I would like to hear from teachers who use the Orton Gillingham, or Orton-Gillingham based programs how long it typically takes to see significant progress in the most severe cases. For instance, I am using the Wilson Reading System with a 7th grader who came to me knowing consonant sounds and short vowel sounds in isolation, but little more than that. I am satisfied that he has learned the skills worked on since September, but we’ve only made it to Step 3.1 so far—multisyllabic word with 2 closed syllables.
I think it should also be obvious that this child has experienced failure for a very long time, and to some extent has given up on himself as far as learning how to read. Explaining that dyslexia has nothing to do with how intelligent he is hasn’t made much of an impression.
Marilyn
Re: O/G-based reading approaches
My experience has been that students who have practiced their ineffective approach to reading for years, do take time. They have to break bad habits and establish new ones. They also have a bone fide disability. I think where you have gotten may be just fine, esp. if you feel he has mastered the skills up to this point. That foundation is so very important.
Re: O/G-based reading approaches
I also think you are doing fine. Kids this age who are mired in bad habits and have moderate to severe processing deficits can take some time just to change the routine their brain goes through when they are working on a new word. Somewhere I read that a habit takes up to 700 repetitions to establish- think of it that way and you will be impressed too:) If he is frustrated with the level of words- look for more challenging ones that fit the guidelines of what he has learned and include those in his lessons. SueJ has some on her site- but there are tons of word lists. Megawords is a spelling program that I often used as a resource- book one starts out with VCCV- up to three or four syllables. One of the words I always include for kids when they have open and closed syllables is streptococcus for example- it is a challenge to get through but boy are they impressed with themselves when they are done:)Fluency drills can be great morale boosters too…
Robin
Re: O/G-based reading approaches
Working 1:1 (2 students in a 50’ class, taking turns halfway through and doing independent work half the time), or 1:1 the whole period (the *most* severe students only), I generally made it through closed and vce and sometimes open syllables the first year. Taking it slow and going for automaticity with the closed syllables generally meant that vce went a little faster but some of my guys still had to do each vowel separately. However, once they had all the short and vowel sounds, the open syllables went a lot faster, as did the consonant-le syllables and R-controlled. All those vowel pairs were tough — I handled that differently with these students than most, especially the spelling part.
We *did* always do oral reading, every day, from “regular” books at their interest level, and from them developed a personal reading list and looked at spelling/phonics patterns there. So they were *not* limited to only reading materials with a few words :) So, if the student missed table, I’d make a list of a few similar words and explain the c-l-e idea but not spend a lot of time on it, just practice. THis of course made it easier when that came around on the guitar later.
another adjustment I make
I do mroe things like timed practice with drill decks and charting the times so they can see improvement, and I do about twice as much drill at the beginning of a lesson so there’s more “easy” stuff and to help that stuff actually stick (though sometimes the drill just takes twice as long, anyway, if it’s a slow-motor-skill kiddo). I’m sure you’re already always looking for subtle strengths and little parts of the process that he can do faster and better to focus on and build from.
We did have the serious advantage of having enough pretty severe kiddos that there were others in the same boat — and ones who had been there for two or three years and had the proof of the long-term benefits. It’s a lot tougher if you feel like you are the only one who’s as “stupid” as you are.
Re: another adjustment I make
Sue,
am I reading you correctly that if the child has not been remediated properly and the delay in reading skills is substantial such children progress better once they are educated between children with similar problems, vs. regular school and resource room help, when he is the only child in his class with such problem/help?
Re: another adjustment I make
Victoria:
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I should have been much more specific. This student is one of four students in the group. The fourth student started later and is still on the first step. The reason why I specifically referred to the student in my previous post is that he is the one student who had the weakest foundation at the beginning. I spend 50 minutes on the Wilson Reading System, and then see some of the same group later in the day for V/V and written communication. I am using Diana Hanbury King’s Writing Skills 1 with them.
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I hadn’t done much before now, but I just recently received many books from the SRA’s Specific Skills Series. Previously, I did not have appropriate materials for them to read. Also, his comprehension is far beyond his decoding skills. I wouldn’t want to insult him by offering materials that are too babyish. I think the Specific Skills Series books are all nonfiction passages, so, there would be nothing in them to insult his intelligence.
