Would this be an inappropriate school request?

There are OTs on this BB that if you ask, will probably give you as good or better advice. My daughter’s private OT used Handwriting without Tears. I’m not a professional, but copying from the board is one of my daughter’s biggest problems. As far as the “appropriateness” of asking school personnel, I honestly don’t know.

I’d first wonder why your son does not qualify for services when he has dysgraphia? I’d question that and it might be that you accepted the school at its word there a bit too quickly.

In any case, there should never be any reason why a caring parent may not call any teacher at their child’s school. The OT can keep the conversation general if that makes her comfortable. Ask her for ‘general’ suggestions as to how to help a child develop their fine motor skills and improve their handwriting.

My first concern for your son is that he would become frustrated when he is asked to copy things from the board. Does he have a gripper on his pencil? That can help and at any Staples you can explore thicker barreled pencils that can also help some dysgraphic children.

You might also get hold of a book called Educational Care by Dr. Mel Levine and see what he suggests as good remediations/accomodations for dysgraphia.

My own son has severe dysgraphia and I allowed him to dictate his assignments to me. It saved much time and many tears and over the years his dysgraphia has slowly shown improvement.

Good luck to you and your son.

Has he had an OT eval? If not, you have the right to request one, given his issues. OT is not “automatically” included in the evaluations at our school, but if a parent specifically requested it they’d do it. If he’s had it and still doesn’t qualify, I’d call the OT directly and ask for suggestions/ideas like you said. Who knows, she may take a look at him and realize he needs services!

There can be no harm in calling. I don’t know about your school, but at ours staff members are always willing to talk if they think a child will be helped. The OT may suggest special “putty” for hand strengthening, for example.

You can do Handwriting Without Tears at home. Website is http://www.hwtears.com.

Take a look at Callirobics (http://www.callirobics.com) also. These are very short, pleasant exercises that develop fine motor coordination for writing.

Audiblox (http://www.audiblox2000.com) has a dysgraphia program you may want to check out.

Difficulty copying from the board sometimes involves developmental vision problems, so you may also want to get a developmental vision evaluation. (See http://www.childrensvision.com)

Italic cursive (Getty-DuBay is popular) often works better for a dysgraphic child than even HWT. One way to approach it is to provide copywork interesting to the child, using software such as StartWrite (http://www.startwrite.com).

Nancy

They initially did not qualify my son for OT even after the OT eval that I requested. I had a long talk with the OT and she agreed he needed her help after that conversation.

I explained that he did not space words properly and that he would start in the middle of the page. He didn’t have fine motor issues because I had remediated those by this time.

I think OTs like to work with kids who have involved parents. They are more likely to be successful and they want to see the kids they work with succeed.

Just stay on the issue. Write a note explaining why you think an OT eval is needed and then follow-up with the OT by phone.

good luck. There are usually a few spelling words that come home to my house at the beginning of each week that are so badly misspelled and the handwriting so bad they are unreadable. (4th) I have written to the teacher repeatedly to no avail. He can’t tell me what the words are after the fact because he doesn’t know. Each kid has his own list. One week we practiced a word all week and he spelled it correctly, only to have it marked wrong because the teacher couldn’t read the handwriting on one of the sheets and thought he had assigned a different word. Now if I can’t read something I just make something up.

Hi Sara,
My son hasn’t been formally diagnosed with dysgraphia. He hasn’t been seen by an OT since he was about three years old. When he was about a year old he was diagnosed with SID, motor planning difficulties, propreoceptive difficulties, tactile defensiveness, etc… He was covered by a governmental agency and received OT services up until the age of three. I then had him tested by the school district for developmental preschool and they felt he no longer needed services.

We believed he had “caught up” and were all very pleased. It’s only been in the last few of years that I’ve come to realize he still has some problems which I believe may be related to SID (or seperate issues).

Last year he was at a different school. He was fortunate enough to have the same teacher for 1st and 2nd grade. She would tell me that she knew “something was going on with him,” but she was never sure what it was even though she had a background in special ed and reading. Because she realized he was having great difficulty with the physical act of writing (and reversals!), she had aides and volunteers take him out of the class to work on writing once a week. He was the only kid in the class they did this with!

Anyhow, I’ll try to get a hold of that book! Would a gripper help with writing fatigue? My son seems to get physically tired very quickly from writing. He’s very good about doing it, never complains and just plods along, but I know it’s really exhausting for him and I wish there were a way to make it even a little easier.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I did ask for an OT evaluation, but was told he needed a 504 in order to get one. My son has an IEP, but didn’t qualify for a 504.

