I have a question for the teachers in the group. My NLD son has a teacher this year who is a real task master. She taught at the high school level until switching to our school system. This is her second year teaching 5th grade. IMO, she is trying to teach these 5th graders as if they were high schoolers.
That would be bad enough for a NT child, but for an NLD child it is causing a huge amount of stress, not only for my son, but because of HIS stress level, for our entire family. He has a team of 3 teachers. A language arts teacher, this teacher, who teacher science, math and social studies, and a SPED teacher who is with him through all his academic time. (his service grid calls for 40 minutes of SPED time in the classroom twice daily)
We have met numerous times since the beginning of the year to try to deal with her unreasonable demands, both with the SPED coordinator and principal alone (who basically agreed with us said they’d straighten things out) and with the teachers as a group.
I have always tried to have a good relationship with the school and the teachers, and while I have learned to advocate strongly for my son, I always have tried to work with the teachers and support them. But this teacher is extremely negative in her comments. She also assigns unreasonable amounts of homework, and gets him in such a state at times that he has failed tests where I _know_ he knew the material. Other times, when he’s less stressed he’ll get a score in the 90’s on very similar material. She sees this and automatically assumes that he’s not studying when he bombs on a test.
She marks down heavily for neatness, spelling and incomplete sentences, on a child who has a known writing disability, and specific IEP goals in these areas. (the language arts teacher actually cuts him much more slack) Everyone at school knows that he works more slowly than other kids at any written work. Last year’s teachers said he completed about 70% of assigned classwork. But they also chose carefully, and made sure he finished the important things, and actually took unfinished work that was less important away from him so he wouldn’t stress over it. If he had problems with a written test, they would re-test him orally. He got good grades with proper accomodations and support.
As an example of the negative tone this teacher takes, this is a comment on a paper done at school and sent home the last day of school before Christmas break. “You had to answer one question. Why pass in a messy paper with an improper heading? Next time get a new piece and start over please.”
Last night they were sent home with the task of making a model of an atom out of string and whatever materials they could find to represent protons, etc. Of course this was sent home with no prior notice (first day back after Christmas) and was due this morning. With my son’s motor issues, this was an impossible task without lots of adult help. (as in me doing all the work with the string and glue, and him counting and placing the protons, etc in the right places) He knows how to draw an atom, but working with all those little pieces is very difficult for him. But he really wanted to do a nice job, and we spent an hour and a half on this on top of his other homework. He had been given an assessment rubric to follow, and he had carefully completed and checked off every step. He was very proud of his end product.
I sent a note to his SPED teacher in his communication log asking her to talk to the classroom teacher to explain that this really was his best effort, and not to mark down for neatness, etc. (there were a few places that he had erased and re-written words, with smudges left behind on the construction paper)
The teacher just couldn’t bring herself not to mark him down somewhere. He had all the information right, and had completed every step in the rubric. She still took a point off because he didn’t “darken the letters” of the labels on the diagram. This was NOT even suggested in the rubric. It said nothing about the size of the lettering or how it was to be done.
I have tried every way that I can think of to get this teacher to understand that positive reinforcement is much more effective with this child. (probably any child, but that’s not my problem at the moment!) He is under enough stress as it is. It is even written into his IEP that corrections are to be made in a non-punitive manner, and that he is to be prompted to make changes and given a chance to complete the changes.
I’m at my wits end. I don’t know what to do but go to the SPED coordinator yet again. She and the principal tell me this teacher is trying, but I don’t see it. If she is, she’s an awfully slow learner, and her learning is at the expense of my child.
If any of the teachers here can come up with a constructive way to solve this problem, I’d love to hear it. We still have 6 months of school to live through with this teacher.
Thanks!
Re: Advice from teachers
Each teacher has their style of teaching and this teacher’s is embedded after many years of teaching at a different level. The harsh reality is that it’s unlikely she’s going to be able to change much. Her practices are likely an expression of deeply held philosophies which don’t agree with yours or mine. As a teacher, I believe as you do that positive reinforcement works best with any child but not all teachers agree with us.
There is something wrong in our world and certainly in our schools that this teacher is allowed to teach your son when clearly it stresses him so. Your support of your son’s school and teachers is admirable but in the face of this challenge, I’d have to let my cover drop a bit and let my son know that the system has ‘glitches’ in it to say the least and that this teacher’s work with him is one of those glitches. I’d explain the difference between a high school teacher and an elementary school teacher and touch upon the unfairness of her expectations and that she sees things through a different experience. I’d tell him that when she grades his work she is comparing it in her mind to the work of high schoolers! As a consequence of that, I’d encourage him not to take her judgements so seriously but to judge his own efforts and to know within himself that his work was done fairly and well.
