Neurology Evaluation??

Brenda,

You do not have to apologize for asking questions….that’s what the boards are for!

Why does he have an appointment with a neurologist? Usually, if you want a thorough evaluation, you might go to a neuropsychologist. Right off hand, I’m not sure how a neurologist would be able to help significantly in regard to your current educational problem.

Janis

janis,

His appointment has nothing to do with his educational situation…….he just happens to have an appointment with his neurologist on the day before his scheduled IEP meeting. he goes twice a year for evaluation and blood levels…..(for seizure meds). She sees him and does a complete physical and goes over his latest test/blood level results. And in general gives her opinion about how she thinks he’s doing.

He has epilepsy, as I stated before. but his last EEG was clear of all seizure activity….asleep and awake. Which is wonderful!!

My question was, that since he has an appointment with her anyway, can I, or would it help, if she gave her opinion. ? I wasn’t sure if her opinion would count, and from your reply, I take it that it won’t. It was just a desperate thought, I guess. I’m just reaching for anything that might help let them know that he is able to learn. I don’t know Janis I just thought that maybe I could gain some ground with a medical opinion.

As for a neuropsychologist…..???? : (

Brenda.

Brenda,

The only use a neurologist would be in your case would be if the epilepsy was interfering with school and you needed a doctor note to get the child placed on a 504 plan or Other Health Impaired IEP. But since your son is already on an IEP, I don’t see how this would be useful. The school has not taught your son to read, and that is the bottom line. All you need to tell them at that meeting is just that, and that you plan to have an advocate help you get the school system to pay for private school since they have not done their job. It would be very good if you can get an advocate to go with you to the meeting. They should know the laws and the many cases like your son’s. He is exactly in the situation that wins. Oh, and you should request the outside independent educational evaluation to start the ball rolling. Perhaps you can get one that recommends the services he needs.

Janis

Have the scores on Anthony’s latest evaluation been posted? I haven’t seen them and just had a thought that there are so many here who REALLY know reading problems and could help pinpoint your son’s difficulty. Wouldn’t it be better to attend an IEP with some specific information about his problem instead of demands for services that may or may not be helpful?

Which evaluation scores should I post? Are you talking about what’s on the IEP under present levels of functioning? (TONI-3, TAPS-R, VMI) and/or all the observations made by his teacher (basic reading, reading comprehension, written expression, math calculations…etc) These all have S.S. -% - A.E. remarks. I would be more than happy to post his scores if that would help at all. I would very much like to go to that IEP with some specific information, I would feel more empowered and less intimidated.

Brenda

Yea, I know. I wasn’t sure if his neurologist would be able to help in this situation. I’m just reaching for anything at this point.

May I suggest that you ask his neurologist to recomend someone to take him to for an educational eval. My guess is that many of his/her patients have associated learning problems and he can probably readily assist you there. From my own experience I would recomend you stay away from testing facilities that actually provide there own remediation program. They are in the business to make money and saying a child does not have a problem is not going to get them a long term client. I would also be careful of one’s the school sends you to because if they repeatedly disagree with the school they will loose out on referals. University hospitals might be a good option. Also your pediatritian probably has some names of testers he can give you for a full psychological work up.

Post SS of the TONI-3, TAPS-R, and VMI (which I won’t know about but maybe someone else will). Do you not have a recent Woodcock-Johnson or other standardized achievement test? Try to locate the original placement paperwork and find the IQ and achievement test scores. That is the only way for us to tell if he is LD with a fallen IQ or whether he is educably mentally disabled.

Janis

Standard scores are the preferable way to post. That way you can compare scores from one test to another. Percentile ranks cluster around the mean. So, a 55 percentile is closer to a 45 percentile than a 35 is to a 25. In other words, standard scores are evenly spaced, percentiles are about how students cluster across the continuun and are not in equal increments.

Has he even had the vineland test, if not, I doubt if he has been tested for adapted behavior, which would negate Mentally challenged diagnosis. I think that the Matthews Effect is probably involved.

I am posting the results of my son’s most recent tests. 01-14-03 and his 2002 scores.

TONI-3 = Quotient: 80 PR: 16 (**The IEP states the Quotient as being 80: On another confidential report, same date of test, etc … the Quotient is stated as being 85) I don’t know what that means, or if it’s significant)

VMI = SS: 90 PR: 25

TAPS-R = Auditory Perceptual Quotient: 76 PR: 6

Woodcock-Johnson III =

Oral Expression: SS: 83 PR: 13
Listening Comprehension: SS: 75 PR: 5
Basic Reading Skills: SS: 66 PR: 1
Reading Comprehension: SS: 57 PR: .2
Math Calculations Skills: SS:61 PR: .4
Math Reasoning: SS: 85 PR: 16
Written Expression: SS: 65 PR: 1

Summary: Intellectually, he demonstrated cognitive ability in the low average range.