I’ll see if I can talk with the OT directly. Unfortunately she’s hired in by an outside agency so it might be difficult to get a hold of her. I suppose I could always call the agency directly.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Linda,
Thanks for the encouragement!

Leah,
I think you’re right, the people here are the most knowlegable.

Thanks Nancy for so many great ideas! I have Audiblox, but not the dygraphia program. I think I’ll order it.

The hand putty sounds like a good idea. I was also thinking maybe something like tweasers (or that has a pincher on the end) and having him pick up something small up and moving it from one place or container to another.

He also likes mazes! I should get him a book of mazes for when he’s bored (as if he has time to be bored!).

One more thing, he plays piano. I would think this would help? But maybe not.

I can definitely relate! We’ve had the same experience. I’ve had to call parents to go over the spelling words. In addition, my son has done things like write a different word (a few letters off or reversed).

Won’t the teacher ask orally if he/she can’t read the word?

They are giving you a load or #$%. Put it in writing that you want an eval. and list the symptoms that cause you concern.

Rover is write they are BSing you. IDEA requires that they test in all areas of suspected disability. Put your request for evaluation in writing today!

Helen

Oh dear I wrote write instead of right!

Go to the LD In Depth section and and read the article listed below in the Writing section.

The 90 Minute Dysgraphia Evaluation, by Steven G. Feifer, Ed.S, NCSP Philip A. Defina, Ph.D., ABPdN. November 2002.

Helen

I have a campaign against yellow pencils, which are horribly fatiguing. You have to press down hard (and much harder proportionally for a child’s small hand) at the same time as you are trying to make fine muscle moves; of course it is terrible difficult and leads to screaming muscles. Get a writing tool that flows smoothly with no pressure at all. I start kids off with a marker on white board to train smooth flow; if the marker squeaks or the tip gets damaged, you have developed the habit of high pressure, and you need to learn to back off. Then when you return to paper, use ultra-fine-point markers, rolling writers, or fountain pens - anything with liquid ink that leaves a mark with a bare touch to the paper, zero pressure. Then starting with the white board and moving later to the paper, re-teach writing as a smooth flow with the hand moving (support very lightly on knuckle of little finger) NOT a painful and awkward wrist twist. This retraining of habits takes months, so be patient and chip at it a little every day.
As far as using pens at school, tell them an educational consultant recommended this for your son’s writing problems. (me, and I have all kinds of degrees if anyone needs impressing)
And remind yourself and the school that there is NO eleventh commandment, no, not even in math; look it up yourself, NOwhere is it written “Thou must use pencil for all school and all numbers”. Doesn’t exist, honest. I keep stressing this becuase many people believe the pencil in math thing more strongly than they believe in religion, but honestly, that was just your kindergarten teacher, not the deity. Yes, you can use pen in math; if you make a mistake, just put a line through it. Easy, simple, fast, and you get a heck of a lot more writing and math done if you turn it into a writing or math class and not an erasing class.

Well, you see, in piano lessons, the teacher actually *teaches* him how to do it right. She has him hold his hands up off the keyboard so he can move them freely, touch the keys with a light touch using each finger separately, and so on.

In school, on the other hand, the conventional stupidity (one cannot say wisdom) is to have each and every student re-invent the wheel; it is considered horrible and cruel and viciously authoritarian to actually teach a child to write. You just hand the kid the worst possible tools, first wax crayons in K (ever met even an adult who can write decently with a wax crayon? On cheap newsprint?) then yellow pencils that take far much more pressure than a child’s small hands can manage. Then you have him look at the letters as visual shapes but you never, ever explain the methods used to form these shapes; you just let the kid figure out whatever. If he does it backwards and upside down, that’s creative; never mind all the directionality issues with both writing and reading (the b-d-p-q confusion that doesn’t need to happen in most cases, among other things). If possible you make the situation even worse by presenting the capitals first, even though more than 95% of standard writing is lower case. Then in Grade 2 you start to teach cursive and blame the victim and his family if the kid just can’t get the order or directionality.

Above I postesd some suggestions for improving writing. I use these all the time, am using them with three students right now, and ever so slowly they are coming around.

My son loves to sew. He doesn’t do a great job but I have him sew things I would have thrown out anyway; that turtleneck with the rip in the arm, the socks with a hole. He likes to contribute and he thinks this is just so much fun.

I think this developed his fine motor issues better than anything else.

That explains why my son is constantly breaking his pencil tips!
He even got in trouble and was humilated by a substitute teacher for sharpening his pencil — I’m assuming too much. My son never understood or could explain why this substitute teacher was angry with him. Apparently she picks on the other LD students in the class too. I guess she assumes they are doing certain things on purpose.