There are challenging times in all our lives when we need to maintain our self esteen against unfair judgements. In the ideal world, your son and mine wouldn’t have to do that until they are much older and stronger but sadly we don’t live in that world.
Re: Advice from teachers
Sorry, but I disagree with Sara’s idea. The reason there is laws for children with special needs is so our children won’t have to deal with these kinds of situations. I tried telling my son he could just do his best, with his problem teacher. He tried and failed, a child does not need this constant failure. There are laws to prevent this. Actually if it comes down to it……we can personnaly sue teachers who don’t abide by the IEP.
Sara is right, lifes not fair, but we all know that, but as parents and advocates for our children, it’s our responsibility to help them, and I will. I plan on trying to resolve my problem at a local level, but if things don’t change soon, I’m requesting a Due process hearing.
Don’t give in Karen, the system needs more parents like you and I. For insipiration, visit the Mothers from Hell website.
Re: Advice from teachers
The funny thing is that on the home front, that is exactly what I finally decided to do the night we made the atom model. I finally let my annoyance at the teacher show, as we tried to figure out, with no notice, what we had around the house that we could use for this project. I told him that I thought it was an unfair assignment, and that I would help him do the parts that were too hard for him.
We actually had some mild fun ragging on the teacher as we worked, and I think it helped him feel better about himself in the process. Then I told him that if he repeated what I said to the teacher, we were both gonna get in trouble. I told him that there are times in life that being right doesn’t necessarily solve the problem, and that this is a situation where any conversations about what we thought of this teacher’s practices should be saved for the privacy of home.
That said, I think Kathy has a point too. My son _does_ have an IEP, and the teacher is required, by law, to abide by it. I don’t think I’d bother with trying to sue a teacher over it, at least not this one. But I do feel that it is my responsibility to try to make the school enforce the terms of the IEP. After all, I was one of a group of about 10 people who wrote the IEP, and of those 10 people, 8 were school staff. These are, to a large extent, the measures that the _school_ felt were necessary for my son to access a free and appropriate public education.
I did warn the SPED coordinator at a meeting just before Christmas that I would rather work with them, but if that wouldn’t work, my son’s emotional well-being was the most important to me, and I would do anything I needed to in order to protect that. So if he DOES let it slip that I have told him that I don’t agree with the teacher’s practices, it shouldn’t be a total surprise to them.
If worst comes to worst, and I feel that his stress level is getting too high again, I’ll pull him out of that class and home school him in those subjects. He is doing well with the other teacher, and enjoys his time in that class, so he could still be involved in school with the rest of his class for half of each day.
If at all possible, I’d like to find a way to protect my son and keep him in this class. But from everything I’ve read about the risk of depression and suicide among NLD teenagers, I feel that protecting him from undue stress has to be my number one priority. If I can do that and stay on good terms with this teacher, that would be the best of all worlds. If I have to do this in spite of the teacher, well, that’s what I’ll have to do.
Karen
Re: Advice from teachers
Hi Kathy,
As you will read in my reply to Sara, I agree with you that the teacher “should” be expected to comply with my son’s IEP. I’m just not sure how that compliance can be enforced, if the teacher is really set against it. I understand that legally she is in the wrong, but that doesn’t necessarily help my son. If we WERE to sue her, any legal procedings would take longer than the rest of this school year, so I’m not sure that would be productive. I would much rather see that the school system try to educate her so that she learns to be a better teacher.
As far as the Mothers from Hell site is concerned, I took a look at it. While I feel for EVERYONE who has to work with uncooperative school staff to meet the needs of their children, I found the site to be a little over the top for my tastes.
Karen
Re: Advice from teachers
Karen, I think you’re to be commended with giving this teacher so many chances but I do agree with Sara that this is one rock that’s not going to budge! And you know what? Maybe you can think of it as this teacher’s own personal LD - she’s rigid and inflexible. Hmmm, does that sound like any LD kids we’ve ever run into?
