Reading instruction

As if I didn’t say enough, I forgot to mention that I use the phonographix with my son and have asked my brother several times to use the book with me and he isn’t comfortable doing it.

I have come just short of begging him but backed off and respected his decision. Unfortunately, we do not have an phonographix trainers in my state.

K.

I know there have been other posts about your brother. I’ve read them, but not sure I have ever responded.

Do you get a report each grading period on progress toward IEP goals/objectives? If not, ask for it. If your goals are too general, tighten them down in a new IEP meeting. (I’ve written some GnO’s and Present Level of Performance on line with folks a few years ago. You have to be able to demonstrate that the placement you have now is not enough to make progress. You may feel it in your heart, but must be much more quantitative in order to move that principal to spending shrinking budget dollars on private tutors.

Parents/advocates cannot legally demand methods or programs: that final decision rests w/principal, administration, and school board. They can suggest, though.

I’m not convinced (in fact, pretty set in opposition) that any program—whether it is PG, OG, or any other G—is the panacea for all reading ills. There is more than one way to do this. However, the instruction remains fairly sequential within categories. I’ll not go through that discourse again—there’s a fairly good one below somewhere.

Post the GnO’s from the IEP if you wish. Usually they’re written so loosely than my doggie could achieve them. School will sit up straight when the Present Level is written clearly and the GnO’s are clear, detailed, and measureable.

It is hard work so be prepared for many drafts.

Susan, you know I agree with you completely. But the only problem is, you can have the best written IEP in the world and if the teacher does not know how to teach reading, he’s still not going to make gains. You are in a great area that offers multisensory structured language training for teachers at a fairly reasonable cost, but as I mentioned yesterday, it’s over $1000 where I am for OG or LB. So, the school system won’t pay for the training and the teachers won’t either. People like you and I do because we had the passion to learn due to our own children and a desire to help others. But we have many well meaning teachers in our system who simply have neither the training nor materials to teach reading to LD kids effectively. A child in my district that starts out LD never gets out..unless they drop out.

I just worry that K.’s brother is running out of time to be fighting the school.

K., is there any way your parents can get private tutoring for him even if it takes a loan to do so?

Janis

Yes, the easiest and less stressful way is usually to hire one’s own tutor. Then parent is in control.

I and/or others have suggested private tutoring before to K (I remember the threads—just not sure I posted.) I got the idea that K. thinks school should pay for this or there is some other problem. For some parents it is a matter of principle—they don’t want to pay for someone else’s mistakes. For others, they cannot afford to pay. (I was in the first category—matter of principle. Still am, largely.)

The logical range of choices for K. are:

1. Find & pay for a tutor (The Bill Gates Method)
2. Tutor yourself (The Susan Long Method)
3. Do nothing (The student’s nightmare)
4. Accept the school’s IEP (The School’s Dream)
5. Change the school’s IEP and then raise the roof when no progress is made on a measurable IEP. (That is often enough to get a tutor but can take a school year to get accomplished.) (The parent’s nightmare)
6. Change the school’s IEP and then trust they’ll do what you ask. (The Alice-in-Wonderland Method)

P.S. You can disagree with me. I change my mind a lot.
:-)

Susan, this is a classic! I’m copying it to save!!! After I stop laughing I’ll weigh in with where I stand…probably, do it yourself! Or one that you didn’t have. Invite the school personnel to go to training with the parent!!! (Seriously, the principal and LD teacher at Anna’s school went to PG training with me!!!)

Janis :-)

Hello,

First, I want to say how wonderful it is that your brother has you in his life. I really honor your commitment to him. I think that you can go in a few different directions here. You can forget about the school and hire a private tutor if that’s affordable, but unless the tutor and the school agree that this can occur during the school day, it will have to be later when he’s tired. Many students handle this quite well, but it is a consideration. Whether the instruction is in school or outside, it needs to be more intensive. It will be difficult for there to be progress when weeks go by during the vocational component without the tutoring. If it’s in school there needs to be a daily tutorial to replace all language arts instruction; otherwise a student like your brother is going to be confused by varying methods and sequences of instruction. If your family is going to pay for this, there need to be at least two and preferably three hourly sessions a week. I don’t know why Wilson didn’t work. It could be because the teacher wasn’t well trained, or perhaps it wasn’t intensive enough, or maybe the group was too large. It could also be that no one worked on phonemic awareness (if that’s a need), so that he wasn’t able to benefit from the phonics instruction. I agree that at this point he needs 1:1 remediation. OG would be preferable because it’s more adaptable to individual needs, but Wilson should be all right. On the other hand, he’s had it for 3 years with little success no matter what the reasons might be, so you have a good case for requesting another method.

