelled a specific way. Using phonemics to sound out a word in order to spell it or read it gives him that logical connection. The letters now have meaning, they are not just letters, they are sound pictures.
I don’t know if this is really why it works all I know that it works really well for him.

He is a great speller when I remind him to use his phonemic skills, that by the way, I proudly taught him using the book reading reflex.

Can someone explain what V/V is? Is it better for teaching students with memory problems or will Phon-Graphix work just as well?

Phono-Graphix and Visualizing and Vebalizing are two totally different programs. PG ‘s purpose is to teach a child to decode (read). V/V is to teach strategies for comprehension.