My son met up with one teacher like that. And he was supposed to have her for three years in a row!We did everything we could to help her understand him but the truth was that she wasn’t about to try. He lasted two years with her before I pulled him out and transferred to a private school. I regret those two years more than I can tell you. He was a wreck the entire time. I taught in that school during that time and it really strained my relationship with this teacher. I tried very hard to educate her but she simply didn’t believe in the idea of different learning styles. And I truly think her own learning difference compelled her to be so inflexible of thought. The principal was involved too and wasn’t able to help her make that leap. She said she was trying but it seemed to be just too big a jump in thinking for her to make.
And I think that, unfortunately, our school systems are riddled with teachers like this. They have a lot going for them as teachers in many ways because they have very strong organizational skills and an equally strong, but misguided, sense of justice. They like things to progress in a neat, orderly fashion and look at the world of their classroom as they would look at a check list. Do this, do this, do this, nice and neat, check it all off. What they don’t recognize is that learning can be messy. I don’t think your son’s teacher can see the forest from the trees. Doesn’t seem to me that she’s able to get the “main idea”, wasn’t able to ask herself the question, “What’s the important thing I’m trying to teach when I give this assignment?” Looks like she’s bogged down in details. Hmmm, once again, we’re back to her having a kind of LD.
It helped my son when I finally told him that I thought it was this teacher’s own learning style that was interfering with how she dealt with his. I didn’t use the term LD regarding her, of course, even though it’s what I though. But I was able to explain that she got mixed up over what was the most important thing. Even though he was angry all the time in her class, it did allow him to realize that people who make us angry also often deserve our sympathy, esp. when they can’t help it.
I know none of this helps you get your child’s teacher to change. If I could do it all over again, I’d switch teachers right away. Is that a possibility for you? Is there another teacher he could switch to?
Re: Advice from teachers
Someone else recently posted (perhaps not on this site, but I think it was) a great suggestion for dealing with teachers who do not follow IEPs. Ask immediately for an IEP meeting, point out the various requirements of your son’s IEP that are not being met and ask for a committment that they will be met. Make sure you point out your prior conversations with the principal and other teachers in which all agreed that this teacher was not following the IEP. Then ( this is the good part) make a point of asking the principal (who you should insist be at the meeting) what he or she does to discipline teachers who do not comply with IEPs. I expect that would knock some sense into her.
Andrea (who is happy her son’s teachers follow his IEP and work with her as a team).
Re: Advice from teachers
The frustrating thing is that they asked us in November whether we wanted to change him to another class. We seriously considered it, but he loves his language arts teacher, and he has a good SPED teacher. We would lose the whole team if we switched. Also, as is typical for NLD kids, he does not transition well, and the idea of having him start again with a new team, and no guarantee that ALL of the teachers on the new team would be an improvement worried us. The principal and the SPED coordinator assured us that this teacher was really trying, and that they were working closely with her to straighten things out. So we decided to leave him there.
But I spcifically said during that meeting that I didn’t want to be back again in a month with the exact same problems. Things were much better for about 3 weeks, and here we are in the beginning of January with the exact same problems. But now we’re even further into the year, and I don’t even know whether they’d be willing to switch him at this point.
Karen
Re: Advice from teachers
Karen, first of all, I would strongly recommend that you save any papers where this teacher makes either negative comments or counts off for spelling/neatness or anything that goes against his IEP. I would either request another team meeting or write a certified letter to the principal and special ed. director that you have evidence that the IEP is still not being followed by this one teacher and that if it is not followed immediately, you will have your lawyer contact them regarding a hearing. Legal action is what school districts fear most. Don’t even think about suing the individual teacher. If the school system knows a parent is knowledgable about their legal rights, it is in THEIR best interest (not to mention your child!) to force this teacher to abide by the IEP. Yes, a lawsuit would take too much time and money. But, the threat will usually do what you need. I think that is inexcusable what that teacher is doing. And believe me, I am a person who very strongly believes in keeping a good relationship with the school if at all possible. I give my child’s school a lot of slack in some areas to get what I want in other areas. But there are limits. And you are very correct to guard your child’s mental health. If you want to keep peace with the school for future years, then do what you said, pull him out and homeschool just her subjects. That would make a point, too.
Janis
Re: Advice from teachers
And this is why I got on here this morning. I have been a special ed teacher for 13 years, and continue to see our children treated this way. I would love to open a school for LD kids, but do not know where to start. I signed in to ask if anyone has any suggestions, and just happened to read this.
I feel for you and your child…good luck and keep helping him to keep his spirits up in the face of this bad situation.