I agree with Susan that if you want the school to provide different services, you need to start with a good IEP. But it’s also true, as Janis says, that even the best IEPs are worthless without well-trained teachers. Although the law doesn’t give parents the right to choose the methodology, it also doesn’t say that the methodology can’t be on the IEP. I’ve been a consultant on many cases with attorneys involved and you can be sure that the method was written into the agreement and attached to the IEP! In this situation, where so little gains have been made, your family is entitled to some serious input. Your brother’s case is pretty straightforward; it’s obvious that he needs intensive instruction. The only argument the school could really raise would be if he’s noncompliant or if his IQ is very low. Otherwise, his learning disabilities are clearly getting in his way and he needs specific instructional intervention.

If your family can possibly manage it, I’d recommend finding an educational advocate to help with this process as quickly as possible. If they can’t afford to pay for one, all states are required to offer some sort of advocacy assistance. How good this is varies from state to state. You also need to request (in writing) independent evaluations at school expense in your brother’s areas of need: speech and language, audiology, education, possibly occupational therapy (for the fine motor difficulties), and psychology. Hunt around and find the very best evaluators you can find. (If you need help figuring out how to find them, please post again.) These evaluations should spell out in detail what they recommend instructionally and for type of placement. You can then take the recommendations and use them for the basis of the goals and objectives that Susan mentioned. When preparing the IEP, the other really important part to look at besides the goals and objectives is the grid page, the one that says who will provide what services and how often. That needs to be very clear.

Again, you are a truly caring sister, and I wish you success with your efforts. Your brother deserves to learn how to read and the school system is obligated to teach him.

I don’t know if this would help… maybe you could offer your brother an incentive to do PG with you. I know for my son he earned Bionicles.

Although, since your brother is a little older, any incentives might be a bit more costly or difficult to do. But maybe you can come up with something. For example, a special outing, trip, video game or whatever he might want to earn after he finishes the book. You can also do smaller special things when he has worked hard on a particular section…like taking him out for ice cream or lunch.

You could always ask him what he might want to work toward earning.

Just an idea…

Who develops the IEP, the referring school district or the voc/tech high school? He should be attending the math and English MCAS tutoring sessions offered at school if he did not pass the 8th grade testing as well as doing the on-line MCAS tutoring. Yes push for a daily reading class, but without private tutoring at home, progress will be very slow.Your parents may want to get another opinion about the ADD…this may be the key to your brother’s success.

The MCAS is for Massachusetts. Do you live in MA, K? If so, I could hook you up with excellent advocates or attorneys.

I do realize that private tutoring has been suggested and it would be an option if my parents, or even myself, could afford it but we can not.

I guess I do have the idea that the school should be doing it, I guess that is wrong on my part. It is starting to seem that if a parent can’t afford private services, their kids are supposed to take the shaft, at least that is how it is working around here!! I am glad, honestly, to hear that this isn’t happening everywhere!

K.

Andrea,

Thank you for your comments, I truly appreciate them. My parents can’t afford a tutor but we do have an advocate who works with low to moderate income families. I have actually been training with her to become an advocate. She has agreed to come to the next meeting.

His IEP goals are weak. The sending school wrote the IEP and that is the district that we had so much trouble with. I am sure the new school hasn’t suggested new goals because the ones that are there now will be so easy for them to show that he has met. I have started to work on new goals but then the advocate also mentioned we need to start transition planning!!

Again, thanks for your suggestion and comments.

K.

It is funny that you mention that because I have been thinking of that myself. My brother has decided to do his own nightly homework with my son. I think this is a wonderful idea and will really benefit both children. My son does a Pg lesson every night, I am going to try and set up the beginning lessons that my brother would start with and just start by showing them to him!!

Hopefully, this with an incentive program will work!!

Thanks
K.

I spoke to his teacher about the ADD and not one teacher noted that he has any attention problems. He has been making great progress this year in school, I believe, in part because they are starting to teach him the way he needs to learn. The teachers are all very willing to work with him and with his family to get him what he needs. The old school kept saying that he wasn’t working hard enough!

He is going to have a really great report card this year, considering the last one he got at the old school was all D’s, except for some enrichment classes.

I guess I don’t believe the ADD diagnosis. The only time he has exhibited ADD symptoms is when he is put in a situation that irritates the APD, like a teacher who wonders the room. He has said himself in this type of situation he can’t “hear” the teacher.

Anyhow, he is doing well and the school is being helpful, I just feel that he needs different reading instruction to help him continue to make gains.

Thanks
K.