I’ll see what I can do about the markers. If the teacher refuses to comply, would a pencil with a good handgrip help? At home I can definitely work with markets and using a low pressure pen.

Well, that’s odd. I need to become more educated about the legal side of this. I mentioned dysgraphia originally (particularly since he has a history of SID and does currently have some tactile defensiveness). I believe I even wrote in my original request that I wanted him evaluated by an OT. But he wasn’t evaluated by one. I even hired an educational psychologist to accompany me at the IEP and she told me he wouldn’t qualify for OT (even though he had no OT testing).

I’m going to talk with the OT directly. I’m also going to bring writing samples as well. And maybe I’ll INSIST upon my son using a low pressure pen as Victoria recommended.

One other area of frustration I’ve had with this school, is when I spoke with the Vice Principal about my son’s word retrieval difficulties and how he was having an extremely difficult time memorizing the names of the kids in class, she laughed and said she has the same problem. As if age related memory loss can be compared to an 8-year-old! I can’t tell you how angry that made me. She’s not 8 years old being told to write about what she ate for breakfast and staring at a blank page because she can’t remember the word oatmeal!!!! Sorry about ranting so much! Most people just don’t understand how frustrating this is. I’m extremely thankful for all the people here sharing information and support.

it comes in different strengths. The OT would help you decide which one to order (perhaps starting with the easiest strength or a medium strength and working up). We used to hide little dinosaurs in it, and the child would have to pull and stretch the putty to free all of the dinosaurs. One nice thing about therapeutic putty is that it’s pretty clean to use, compared to clay. However, working with clay is another activity that is often recommended.

I have also seen your tweezer idea recommended, and playing with lego’s.

Don’t know if piano would help with dysgraphia, but piano does help develop interaction between the right and left hemispheres of the brain — which is very valuable in its own right.

Nancy

If you already qualify for an IEP, you don’t need to re-qualify for a 504 - but you would need to get the IEP UPDATED to include accomodations that would have otherwise been in a 504.

An IEP is a really a super-set of a 504. An IEP includes both services and accomodations. You typically get a 504 when you don’t qualify for services, but you still need the accomodations.

Now, I’m not an expert, but that is what I have learned over the last several years - this for some reason is a very confusing topic. I found out recently that most of the teachers in my school think a 504 is more powerful than an IEP. They don’t even really look at an IEP, but if the kid has a 504 - well they stand up and take notice. When in reality, a 504 really has less accountability. If a teacher refuses to follow an IEP - they can be individually sued, outside of the school - not so with a 504.

ReedMartin and Wrightslaw have some good articles on 504 vs. IEP.

pencil and pen. They are thicker and better than anything else my daughter has used. She says a plain yellow pencil is THE most uncomfortable. She has fine motor problems along with LDs.

When a pencil was absolutely necessary, as for multiple-choice tests which will not score without anything else, I always provided my daughter with a mechanical pencil. And don’t forget always a spare package of leeads and/or spare pencil! She and I both dislike thick rubber grips but you can try and find what suits. I suspect the thick grips assist with the hard pressure, which of course I try to avoid.
There are even some disposable mechanical pencils that are yellow and will fool the extreme kind of teacher who can’t bear anything different.
On those tests, they always tell you to use a “number 2 pencil”. This is the same as HB leads and there is NO rule that requires you not to use a mechanical pencil; prepare your child and tell them to stick to their guns.

If he can’t remember oatmeal, tell him to get creative and make up a breakfast he would like. The teacher wasn’t there so who cares? Suggest coping strategies of finding another way to say things.

Victoria,
I did! I told him that if he can’t remember a word, just try to think of something similar or make something up. Have fun with these assignments. Think of the most horrible breakfast you can imagine and write about that! Sometimes he can be really clever and funny. But it did bother me that he couldn’t figure out an alternative way to approach the assignment. I realize he was being literal and just trying to do exactly what was asked, but it’s also important that he learn to come up with alternative approaches when necessary.

DEA,
I found a book about IEP’s in the library (as well as a few of Mel Levine’s books!). I’ll take a look at them. But I’ve been wondering about this. Since I already asked for an OT assessment in a letter written to the school, and they didn’t do one, what would that mean? Unfortunately I couldn’t find a copy of my original letter in my home office, but I was thinking of going to the school and asking if I could get a copy of it.