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I am teaching him in a Special Ed. Resource program in a public school setting.
Thanks again for your response.
Marilyn
Re: another adjustment I make
Robin:
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I have a hard enough time getting him to read the vocabulary lists in the Wilson program, itself. He feels challenged enough. I have the Phyllis Fischer Multisequence Drills, which he refuses to try at this point. I wish there were a way to show him how bright he is. Words have failed to do the job.
Thanks again for your response.
Marilyn
Re: another adjustment I make
It just made it easier for my students to see the “light at the end of the tunnel.” THere were also disadvantages to being in a “special school” — perceived as being something for people ” worse” than special ed students in a regular school. These problems usually (not always) worked themselves out as the students realized that we actually had much higher (yet appropriate) expectations of them.
Re: another adjustment I make
Don’t know if this helps but I explained it to my son this way. He’s not stupid. His brain is like a computer. He has some great programs in his brain that he’s good at, but just like on the computer sometimes you have to download a program that will allow another to program to run…. He was born without one of those programs that enables his brain to run the learning to read program. That means he has to put it in manually. That takes more time and skill and labor on his part, but he’s learning skills like persistence, attention to detail, courage while he’s doing it. This , just like weight resistence for his muscles, will make him stronger and able to conquer any hard obstacle that comes up for him in the future.
Re: another adjustment I make
Poor guy-that is so sad. This is kid for whom the record keeping part would be essential I think- he needs to see in a visible way- what he can do now that he could not do before. I also wouldn’t give up on throwing a longer word or two his way- maybe at the bottom of his list? or first depending on his mood at the time. And when he balks- tell him it is just one word and he can -so he will. There is a need for a little tough love with defeated seventh grade boys- their egos are fragile enough under the best of circumstances- and by not compromising and holding him to the mat occasionally you give him the message that he CAN TOO read those words. Your expectations are more telling than any encouraging words. Think of a staff sargeant or a football coach sort of model…? combined with the underlying truth that you will not hold him accountable for what you have not taught him.
I know you will make good choices for this kiddo Marilyn- take care.
Robin
Re: O/G-based reading approaches
I suppose you have been using the Bonnie Klein stories that go along with the Wilson program? Those can be kind of a deterent to reading for older kids as they are kind of babyish and the middle school kids find them boring. What I would suggest is getting a hold of Read Naturally and having him read along with the tapes and practice reading everyday that way. This is a neurological impress technique that incorporates listening, reading, fluency and cements what you are doing in teaching the phonological rules. He is starting to understand the phonological rules but sometimes as educators we don’t give them enough quantity time spent practicing their reading skills by being immersed in interesting stories and literature to help them develop fluency and reading for meaning. To many of these kids reading is a drudge and we have to go through the back door to help them realize that it can be a fun way to learn many new things about the world and things that interest them..
Do you do read alouds in the class with a book for them to follow along in? This is another way to help them with focusing, fluency, auditory memory and making the connections between the sound and symbol relationship that you have been working on. After I do my read aloud we discuss what we read for comprehension and also do some predictions for what they think will happen in the next chapter. You have come along way in the short amount of time that you have been working with him. Old habits are indeed hard to break but you are doing a great job…
Re: O/G-based reading approaches
I make up my own sentences, passages, and short stories. They are humorous and appeal to the sense of humor of 10 year old boys. I teach only one 10 year old boy, my son. I also look for non-fiction books and articles that I can adapt to fit our needs. It is time consuming, but worth it. My son sometimes helps me make up stories and gives me most of my ideas for stories.
It seems that your student is making good progress. My son was a complete non-reader last summer (2001). After 8 months of Orton-Gillingham instruction, he has gone through cvc, open syllables, vce, and the s-blends. He still has some bad habits that appear now and than—guessing, shouting out a word because it starts with the same sound, etc. I use Patterns for Success in Reading and Spelling: A Multisensory Approach to Teaching Phonics and Word Analysis by Henry and Redding. We are on Chapter 16 of Part One.