Andrea,

We are in Massachusetts. We have a great advocate. At one point we did hire an atty but I have to say, I was less than impressed. I have a list of atty’s that Pete Wright sent me, I would love to share them with you for your opinion, since I do not know anything about any of them.

Please email me and I will send them to you!

K.

I forgot to mention, he attended an MCAS math class and said it was very difficult for him because the teacher was covering things that she assumed the class already knew. The school has recently started a peer tutoring program, that I am going to talk with him about.

Also, I thought that only sophomores could use the online tutoring system, he is a freshmen.

Thanks
K.

I have a partial draft written now but I am not sure how to write, how these goals will be met. I wrote, present levels of performance, goals, including how they would be measure long term and short term.

K.

K,

I don’t have any great ideas but too agree with you philosophically that the school should do it but the realty is the schools do not do well by kids with severe learning disabilities. Your situation is complicated by the fact your brother is a teenager and thus not as open to tutoring by family members as a younger child would be.

This is where, as you know, you are so much ahead of the game with your son.

Beth

Thanks Beth,

I am going to try the incentives and having the lessons already prepared and see what happens.

Fortunately, the new school that my brother is in is accomodating and they have a lot of LD kids. Also, my brother is finally realizing that he needs to stay on top of his game. He is getting organized with folders and binders, doing his homework, everynight with my son, and asking for help when he needs it.

It is getting easier but their are some glitches that we need to work out!!

Thanks again,
K.

I have bribed my son at various times to do therapy. Certainly, in the situation you describe, that may be the best alternative. Once he starts experiencing some success, I bet it won’t even be necessary!!

Beth

Susan your posts are priceless. Your Bill-Gates - Alice in Wonderland quote has caused me to spend almost 20 minutes learning how to copy these messages to my hard drive. It just had to be preserved.

Hi K.

I’ve read many of your posts and I just want to commend you for all you are trying to do for your brother. He is so lucky to have you. Don’t give up. I used Phono-Graphix with my daughter when nothing else worked and she’s a good reader now. I also used Audiblox to enhance her sequencing, memory, and language. That was the key to her success as a student today. A lot of things will always be hard for her, but she has come so far. Audiblox isn’t that expensive. Check out their website at www.audiblox2000.com

Tell your brother that he can do it!

Good Luck!

///

Present levels of math performance: “Student” presently performs basic math calculations at the 6th and 10th percentiles as measured by the Woodcock Johnson III Math Calculation Skills and Broad Math Tests. Weaknesses in these areas impact his abilities to perform math calculations, including simple addition, subtractions, multiplication, and division.
His Math Reasoning scores are at the 26% percentile level and indicate his ability to analyze and solve practical math problems. With an increase in Basic Math Calculations skills and Broad Math, “Student”’s Math Reasoning skills score should increase by at least 10% percentile level.

Possible Math Goal: By the end of the year “Student” will use extended basic operations and equations, including addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, and apply them when using the problem solving process. This goal will be measured by an increase his Broad Math skills by at least 15% as measured by the Woodcock Johnson III Test of Achievement and/or comprehensive standardized testing instrument given annually. Given un-timed tests “Student” will increase use of higher-level math problems as measured by a periodic sampling of tests.

___________________________________________________________

Present Level of Reading Performance: “Student” reads a passage orally at the 2nd percentile level as measured by the Woodcock Johnson III Basic Reading Skills Test. “Student” has made gains with his decoding skills, although they are not at or even near grade level. Although he has made gains with a multisyllabic, multisensory reading program, he has been unable to translate and comprehend material he has read at his grade level.

Possible reading goal: By the beginning of next year “Student” will improve his basic reading skills and comprehension to a level commensurate with the curriculum material. By October 2003, “Student” will be able to read a passage of text orally at the 25th percentile as measured by the Gray Oral Reading Test or Woodcock Johnson III Test of Achievement given annually. “Student” will demonstrate growth in oral reading. Comprehension, improved fluency, rate and accuracy based on pre and post samples from informal and/or formal evaluations.

___________________________________________________________

Present Level of Written Language Performance: “Student”’s current scores on the Woodcock Johnson III Tests of Achievement, indicate a weakness in writing and written expression. His percentile ranks of the 2% percentile level on Broad Written Language, Basic Writing Skills percentile rank of 6%, and a Written Expression score of 10% percentile level, confirm a severe weakness in this area. He also was administered the punctuation and capitals test, where is score a .2% percentile level and on the spelling test he scored1% percentile level. Finally, his recent diagnosis (August 2002, Dr. Geraldine Cassens) of severely impaired graph motor speed (dysgraphia)will impact his present levels of performance.