So……..does anyone know where to start in creating a school for our darlins?
Re: Does your state allow for public charter schools?
Oh, yes! Of course it does, and that does sound like a great place to start…umm…so, I should contact the sboe, right? (as you can see, I’ve got a LONG way to go here…hehehe)
Re: Advice from teachers
Hello, I can relate to your experience. Two years of that same kind of dealings with public school teachers I took my son out and now home school. One on one is working out a lot better. Our family has taken a cut in our income as now I stay home full time but it is worth it to me. Good luck.
I would do that, and also
do extensive networking to find like-minded professionals and interested families. You need a team that works well together, financing, etc.
Mary
Re: Advice from teachers
I would pick one thing to work on (while looking for better options!) — like, headings on papers, and making sure that is neat, or any single step in the neatness direction. And, I think *I* would give a grade on content — basically recalculate the grade without the ‘points off for not being as anal as I am’ factor.
Re: Advice from teachers
I save copies of EVERYTHING, and document all of the difficulties with letters. I have a call in to our advocate to try to decide what to do next, but I was hoping against hope that some of the teachers here would have some insight into how to teach this TEACHER to be more effective with kids like this. She drives me nuts at times, (often) but I think she’s actually closer to my son’s age than mine, and I keep thinking that this is a chance for her to learn and become a better teacher too.
Karen
Re: Advice from teachers
If I could convince myself that I could do that job without crossing swords with him continuously, I’d do it in a heartbeat. But I still feel that I have to first and foremost be his emotional support system, and I don’t know if I can wear both hats at the same time.
Karen
Re: I would do that, and also
Here’s my two cents (from just another mom)…
A teacher like that will not change. You can invest your efforts at trying to change her personality, but I think ultimately you will get nowhere. My son had a 5th grade teacher that was that negative and all my efforts to stop it failed. She was just a complete case of teacher burn-out.
I would seriously think about taking the option to switch him over to the other education team you mentioned. Could it possibly be that much worse? Ask parents about those teachers and find out. Ask the principal direct questions about whether the team would be a better fit. It sounds like the principal is in your court.
Where he is at now there is no potential end to the stress for the rest of the school year. If he transitions, he will experience stress. But hopefully temporary. If you decide to make the switch, maybe you could tell him he can have x number (two? not in a row?) of secret mental health days which he can take if things start to get too stressful. (If you work, make sure he knows you he has to work the “when” out with you).
If they are not in there already, try to get very clear directions about reduced workload written into the IEP. Then just take them. Get it written into the IEP that he can only be graded on content and not on neatness or technique (ours also says spelling, grammar, punctuation, and capitalization due to our child’s LDs).
Your son probably wouldn’t like this… but you could try stapling a copy of his IEP to every homework assignment he turns in. That ought to wake her up.
And finally… have an open discussion with your son about making a decision to not focus on grades this year. Don’t focus you attention on the points off. Don’t waste your energy trying to fight to get them back. Do the grades from 5th really matter over the course of time? No! Focus instead on finding a way to make learning (ie, homework time) a positive experience that the two of you work on as a team. You can contribute some aspect of the work, while he contributes another aspect that he’s good at. If you can type the assignment, she’ll never know. Be sure he knows your goal is “positive learning experience” and not getting around the teacher’s rules and expectations. If you can come of of the school year saying my son enjoys learning, you have succeeded!
I think you are doing a great job on the positive learning experience already. Hang in there! I hope you find a way to improve the situation soon.
I agree with the person who save all the stuff she does in writing also. Give copies of it all the principal. He/she probably can’t due much with it now, but they may be able to use if they have an employee review or are having to make staffing decisions for next year. Maybe your documentation might spare some other child this misery.
Re: Advice from teachers
The trouble is that his work is not that messy to start with, particularly if he is not pushed to rush. He cannot work fast, AND accurately AND neatly. It’s when he is pressured that the quality of the work goes down. And other than convincing them to back off, I don’t see a way around that.
Karen
Re: I would do that, and also
The trouble is that I don’t even know if sthe option of switching classes is even still on the table. We are further along in the school year now, and I suspect they would be more reluctant to allow a change now.
Karen
Re: I would do that, and also
Please come to Pa. Could you be cloned?
I would check with your local State Representatives they should have resource information on different types of funding. If you can get their support they probably have connections that may be able to help you.
Gotcha!