Current academic achievement scores in oral expression and math reasoning are commensurate with his cognitive ability, scores in listening comprehension fell in the borderline range, scores in reading, math calculation and written expression fell inthe mildly delayed range.

At this time a significant dexcrepancy does exist between his cognitive ability and current academic achievement scores in math calculation. (What does that mean?)

Visual motor processing skills …..average range

Auditory processing skills ……borderline range. (what does borderline mean? Borderline to what?)

Scores for 2002:

TONI-3: Quotient: 78 PR: 7
VMI: SS:84 PR: 14
TAPS-R Auditory Perceptual Quotient: 72 PR: 3

Woodcock-Johnson - Revised (WJ-R)

Broad Reading SS: 53 PR: 0.1
Broad Math SS: 80 PR: 9
Broad Written Language SS: 74 PR: 4

SUMMARY: Intellectually, he demonstrated nonverbal cognitive ability in the slow learner range.

Current academic achievement scores in reading fell in the mildly delayed range, math scores fell in the low average range and scores in written language fell in the slow learner range.

At this time a significant descrepancy exists between Anthony’s nonverbal cognitive ability and scores in Broad Reading. (What does that mean?)

Auditory processing skills demonstrated in the slow learner range.
Visual motor processing skills demonstrated in the low average range.

Also, and I’m not sure this is relevant, however, I’m not sure I understand what the difference is between the KBIT and WISC-III tests, or if IQ composite for the KBIT and full scale for WISC-III is the same thing. But I’ll put it out there anyway……

1997/9-yrs old, KBIT test (Vocab SS: 66 - Matrices: SS: 70 - IQ Composite: 65

2000/12-yrs. old, WISC-III test (Verbal: 67, Performance: 60, Full Scale: 61)

Okay, that’s what I have….I’m sorry if there’s unnecessary information in there, I just wanted to put what I have…..maybe one of you can look at it and tell me what it means.

Thank you so much,
B.

Brenda, this is just what we needed! Shay will be the best to analyze these since she works with older kids. The non-veral IQ of 80 is below average, but NOT in the mentally retarded category. The WISC is heavier on language, so perhaps that is why he scored lower on that. He does qualify as LD in several subjects. “A significant discrepancy” just means he met the qualifications to be classified as LD in a particular area…the achievement score was a certain number of points below the IQ score. I know Shay has had success with improving reading skills in slow learners, so I know she will be of help!!!

Janis

I don’t believe he’s ever been given a vineland test. I don’t see that test mentioned in any of the paper work I have. (I could be wrong…I would have to ask) I don’t know if I understand completely what your post means. Are you saying that he should have been tested with a vineland test? Is this a test they would use to determine a Mentally challenged diagnosis?

and Mentally challenged you mean a diagnosis of MR, rather than LD? I’m sorry for sounding ignorant, but I truely don’t completely understand.

He’s never been labeled with MR. Early on it was developmentally delayed, and later on it was LD.

Thanks for your patience…

Brenda (btw Shay, did you get my email?)

Brenda,

Someone had looked at the 60 IQ and suggested MR instead of LD. Shay was just saying that he can’t be labelled MR unless a Vineland had been done. But his non-verbal IQ is 80 and that is not MR. So LD is correct according to the scores you just gave. Hoepfully Shay will respond to the score post as she has experience and knows what to do for that type of child.

Janis

Janis,

Thank you! I know that I posted before about his IQ being in the high 60s, and maybe I misread it, but I can’t even find in my paperwork where I read that. (I’ve been on a mad search)
I don’t know how to read these test scores, so I don’t know what it all means. There are so many different tests and related scores that it just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m beginning, I think, to understand a little better….but far from being able to put it into *parent friendly language* so to speak.

Hopefully with his scores posted……someone can either help me to understand the schools point of view or help me to understand his difficulties and point me in the right direction for helping him. : )

Brenda,

I am still of the opinion that the school has failed to teach your son. Shay is proof that it can be done. She remediates high school kids. But unless we can clone her ( and let me say seriously that I am not in favor of human cloning), most kids will not get remediation in high school. Shay can tell you what to do. I still think you need the advocate to get the school to pay for some kind of private services or school.

Janis

Okay Brenda, this is my look on things. Your son’s problems started on his lacking phonemic awareness for basic reading skills; he also has problems with comprehension, due to lack of decoding skills or not being able to visualize information both literature and basic math skills. Your son is very low for his age and will need a number of years of remediation but I think that it can be done starting with basic decoding skills. First, I recommend that you go buy Reading Reflex and read the first two chapters and then email me with your phone number and we can start. PS. I haven’t received your email yet.

Hi Shay and thank you SO MUCH!! :)

I will have the book by tomorrow afternoon (if I can find it at Barns and Noble)

I just sent you a reply to the email you sent me this evening.

Thank you again!

Brenda

This would tell what is going on with his language…