Laura, Socks and others know more about the legal aspects than I. You might get more information if you post a new message on the Parenting LD BB. I would write a letter stating that in your letter of (date) you requested OT eval. and to your knowledge it has not been done. Go on to state the reasons why you are requesting and give a date (within 2 weeks) by which you expect to hear from them. If they refuse to eval. they must tell you in writing that they won’t do it. You can then go through due process if you want to. More than likely they will realize that you know what you are talking about and do the eval. because it will cost them less in the long run.

mention in the letter that it is your second request.

I bet they will do it.

A little persistance can go a long way. Stay professional but don’t back down.

There is a disability; face blindness (it has a technical name). could your son have this, Laura?

http://www.prosopagnosia.com/
www.choisser.com/faceblind/

Helen

My son has the same trouble with names and I don’t think it is visual but rather a memory issue. I have some difficulty with names as well (always have so not middle age). I have to really focus and pay attention to learn names and I don’t think my son does.

Beth

Hi Helen,
There’s a possiblity he has it mildly. But I think he may be getting better as he gets older. It’s almost like he’s two years younger than his chronilogial age.

I think if he does have this problem it will become more apparent as he gets older.

I know he has difficulty describing people’s appearance and memorizing names. My husband’s aunt one time was very surprised when he didn’t visually remember a cousin of his who he went on a vacation with before and who he had seen at many holidays. My mother-in-law was also very surpised that he had difficulty recognizing and remembering the names of his aunts. Although he doesn’t see them daily, he sees them at least 6-12 times a year. I think this year (now that he’s 8) he has become a little better at remembering them.

Good to know about that. For some reason the thicker grip of the PhD suits her best. And the HB means #2. I’ll have to remember that. Thanks!

…

I’m not so sure about the ‘visual’ aspect - I think she does recognize people(but I will have to pay more attention to that). But boy- remembering names is horrible. She still has a hard time remembering the names of the girls in her brownie troop and she has been with these girls for 2.5 yrs now!! Cousins, aunts, uncles - same kind of problem.

And it’s not just names of people - it’s names of really anything concrete. However, she does kind of know the meaning of what word she is searching her memory for. Like the firetruck is a watertruck, the drive-thru is the run-thru etc. It’s getting better and the memory trick of ‘linking’ does work for her. Linking may be the only way she will be able to remember answers to tests? (like bone parts, states, capitals etc.) Have’t had to take these kind of tests yet - but am freaked out about how she will ever pass.

It is getting better and I too see that she seems like she is 2 yrs behind other kids in certain areas. It makes it very difficult for her to describe an event also(how will she do on an essay test?). The school has poo-pooed it and they just don’t understand.

///

I used to have a total blank on faces, literally. I am fairly good at art and could always draw body forms, but never faces. I could not recognize even my own teachers and classmates. Movies and TV were terribly confusing because I had no idea who those talking heads were — I recognized people in real life entirely from body form, gestures, voice, etc. As time went on in my thirties this slowly improved and I can actually recognize many people from faces now. Work on this *gently* and slowly. TV can actually be useful, learning favourite actors, etc.

Victoria,
That’s very interesting. I’m the opposite, I remember faces everywhere. My aunt was an artist and my mother had a great interest and talent with art. I grew up drawing and my favorite type was portraiture. I wonder if learning to draw faces would help with developing facial memorization? It forces one to look and take note of facial features.

Names are another matter altogether! I usually have to repeat them over and over in my mind and also, if possible connect the name to something visual.

DEA,
I think both our children may have word retrieval issues. I’m annoyed and angry that some schools don’t recognize this as a problem. Even when it’s minor, it can have a big effect on academic output. I just read “The Myth of Laziness” by Mel Levine and one chapter in it went over expressive language problems and some general strategies for helping this.

The book also had a very good chapter on writing difficulties. The difference between fine motor and graphomotor skills, and it breaks down the subskills necesssary for successful writing (and some suggestions on how to figure out what specific subskill is creating the difficulty and ways to help remediate each particular area).

The school wouldn’t give me her name and number (they gave me the name and number for someone in the district), but fortunately I got her name from another parent and know the name of the business they contract with so I called today and found out when she’ll be in the office. I’m going to try to talk with her today or sometime this week. I hope to meet with her and show her some writing samples.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Circular problem: I don’t visualize faces so I *can’t* draw them (actully, got better in my thirties, but before that it was an impossibility.) Asking me to draw a face is just hitting on the problem, like telling the dyslexic kid to just stand up and read. What did help, a bit, was studying art and looking at all the details; looking specifically at a mouth, not as part of a face, but as an individual object. And the opposite approach, drawing very very quickly without verbalizing or trying to image. The two came together and I am much better than previously. But just trying to draw doesn’t do it.