Possible Written Language Goal: “Student” will transfer his thoughts into written form, through the use of Assistive technology, i.e. computer, using proper sentence structure, punctuation, spelling, and capitalization. This goal will be measured by an increase of 20% on a Wide Range Achievement Test, Woodcock Johnson III Tests of Achievement, and/or standardized testing instrument completed annually.Teachers will measure short term progress through pre and post samples from informal and/or formal evaluations
___________________________________________________________

Present Levels of Communication Performance: “Student” currently has difficulties when directions become lengthy and more complex. When sentences become more than 6 words in length, “Student” tends to lose track. “Student” has made gains with comprehension of material, particularly through the use of visualization. Higher-level language skills are challenging for him.

“Student”’s score on the CELF-3 dated December 2000, indicates a receptive language disorder, which was also noted in the independent evaluation (August 2002, Dr.X)
“Student” had extreme difficulty, as noted by the examiner, on the Test of Auditory Analysis Skills, a test used to measure the student’s ability to mentally manipulate information. He also had difficulty on the YOPP-Singer Test of Phoneme Segmentation, where is was asked to change vowel sounds, he himself admitted that the test was difficult for him. He scored low on the spelling of sounds (.1% percentile level), sound awareness (1% percentile level) and phonemic knowledge (.5% percentile level)

Possible communication goal: “Student” will answer questions orally after he is presented with a paragraph or short story, to demonstrate his understanding and recall of information.
This goal will be measured by increase of 10 points on the standard score of the CELF-3 receptive Language Score given annually.This goal will be measured short term by pre and post samples from informal and/or formal evaluations
___________________________________________________________

I still need to work on the how benchmarks, which have left me stumped and I have to consider transistion planning.

Thanks K.

Eleanor,

Thanks for the kind words, but half the time I cannot find the correct thread under which to place my responses. Believe me, in my everyday life folks don’t think I’m near so funny—rather a boring reading person really. Maybe I have a life and like this one best. :-)

Of course the school should be doing it; however, sometimes it takes less vital energy to pay for tutoring than to fight the battle. You shouldn’t be sorry for your perspective—it is yours and you will live with its perks and consequences. There are many choices because people have many, many different needs and wishes.

First, the goal is global (i.e., Student will read 1.5 grade levels higher as measured by an individual reading inventory) and then has specific objectives needed in order to reach that skill. (In other words, what skills will be teach in order to achieve this 1.5 level increase?)

The reason to stay away from standardized tests to measure GnO’s overall is that there aren’t usually 4-6 forms (one for each grading quarter or trister if that is the time period. Criterion-referenced tests work very well for GnO’s and can have many forms. There are tons of math tests around to see where are those skill levels. The other reason is that most standardized tests aren’t sensitive enough for teachers to work with while they teach.

If you are just dead-set on using standardized tests, use them to measure the Goal or to confirm the goal at the end of the school year. (That might be stated: Student will increase basic reading skill by 20 percentile points as measured by that cluster on the Woodcock Reading Mastery Test.) Using individual subtests is not recommended because they just aren’t usually reliable enough unless clustered with another subtest. Then, have the objectives be measured by a criterion test.

Without seeing all the test scores and knowing a lot more about the situation, I probably cannot help you write the individual goals. It would require way more time than I can give.

I think that’s a great idea to have your brother and son doing their work at the same time. Also, in addition, maybe there’s a way you can also enlist your brother to “help” teach PG to your son. It might take some creative thinking as to how he might be able to do this (especially if your son is ahead), but maybe there’s something he can help with that would ultimately help your brother (kind of a sneaky way to help him learn it! ;-)

There’s a saying that one of the best ways to learn something yourself is to help teach it to another person. Sometimes my husband will go over a difficult homework math concept with my daughter and later in the evening a friend from school will call wanting help with math. I’ve listened to her describe the concept (as her dad taught her) and I’ve always felt her helping others understand it is great reinforcement of what she has learned.

I think the combination of rewards and being of help (if you can figure a way he might be able to do so), might work real nicely.

Also, just knowing how hard most of these kids must work in order to make even a little progress, I believe they really deserve some type of reward for all the effort.

Good luck to you!

Laura has an excellent idea, and maybe the easiet one for you to accomplish in the shortest period of time. I have yet to have any student of any age not grasp the simple logic behind PG, the simplicity in the lessons and the error corrections. The logic of how words work is its most powerful component.

I just finished with an 8th grader who said this very thing to me last week. I don’t remember now what we were talking about but he said he could teach a child PG because he now knew how reading worked. I plan to use him to help tutor the younger kids I will be seeing this year in my school. When his mom came a few weeks ago to hear about her son’s progress, he looked over during the discussion, as I was trying to show his mom the code in a word and said, I think I know more about words then she does and he was right.

