W as a Vowel

I can only speak for my son who is in 5th

He has been reading by sight alone and, for a few years, this worked well as he has a strong visual memory. But as the number of words he had to memorize grew, along with the length of those words, it became too taxing. He had to be taught to dissect the words and use a system to sound them out.

Phonics? Yes, but more complicated than whay he may have had in 1st grade-most phonics programs dont go past simple short vowel words(pup.cup.hat) with a few longs thrown in. It isnt enough for kids like my son and probably was taught at an age when he wasnt individually ready to read(my personal opinion)

So this worksheet is very appropriate and what I have been paying a private tutor to do. Resource in 2 different schools never seemed to want to ‘go backwards’ and teach skills he was supposed to have learned long ago. They tend to do the same things the classroom does in a smaller group.

I think you are lucky she is willing to approach it this way

Yes, W can be a vowel but Im at a loss to remember why. Is it the ‘aw’ ‘ow’ combos???? Somebody here will know

W is sometimes a vowel when paired with a vowel: aw, ow. The correct thing to say is W works with a vowel, so sometimes it acts like a vowel.

(a) No, it’s not a new rule, in fact it’s an old traditional rule — I remember this from my childhood back in the dark ages of the 1950’s.
People tried to “simplify” phonics by leaving out all the detailed rules, and we all know how well this “simplified” — ie watered-down — phonics hasn’t been working. The above post describing a so-called “phonics” program that barely teaches the short vowels is unfortanately typical, and ineffective.

(b) Yes, w is counted as a vowel in the vowel combinations aw and ew and ow, but never in on its own in English. This is often very confusing to the child, and should be spelled out when the rule is taught.
Good programs spend relatively little time on rule. Phonographix claims to teach no rules at all, but I hear that it tends to run into difficulty with multisyllable words which are often too much to do without an analytical method.
Good programs spend most of the time on practical examples. In Book 2 you do now, cow, how, brown, etc. and in Book 3 you compare the two patterns how, cow, versus low, mow and the problem of bow like cow and bow like low.

(3)Book 3 also does multisyllables and the decision of long versus short vowel — the one-consonant versus two-consonant syllable division rule is good nearly 90% of the time and is simple enough to be really practical. Consider the pairs hopping - hoping, ratting - rating, and you see how this rule helps with both reading and spelling.

The work your son is getting is quite good and effective IF he is ready to take advantage of it. If he can sound out short-vowel and regular long-vowel one-syllable words and has over three hundred word (and preferably a thousand word) fluent reading vocabulary, then this can be a good program.

Hi victoria,

I don’t share your enthusiasm in this case. Take another look at the first message and put yourself in the position of a 4th grader reading at a 1st grade level and it’s hard to see how you’d keep from being totally confused. Ditto for Mom.

Granted, aw, ew and ow represent vowel sounds, but that sure isn’t what the worksheet said. It simply said w is a vowel…sometimes….really clear????

Also, a vowel before a consonant is short….what the heck does that mean, unless you already know and can figure out the exceptions, etc. It’s meaningless to the parties it was aimed at.

I would really be surprised if the child in question (already three years behind) gets anything useful from instruction of that nature. At the very least, the structure of the worksheet reveals that the teacher doesn’t feel that parental help will be of any value, or it would have been much clearer.

Besides, there are actually a couple of curricula that actually do teach “w” as an independent vowel sound to be read as /oo/. Thus, “cow” is /k/o/oo/. I’ve worked with a couple of kids trained this way and they are hard to straighten back out. They think “cow” has three sounds. This isn’t what you meant, of course, but it might be what that instruction sheet meant…who knows?

Rod

Rod:

I wrote, I thought very clearly and specifically

>The work your son is getting is quite good and effective IF he is ready to take >advantage of it. If he can sound out short-vowel and regular long-vowel one->syllable words and has over three hundred word (and preferably a thousand >word) fluent reading vocabulary, then this can be a good program

Note that this very clearly states that a kid still struggling with Grade 1 level work (less than 300-word vocabulary, maybe sounding out short vowels but rarely long) would definitely not be ready for the work given.

I also added a note stating clearly that good programs emphasize learning the patterns such as ow and aw, rather than focusing on rules.

I don’t know why you have chosen to criticize my posts so often and so harshly, but if you do think I am wrong, please at least read the posts statements before you do so. Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge. I greatly appreciate the information.

I have since found out that the exercise came from a program called “Recipe for Reading” and the part that I quoted in my orginial post was intended to be read as it was written.

I’ve been asking folks, a couple of teachers, my child’s reading tutor and looked for information on the internet. I’ve learned much about the letter and the truth of the statement depends on who you speak to. Some have told me that they know it, but don’t teach it because it is to confusing. Other folks have told me about the “aw” Paw, and ‘ow” Pow explination for “w” being a vowel. I hear the sound and understand the statement, but in that case in order for “w” to be a vowel it needs to be paired with another vowel (like o / a ) so is it really then a vowel? Isn’t that more like a vowel “tag team”. Can the letter “w” ever stand on it’s own and be a vowel (like the letter “a” for example)?
Like the statement says: the Vowels are A/E/I/O/U sometimes Y and W all of the other letters can be a vowel on their own - without the assistance of another vowel. If I had to think this hard about it, and I got so many different opinions on the subject I begining to believe the validity of the program.