One new thing that we started to do to supplement our lessons and keep then fresh is spend time reading lables and signs in the super market, hardware stores, toy stores, etc.
Good Luck! Val
Re: Great analogy (NT)
Pattim:
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No, actually, I’ve been using the stories in the Wilson readers. Eventually, I hope to add some more decodeable readers. Also, the J & J readers from the Language! program (Sopris West) has also been suggested. Read Naturally sounds great, but I’ve spent all my funds for this school year. I just asked my director to spring for the LexiaLearning software, which I’m very impressed with.
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That sounds like a great idea! Do you have specific suggestions in mind?
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Thanks so much for your vote of confidence. It is much appreciated!
Marilyn
Re: Great analogy (NT)
STone Fox by JOhn Reynolds Gardiner is a good, quick read that they could even take some turns reading in, and you’d still finish it this year. _Holes_ by Louis Sachar is another real favorite and it’s a Newbery winner. It’s also a great example of the “tall tale” genre — not so much as to be ridiculous but enough to be lots of fun. (There are summaries of both — and lots of other books, for that matter — on my site under “reading comprehension” at www.resourceroom.net) _Freak the MIghty_ is a book that has a movie of it about a lower SES LD kid’s adventures — I like that it’s not a “problem” book *about* LD, it’s just a story about a kid with LDs, almost as if adventures could happen to them too.
Re: another adjustment I make
Well, I always tell my students that we’re going to review some basic stuff for a short time. As long as it’s review and not the entire year’s program, they find it helpful rather than insulting. Of course, that’s in a one-to-one situation with nobody else pressuring them or laughing at them. Given the limited one-to-one time you have and the constraints of working in a school class, the amount of progress you’ve made seems perfectly reasonable.
Look at it this way: your student should now be able to read controlled continuous text, something he couldn’t do before. By the end of this year he should be able to read limited vocabulary easy readers. By the end of next year he will be able to handle work close to grade level if given time. That’s ten times as much progress as he made in school before, so don’t stand for criticism of going slowly. Keep reminding him and everyone else that there is no value in a fast mistake.
Re: Great analogy (NT)
Somewhere down below is a message from Val- who writes her own stories- I do this too. My earliest effort in this direction was about an infantile mantis- my seventh grader (tutee) thought it was hysterical- he was so busy telling me how dumb it was that he forgot to be embarrassed:) But he read it- and all the rest too. Currently I have one going for an LI student that I am doing PG sorts of stuff with about making bread- so that we use a lot of functional vocabulary also. It takes time but I haven’t yet found a prepackaged story- I haven’t looked at Sue’s- that even comes close to sounding like real language - or anything I would want to read. We also choose a novel to read together too- after we have enough stuff under out belt that the reasonable novels aren’t insulting or too hard.
Robin
Going from near nothing to two-syllable words in five months is fair progress! Sometimes it works faster than that when the student has learned some basics but just hasn’t put them together; other times it’s even slower.
Three questions:
How much time do you have with this student? If you have a lesson every day I’d hope to go a little faster, but if you only have two one-hour sessions a week this is quite decent progress.
Are you doing any reading other than workbooks and drills? I find that it is extremely improtant to read continuous text. I start my students on books that are well below their official reading level so they can attain some degree of fluency, we read through a set of readers with strictly graded vocabulary, and we study that vocabulary phonetically according to the patterns/rules we are studying. This brings home to the student that reading is meaningful and interesting and that the phonics study is good for something.
What is the student getting for schooling other than your tutoring? I find that sometimes, with all the good intentions in the world (and we know what road they pave) students’ home-room teachers say and do things that directly undercut the good work done in tutoring. For example you have spent months driving home the idea of taking time and analyzing words, and then the teacher holds the kid up to ridicule for being so slow; you have spent months working on left-to-right tracking and consistency, and the teacher makes fun of that and says in class to just guess from the look of the word. Even worse, the parents sometimes undercut your work (what does SHE know — she’s not a REAL teacher) and so on.