I might suggest you tell your brother you have a method of understanding words ( don’t call it a reading program) that you want to explain to him so he can do some of the valuable praciticing your son will need. I find the older kids can pick up the logic very quickly(I think Shay will second this) and as he helps your son , he will be helping himself. Your brother is old enough to take on the responsibility of helping himself. PG logic of how words work can be that self help tool he needs at his age.

Good luck.

Also, the big tests like Woodcock-Johnson are usually given only every three years / for tri-annual review. Just not enough forms of the test. Lots of good achievement tests are available, though. Need enough variety that student does not learn the test.

How do I word it, so that they use a variety of standardized tests?

K.

You really cannot word it to use a variety of standardized tests every quarter to prove GnO’s. It is just too time consuming and expensive. Criterion-referenced tests, like reading inventories or published wordlists, are really better for measuring objectives because they don’t cost $500-1,000 each and there are many forms of them. Here is an example of a goal/objective:

The goals need to reflect word recognition/decoding, fluency, and comprehension if those are areas identified in the Present Level as deficient. The Present Level should drive GnO’s.

The WJ-R or III can be given every 12 months and still be valid, especially if school owns two forms. Our district uses form G WRMT at the beginning of every school year and Form H for sped evaluations. (It is a cool $1000 in expenses to own both.) I like seeing that data and could be used to measure goals year-to-year if worded to match the cluster scores. Since the individual subtest scores have much lower reliability coefficients, I am always reluctant to use those—a 20 point or more spread could legally meet the goal!

Unless giving the supplementals, like Word Attack, I’m not thrilled with the WJ series for measuring reading skills. Doesn’t cluster nicely like the Woodcock Reading Mastery or Woodcock Diagnostic Reading Battery.

I do like the auditory tests in the WJIII, though, if you are familiar with that. Need to think about clusters that could do along with reading goals…Not sure about that one.

Forgot to delete that part of message. I thought about including it, but I just don’t know enough about your situation to write a suitable goal/objective for you. I don’t want to confuse you with those written especially for other people.

I don’t want the WJ given each quarter, I want it given yearly. However, I want to be shown some type of improvement quarterly other than a “Yes, sure he is making progress!” from his teachers. That is the route we have gone in the past and it has been completely inaffective.

K.

You can use the WJ once a year, but not sure it will still give you what you seek. Writing goals and objectives should be very personal…and is time consuming if done correctly. If done poorly, school may walk all over you.

I am not yet sure why Wilson was so ineffectual for your brother. Many struggling teachers do not use materials correctly. Even the best of programs may be bungled if folks don’t use apply the underlying methods and concepts well. That includes PG, you know.

Way up on this thread somewhere Janis mentioned that it is difficult to get teachers to implement a well-written IEP if they choose not to do so. She’s very right and I fear that without a strong, well-versed advocate (such as Andrea Kotula—since she’s near to you and has the experience as a reading teacher, advocate, and consultant), you may not have much success in changing their perspective. People, however, do not consult for free…and that seems to be a problem for you.

Sorry to be of so little help. Your somewhat terse tone implied a level of impatience or other negative feeling. I wish you luck notwithstanding.

This is just a side comment regarding the problem of having a great IEP carried out correctly. I know some very caring resource teachers in my district. And if someone came in with a well written IEP, they would do their best to help the child. But honestly, a teacher who is not adequately trained in any method, Wilson, OG, PG, LB, etc. will probably not be able to carry it out as intended. It seems to me that three years of Wilson should have worked assuming certain things: average or above ability level of the child (it seems like there was a question here earlier and I do not recall the outcome), a trained teacher who understands how to implement the program, enough service time, and possibly practice time at home which may require cooperation of the parents.

So I think the problem K. would face is that if her family paid for an advocate/consultant to get a well-written IEP, then how long would it really take to get that teacher trained in some additional methods which would meet the requirements of the IEP? Then, we all know that using a new program the first time is a learning experience for the teacher, so it may take longer (with some trial and error) for her to get used to teaching it. This is reality. (I know this first hand as I try to learn to use PG! I use my manual before every lesson at this point. I imagine in a couple of years, it will be more automatic.)

While I agree with everyone that it should be the school district’s burden to teach the child appropriately in the first place, since K’s brother is 14, they have little time to waste. So if they choose to spend the money for a consultant, then it still may take a year or more to get an adequately trained teacher in place. Or they can spend money to have him tutored privately. It is sad to say, but except in rare circumstances, you just aren’t going to get excellent MSSL reading instruction at the high school level without spending some money…either for the advocate/consultant or for an expert reading tutor (or I suppose one could take the training themselves which still costs money and time). I have been in my district for 14 years and never have the special ed. teachers been given training in any MSSL program. Apparently few parents know to ask for it. The ones I know who did all sought private OG tutors as they wanted one-on-one instruction to try to make faster progress. So it is not necessarily that teachers purposely choose not to implement the well-written IEP, they may not be given the training and materials to do so. I know we know this as teachers, but I thought I might should explain it for K’s benefit. The only other thing they could do is hire an attorney/advocate and try to go to court to get private school or tutoring since this boy has apparently never been properly remediated.