Hi Victoria,

I apologize if what I wrote seemed harsh. I was irritated with the instruction sheet, not with what you wrote about it. Beyond that, I was simply trying to explain where I disagreed with your opinion of the worksheet and why I disagreed with it.

I certainly wasn’t aware that I have had a habit of criticizing you “so often and so harshly,” especially since I agree with most of what you post in here and respect your approach to teaching reading. So, thanks for pointing it out….I certainly didn’t mean any disrepect to you….Rod

Well, language is a very slippery subject and trying to write simple rules is very difficult.

w and y and some dialectical variants of r are what are called “semi-vowels” in linguistics.
A consonant involves a stoppage or restriction on the air flow through your mouth. Examples p — stop with both lips; s — restrict with teeth and tongue; k— stop with back of tongue against palate; h — restrict by tightening the throat.
A vowel is formed with free air flow through the mouth.
Vowel sounds can be made alone; most consonant sounds (excepting those like m and s and f) require a vowel sound to be pronounced with them, thus the name “consonant”. For example you cannot say [p] alone, but rather have to say “puh”. (side note: some anti-phonics believers use this as an argument against phonics. Just say as little “uh” as possible and ignore them.)
A semi-vowel is actually a vowel sound although it is used as a consonant according to the rules of English structure. Try this: say ee-oo, then say it faster and faster. You’ll find you’re saying “you”.Say oo-ee, then say it faster and faster. You’ll find that you’re saying “we”. Y is just a very quick ee sliding to the next vowel, and w is just a very quick oo sliding to the next vowel.

So, do we teach this to beginners? No. Reading is confusing enough without getting into the murky depths of linguistics hair-splitting. Just teach the ow and aw and ew combinations and explain that these are vowel sounds where w plays a second role, and that is plenty.

I posted this info above but it belongs in this thread as well.

You mentioned students who have been taught to say “oo” for w. Well, that isn’t entirely wrong. I think it’s impractical and I wouldn’t do it (except with my Chinese students I sometimes have to re-teach many sounds from the ground up), but it’s not nearly as wrong as you think. If you study linguistics, you will learn about semi-vowels.

Language is a very slippery subject and trying to write simple rules is very difficult.

w and y and some dialectical variants of r are what are called “semi-vowels” in linguistics.
A consonant involves a stoppage or restriction on the air flow through your mouth. Examples p — stop with both lips; s — restrict with teeth and tongue; k— stop with back of tongue against palate; h — restrict by tightening the throat.
A vowel is formed with free air flow through the mouth.
Vowel sounds can be made alone; most consonant sounds (excepting those like m and s and f) require a vowel sound to be pronounced with them, thus the name “consonant”. For example you cannot say [p] alone, but rather have to say “puh”. (side note: some anti-phonics believers use this as an argument against phonics. Just say as little “uh” as possible and ignore them.)
A semi-vowel is actually a vowel sound although it is used as a consonant according to the rules of English structure. Try this: say ee-oo, then say it faster and faster. You’ll find you’re saying “you”.Say oo-ee, then say it faster and faster. You’ll find that you’re saying “we”. Y is just a very quick ee sliding to the next vowel, and w is just a very quick oo sliding to the next vowel.

So, do we teach this to beginners? No. Reading is confusing enough without getting into the murky depths of linguistics hair-splitting. Just teach the ow and aw and ew combinations and explain that these are vowel sounds where w plays a second role, and that is plenty.

Hi victoria,

I’m sort of half-up-to-speed on the linguistics….haven’t formally studied it, but have paid attention to the discussions I’ve encountered.

I understand what you’re saying about the “semi-vowel” but I’ve never that before, so thanks. I am familiar with what you’re saying about w=/oo/ and y=/ee/ but I hate to see curricula that break /ow/ into two sounds as I think it’s unnecessary, confusing, and probably not actually linguistically correct. Some vowel sounds are just dipthongs, aren’t they? (oi, ow, ue??)

I actually do teach kids that a leading “y” makes the /ee/ sound (pronounced quite quickly) for the simple reason that most kids say “yuh” for the consonant sound of “y” and that really gets in the way of blending some words beginning with “y”

As you know, I like these discussions. I truly never intended to sound insulting, just wanted to discuss….sorry again if I was over the line….Rod

Further linguistiucally speaking, that is exactly what a diphthong is — a quick slide from one vowel sound to another.

oy is a quick slide from oh to ee
In standard American English, ay and ie are also diphthongs, ay being a quick slide from eh to ee, and ie being a quick slide from ah to ee (ah as in father, water)
ow in cow is a quick slide from ah to oo
If you have a Scottish or Scottish-Canadian background, you also distinguish a different diphthong, ou in house being a quick slide from eh to oo

Try these in your mouth and see how they work — it’s fun.

If you are teaching a second-language learner, like my Chinese students, it is important to know these and teach them. It would also be a help working with a hearing-disabled student or one with a speech problem.

For the average reading learner, it is NOT a good idea to teach all this detail — the kid has only to form the sounds in his mouth and relate the sound to the appropriate visual symbol. If the child speaks English as a native or near-native speaker, he can already form and distinguish all these sounds and it is a very bad idea to add a layer of confusion teaching linguistics at the same time. Everything in its own season.