I have the picture now :(
I’d pick *my* priorities and personally I’d regrade everything to those standards (put back any “neatness” points) and post *those* grades on the refrigerator, and have a mutual understanding that this is a year to learn in *spite* of the teacher — that therein lies the challenge.
Re: Gotcha!
I don’t think the grades themselves are bothering him. It’s that I perceive this as the tip of the iceberg. If she’s this judgemental in her marking, I can just guess what kind of pressure she puts on him all day long.
Karen
Re: Okay... but those other ideas are good...
The funny thing is that our school has gone to a gradeless report card this year. It’s going to be interesting to see how she manages to go from her heavy-handed grading system for classwork and tests to actually evaluating what each child knows in the detailed assessment of “learning standards” that they have in place now. Seems like a bass akward way of doing it to give “grades” in ungraded classrooms and then try to explain what you mean by those grades.
Karen
Re: I would do that, and also
On the subject of switching the class, my son’s school changed his placement the week before Christmas vacation in 2000. I was part of the decision, but it was kind of awkward for him at first(he is a shy kid). My point being if the school feels it is necessary, they will change placement whenever. So it might not be too late.
My son had a screamer for 3rd gr. we tried to change him out but were 4th in line so we were unsuccessful. I talked to him a lot about why she might be like she was, that it wasn’t aimed personally at him(it wasn’t), and that it was only temporary, he would make it through and the next year would be better(it was). The teacher in question apparently had some health problem that she had surgery for and was much better afterwards. My son and I discussed that maybe she was in pain, that made her unpleasant to be around. Personally, if a teacher is having that much trouble, she ought to take off til things are better, instead of inflicting their pain on defenseless kids. Good luck with the teacher, I wish you the best.
That *is* interesting...
… and now, can I make an observation and what I hope will be a gentle suggestion? Lots of your responses hone right in on the negative — the reasons why something is a problem or can’t work. If that’s your worst fears coming out here, in a safe place — great. This is the place for it. You might want to make sure that with the kiddo (and with yourself, for that matter) you spend the majority of your time working and thinking positively, though I know it’s tough to quell the negative when it’s right in front of you.
If it’s a gradeless report card it *will* be interesting to see what this lady’s observations are, since there just seems to be a pretty major philosophical clash between her philosophy and what’s generally behind a “gradeless” report card.
Re: That *is* interesting...
I appreciate the good intentions of your message, but I have a hard time seeing much positive about this situation. If there is something, I’d love to have you point it out. In general, I’m a pretty positive, up-beat person… fortunately, so is my son.
I was hoping that there was something that I’d missed that might help this teacher learn how to help a child like mine rather than grind him into the ground. That’s why I posted here rather than on the parent’s list… I was hoping that teachers themselves might have more insight into this issue. I’ve been sorry to see that no one really had a good answer from that perspective. The answers have ranged from, “give him extra pats on the back and he’ll survive” to pulling him out and home schooling, to getting him switched to another class.
You are wrong if you think I haven’t been carefully reading and weighing the responses of all the kind people who have answered. Simply trying to talk myself and my son into believing that this teacher’s opinion doesn’t matter is not, at least for us, a reasonable “solution”. And thinking positively in and of itself will do nothing to solve the problem either.
Maybe it is not obvious, but I haven’t just been sitting here in between responses on this board hoping that things will improve. There have been letters to school, calls to school, and today a call to our advocate, who agrees with the several people here who have posted that the best solution at this point is to get him out of this classroom. So that’s what we’re working toward.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Karen
I agree with Karen
There is nothing positive to be found from a teacher treating any child this way. Extra pats on the back only go so far. And,another thing, with my son, his “problem teacher”, is keeping him from playing sports. All the pats on the back in the world, can’t replace the sense of accomplishment he feels when he pitches a no-hitter. He needs sports for his self esteem.
Also, like I have said before……that’s why there are rules to follow for children with disabilities, so they won’t have to endure this kind of treatment. Actually, no child should have to endure this, the administration needs to instruct the teachers on the proper teaching methods for each grade level. If this offends someone, I’m sorry, but do you know of any other job where you are just allowed to go about your business how ever you feel best? I sure couldn’t get by with it at my job, if I treated patients the way some teachers treat children, I”d be looking for a new job.
I feel for you as I am dealing with the same situation. If you find any answers let me know. I also know how you feel about having to deal with this teacher for 6 more months, but guess what, I have to deal with “our” teacher, next year too. Give me strength