(And this is directed toward K’s last post): Worrying over the details like how progress will be reported every quarter is very premature, in my opinion. What is important is what he is being taught, and by whom, and how often? If those things are in place, I’d personally be very content to have an evaluation yearly and just teacher observation comments of his progress throughout the year.

Janis

I just caught up on these posts. First, thanks for the kind words, Susan, but I don’t work as an advocate. Of course I do consider myself an advocate for children, but my role when I go into schools is to decide whether programs and/or IEPs are appropriate for specific students, whether there is compliance to the goals and objectives of the IEP, or to help determine an appropriate program for a student. I sometimes attend team meetings at schools to help interpret the results of my own educational elvaluation and in that role I defend my conclusions and recommendations, but I leave the advocacy to professional advocates who know all the nuances of special education law and case law. I refer to advocates and attorneys as appropriate.

Regarding Janis’ issue of the length of time it takes to train a teacher and get the program implemented, while this is a real concern, it should not be the family’s concern. The school district is obligated to provide the services they write into the IEP. How they do this is entirely their problem, although the family could make some suggestions (e.g., provide a list of appropriate tutors who are certified in the program). The family is NOT obligated to wait until the district trains somebody and gives her or him the time to become experienced in providing the program. We certainly like districts to train their teachers well, but in the meantime, the district is obligated to find someone else to provide the services if no one in the system is available. K wrote that the family has an educational advocate. Any experienced advocate would already know that, so I’m assuming that this isn’t an issue. I really get tired of hearing school administrators tell parents that they can’t provide services because they don’t have the programs or the staff available. That is not an option in the federal law (IDEA). First the IEP team (including parents and older students) decides what services are required; then the district finds a way to provide the services. It can pull someone in from a different school. It can bring outsiders in on a fee-per-service basis until its own staff people are trained (or forever). It can hire new people. It can pay to send the student to an out-of-district placement. But what it cannot legally do is tell families to wait until the staff are trained and experienced.

Andrea,

I hope you understand that I completely agree with what you said. My point was that the district will be slow to implement and train unless the family has a very good advocate or lawyer to demand immediate services. They will always use the excuse of having no one trained to buy more time (which is costly for the child). But a district will never just offer to pay for private tutoring. That usually only happens with an experienced advocate or lawyer…in my experience. I know of a case right this minute where a parent has a child labeled LD and she is paying $60 per hour for private OG tutoring. I think the school should be paying for it since they are providing no MSSL instruction at school. But she works at the school so she has other considerations when deciding how much to demand.

Janis

<>

And isn’t that sad? I agree that that’s the case more often than not. What I’m trying to say to families is that they do have rights and that they need to know what those rights are so that they don’t get knocked over when the truck comes rolling by. A well-trained advocate (and not all of them are well-trained) is really helpful. It’s easier if you can hire one, but if not there are other ways, although unfortunately not usually as quick. But knowing what your rights are and then going into the meeting with a smile—no need to be any more adversarial than absolutely necessary—AND with the assurance that you’re not going to sign anything until your child’s rights are met will take you a long way. You can call your state department of education, special education division, if you think your rights are being violated. You need to have a copy of the IDEA regulations and your state’s regs and you need to understand them. Your state can extend the federal regulations, but they’re not allowed to offer less. If you know what your rights are and you have the expectation that they will be met, you stand a much better chance. Be certain and forceful but never rude. Assume nothing. Bring someone who is knowledgeable about the regulations with you to the meeting but not someone who will be emotional or strident. Emotional displays will not be interpreted as caring; they will be seen as weakness. You cannot appear weak. I hope that those of you who are new to this understand what I’m saying. You have a lot of legal clout. It was built into the federal law. But school meetings are often intimidating. That old expression about never letting them see you sweat has some merit. Appear strong. Know that you’re right, but don’t ask for something that’s outrageous (e.g., private school at district expense when your student is only a year below grade level). Be calm but clear. If you can’t do that, bring someone along who can and who’s willing to speak on your behalf. If it comes down to it, you can very subtlly mention the possibility of bringing this issue to a due process hearing. You may not want to do that, but you could bring the possibility of it up. Recently I was scheduled to evaluate a high school student. The parent has an advocate, but he has not made this known to the school yet. The parent’s attitude to the school (I was sent copies of the correspondence) was that this evaluation WILL be conducted at school expense. When I spoke with the school representative, I was told that the cost was too high. However, before I even spoke to her again, the parent was granted the independent evaluation. I think it was because of his absolute clarity and assurance. Anyway, I went on too long but wanted to say that although I agree with you, Janis, I also know that parents have more power than they often realize.

I guess the reason that my tone is implying that I am impatient and/or having negative feelings has nothing to do with this conversation and/or this board.

As many people know we have been trying to just get my brother the right services for some time now and I have lost my ability with the school to play wait and see. I prefer to find out what he needs and have it implemented. This may seem like an ill-fated plan but the last school fluffed us off and wasted so much of his precious time, I am not willing to sit around and wait any longer.

I apologize to anyone who felt that I was directing my comments at them or speaking in a negative way, that came across as being personal. I am truly fed up with the schools lack of progress.

K.

I just wanted to add that we have a very well educated advocate who has been working with the family for about 3 years now. She will be attending the next meeting, to clarify services, work on goals, start transition planning, and make sure all necessary accomodation are in the IEP for the MCAS.

I trust the judgement of the advocate and she works so closely with our family that she completely understands my brother’s needs and we trust her completely. The school has been using some “old tricks” and I have been consulting with the advocate about them. She has worked with the school district many times before and she said that the SPED director pulls no punches when she shows up.

That being said, I like to know everything about everything, not only for my families sake but for other Mom’s that I talk with. It is better to know everything and then some, at least in my opinion.

K.

Absolutely true, Andrea. One of my greatest frustrations as an educator is trying to get parents to exercise their rights in regard to gettting appropriate services for their children. I can quietly advocate and instruct parents, however, they must be the ones to exert their rights. I mainly teach hearing impaired students and I often see them not getting the level of services needed for their very severe disabling conditions. There has been a direct correlation between the quality of advocacy and knowledge of the parents and the academic success of their children in my experience.

As a parent of a child who has an auditory processing disorder and has an IEP for speech/langauge, I make it my business to know more than anyone else in the meeting about my child’s disorder and needs. I am kind and cooperative, but at the same time give my (reasonable) expectations clearly. Thus far, I have received everything I have asked for my child. (She goes to a public charter school and not a school in the system in which I work).

Your advice to parents is excellent.

Janis

There is a point to stop trying to get a school system to “fix” a child and either do it yourself and est. your own goals, or fight for a private placement, or both. K has posted much info. about her brother, his IQ scores and academic achievement scores and the family’s wish to have remediation thru the public school, which in this case is a voc/tech hs. My view is that this is the time for functional goals(reading a driver’s manual, balancing a checkbook, filling out job applications, doing tax forms, reading the newspaper, etc.), and not goals of so many percentiles on academic achievement tests; the students in voc/tech hs are there for a functional type of training which sounds very appropriate. Very severely LD students might get better rememdiation in a general academic hs;or in a private school for LD kids…but these tend to be very bright kids without other problems. K’s brother also needs an opprtunity to attend and participate in a IEP/transition meeting since he is 14yo.

I guess that is where part of my confusion and/or disappointment comes in, this is a new school, who has always insisted that they can get him what he needs. Now, I am not naive but I also do not believe that he should have to have a 3rd grade reading level for the rest of his life, when everyone, educators included, are saying that he is capable of so much more.

I agree that he needs the skills such as reading a driver’s manual, balancing a checkbook, filling out job applications, and doing tax forms. That is part of his transistion planning, which I believe can be combined with some attainable academic goals.

My family, financially, is not able to afford tutors and private services. I understand that a school doesn’t actually have to do anything but I am not going to let my brother fall through the cracks because his school doesn’t want to spend money on the right services, I simply don’t believe in that and neither does our advocate. I guess in a sense, saying well the best you will ever be is a 3rd grade reader, is a copout, on my part and the schools.

He also knows that he is capable of being a better reader and better student. He has spent the last week getting organized, getting binders to keep track of completed work, getting new folder for all his homeworks and classwork, making sure he has pencils, pens, highlighters, charged alpha smart batteries. He is finally starting to feel comfortable and realize his own potential. There is no way I will not run with that and get him what he needs.

I guess I am a dreamer, but I would never forgive myself if I stepped and crushed someone else’s dreams, that isn’t my duty as his sister!

K.

K.,

Have you determined why the Wilson did not work for him? Realistically, that is as good as any MSSL program that a school can expect to offer. So if he had that for three years without any progress, what did the advocate have to say is the reason? Did he not have enough service? Was the teacher untrained? It should not taken three years to realize it wasn’t working. You must get to the reason behind why he was not successful. Does he have other areas of difficulty besides the reading disorder? Or is he really a slow learner and not at the level that would benefit from an OG related program? I just think you need to analyze exactly what the problem is here before you determine what the next step should be.

Janis

My best guess at why the Wilson did not work is because the instructor was not properly trained in how to administer the program to several students at one time.

Also, a lot of the time that he should have been getting Wilson, the teacher was picking up the slack of the other teachers. Basically keeping him floating in school. We knew she was doing this and we were fighting to get the other teachers to do what they were supposed to. We did not know anything about anything up until 7th grade, when we met the advocate. Until that point the school was saying that he was simply not trying hard enough. I think that he made some gains with Wilson but not enough for a three year period. It also didn’t help matters that he was only receiving about 30 minutes of speech and language a week and that the regular ed teacher basically did nothing to help accomodate him. My only mistake was not filing suit against this school sytsem.

My family and I did what I am sure many parents have done before us and will do behind us, we trusted the school system and believed that they were doing the best and providing the best for my brother.

I have been trying very hard to put the past in the past and make sure that we do not have a repeat performance at the other school. My only comfort has been that I have met several other families, who have told the same story about the exact same teachers and exact same school. Basically, you could interchange the names of the stories I have heard from other families!

K.

K.,

You are very right that the vast majority of parents just trust the schools. Our system doesn’t even offer Wilson, and parents just don’t know enough to ask for it (or any MSSL program). None of our kids here “graduate” from LD..once placed, always LD. (With the exception of those who are re-evaluated and miss the discrepancy because their IQ’s have fallen.) The high ability level ones who can make it in regular class can sometimes meet the graduation requirements, but the majority, I imagine, end up dropping out or getting a certificate of attendance.

But at least your district has a vocational program. That sounds like a good option at this point for your brother. And any additional reading improvement he makes will just help him in whatever he ends up doing in the future. Please let us know what happens.

Janis

I took the “easy way out” and privately paid for tutoring.

I am, however, NOT planning on paying for it for my grandchildren!. If I had had more time (7 yr old) and known what I know now when she was in preschool, the school would have paid for her reading. I didn’t want my child to lose any time waiting for the school to provide.

Can you tell us if there is a specific section in IDEA that says the school must pay for this specialized tutoring if they do not have the program? Or is it pretty cut and dry?

I have been able to acquire laptop and assistive tech for my 4th grade daughter through writing letters and copying everyone (I’m much more sane on paper) :0).

I copied your post for future reading and sharing - hope you don’t mind.

Leah,

I would not even think of attempting to answer for Andrea as I look forward to reading her excellent posts, too, but I did want to comment on one thing you said.

No, a parent cannot demand a particular program. But if I were to pursue reading tutoring for my child paid for by the school system, I would get an outside eval that said the child MUST have a multi-sensory structured language approach to reading which would include a plentiful list of programs such as OG, Lindamood-Bell, Wilson, and others. Present that to the IEP team and if the team agrees, then the school has the option to provide that instruction at school or to pay a private tutor if they cannot provide the service.

The problem I see, and I think it is illustrated in K’s brother’s case, is that they DID finally get Wilson provided at school, but he clearly did not have his reading remediated after three years of the program. So I think it still goes back to the thought…am I willing to take the chance that the school will fail with my child or will I make the financial sacrifices necessary to get the best quality one-on-one tutoring available to be sure my child is remediated in the shortest amount of time? Almost no schools that I know of offer one-on-one reading tutoring, so if I end up needing that for my child, you’d better bet I’ll either do it myself or pay for it to be done privately by a very experienced person. Time is precious in those early years. I have read of people who have obtained loans to do programs like Lindamood-Bell. My own child (APD) is repeating first grade at the moment and is doing very well with Saxon Phonics plus speech/language 3 x per week. But if she is not on grade level at the end of this year I will probably take her for a PG intensive and then go from there.

So Leah, unless IDEA gets dramatically changed for the better (meaning early and intensive intervention with proven programs combined with lower caseloads), I would not rule out paying for our grandchildren’s reading tutoring. But we can always hope!

Janis

Well said, Janis! I explained at my first IEP meeting (child study team) that apparently I WAS the expert on my child since no one at school even wanted to test her and I went out and paid privately for that too. When they saw the results, and that I knew what I was talking about, they became more cooperative. I do still however have to be vigilant and determined in order to make the school provide what my daughter is entitled to. Most parents either don’t know, don’t care, are too busy, or believe the “professionals”. I am VERY interested in helping to educate parents in my local school district.