Inclusion or resource?

: KIDS need to be in real classes, not resource or study skills—is too hard to deliver much to them ‘cept remedial stuff—stuff they hate or are used to. Put them in the mainstream and let them take off. They will. It is a crime, I think, to put any that are near grade level in self-contained rooms. Why give them the 3rd grade over and over for 12 years. When they get to high school, we toss them into reg ed classes which is where they belong. they struggle, but they learn to try and to work at their level—many will, some the lazy ones who never sweated over much all the years they were parked in sp ed classrooms won’t. They will leave skool lazy and be lazy workers—looking for that easy way. NO. LIFE IS HARD. GET USED TO IT. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR NOT DOING HARD WORK. We get them in HS and they can’t manage their books, papers, etc. they want to leave them in the sp ed rooms all day which is what they are used to doing. Funny how all of them have “broken lockers”—as they say. CLASSIC LD CAN’T OPERATE A COMBINATION LOCK. STUDIES PROVE THAT RESOURCE AIN’T THE TICKET. REG CLASSROOM EXPERIENCES AND INSTRUCTION IS. SO STOP KEEPING AMERICA’S KIDS cooking in those incubators like little chicks. Let them out in to the real world, the one they must live in. iF YOU THINK KEEPING THEM OUT OF INCLUSION ROOMS WILL IMPROVE THEIR POTENTIAL, YOU NEED TO RETHINK THAT. How could that be? YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE…

I read your posting, as well as that posted by jdavis. I am a contained spec. ed. teacher. My partner teacher and I have been looping for two years…. meaning we keep the kids in grades 5-6 for two years. We mainstream as appropriate. We have been considering a change based on the principles that you mentioned. We have have thought about “blending” the higher functioning LD students and co-teaching with one spec. ed. teacher on each team. We both fear losing the “progress potential” that we have been able to gain with our kids…… some have improved their reading comp. scores by 3-4 grade levels in just 2 years. Our rationale though, must be….. but we will then be able to touch more students (and teachers) with those strategies that allowed us to affect those scores to begin with. As far as organization, we can also show reg. ed. teachers how we have engaged in task analysis to help them internalize such strategies. (jdavis needs to know that all spec. ed. teachers do not allow students to ‘veg’, cook, or learn dependence……. GOOD teachers still follow their state standards, etc.)So, I believe your questions are good ones. We plan to maintain the needs of the lower LD students in a contained/mainstream setting next year and the higher LD students who truly have a shot at Regents (New York State) level work in high school will be blended with reg. ed. and we will coteach. Hope this helps.: I am a resource/content mastery teacher of 4th and 5th graders. I
: take the kids for pullout language arts and/or math, as determined
: by the ARD committee, as well as giving content mastery support in
: all subjects. (I do have a full-time aide)Anyway, this is my first
: year with this level kids. I taught primary age resource kids for
: 11 years before this. I’ve always been pretty dead-set against
: inclusion - seeing it as a way to push the kids through the
: system, without giving them the support they need to reach their
: potential. But I’m starting to rethink this, and would appreciate
: any input. Most of my children can read on at least a second-grade
: level, but have a lot of trouble with comprehension, organization,
: listening skills, etc. I’m starting to wonder if an inclusion
: setting, with me actually in the classroom with them part of the
: time, working directly with the classroom teachers, would be more
: beneficial to them. We have two resource teachers at our school,
: the other one working with the lower grades, so if there were a
: couple of mine who needed the direct instruction, perhaps they
: could go to her. Or I could tutor them directly before and after
: school. Input, please. Any thoughts - pro and con - are welcome!

Well, I haven’t checked this board for awhile. Glad I decided to tonight! I just have to say, I do not put my students in an incubator! I try to help them learn in the ways they’re able - both academics and real-world survival. I don’t think nurturing children, and teaching them to use the tools they have is a negative thing. Yes, life is hard…so we have to prepare our kids for it, not just let them sink or swim! My goal for all of my resource kids is to get them back into the mainstream, but not at the expense of their actually learning! They do not just disappear when they leave the classroom to come to resource - we do real work, and push them as far as they can go! With some of the things I’ve seen in the regular classrooms, it would be real easy to generalize and say that the classroom isn’t the place for ANY child, much less my LD kids! But I won’t make that generalization. Please don’t make it about special ed classrooms.

Where can I get information regarding propponents and opponents of inclusion???? I am taking a class and I need to write about this including my resources. HELP======Kathy

I was glad to find you asking the same question that I have been trying to anawer. I teach in a middle school where the kids have 2 placement choices- l.d. self contained or placement in regular ed where the teachers are unwilling for the most part to follow any specially designed instruction. Additionally, there are 4 l.d. teachers and 2 of them are against inclusion. BUT our new principal this year is promising support in the development of an inclusionary program of some sort. I have been researching and gathering info to initiate responsible inclusion. A key thing that I see happening or hope will happen is a reduction in the number of behavior problems that plague the l.d. student population in our school. I am eager for any info or documented experiences related to that aspect of the benefits of inclusion. thanks

: KIDS need to be in real classes, not resource or study skills—is too hard to deliver much to them ‘cept remedial stuff—stuff they hate or are used to. Put them in the mainstream and let them take off. They will. It is a crime, I think, to put any that are near grade level in self-contained rooms. Why give them the 3rd grade over and over for 12 years. When they get to high school, we toss them into reg ed classes which is where they belong. they struggle, but they learn to try and to work at their level—many will, some the lazy ones who never sweated over much all the years they were parked in sp ed classrooms won’t. They will leave skool lazy and be lazy workers—looking for that easy way. NO. LIFE IS HARD. GET USED TO IT. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR NOT DOING HARD WORK. We get them in HS and they can’t manage their books, papers, etc. they want to leave them in the sp ed rooms all day which is what they are used to doing. Funny how all of them have “broken lockers”—as they say. CLASSIC LD CAN’T OPERATE A COMBINATION LOCK. STUDIES PROVE THAT RESOURCE AIN’T THE TICKET. REG CLASSROOM EXPERIENCES AND INSTRUCTION IS. SO STOP KEEPING AMERICA’S KIDS cooking in those incubators like little chicks. Let them out in to the real world, the one they must live in. iF YOU THINK KEEPING THEM OUT OF INCLUSION ROOMS WILL IMPROVE THEIR POTENTIAL, YOU NEED TO RETHINK THAT. How could that be? YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE…

I read your posting, as well as that posted by jdavis. I am a contained spec. ed. teacher. My partner teacher and I have been looping for two years…. meaning we keep the kids in grades 5-6 for two years. We mainstream as appropriate. We have been considering a change based on the principles that you mentioned. We have have thought about “blending” the higher functioning LD students and co-teaching with one spec. ed. teacher on each team. We both fear losing the “progress potential” that we have been able to gain with our kids…… some have improved their reading comp. scores by 3-4 grade levels in just 2 years. Our rationale though, must be….. but we will then be able to touch more students (and teachers) with those strategies that allowed us to affect those scores to begin with. As far as organization, we can also show reg. ed. teachers how we have engaged in task analysis to help them internalize such strategies. (jdavis needs to know that all spec. ed. teachers do not allow students to ‘veg’, cook, or learn dependence……. GOOD teachers still follow their state standards, etc.)So, I believe your questions are good ones. We plan to maintain the needs of the lower LD students in a contained/mainstream setting next year and the higher LD students who truly have a shot at Regents (New York State) level work in high school will be blended with reg. ed. and we will coteach. Hope this helps.: I am a resource/content mastery teacher of 4th and 5th graders. I
: take the kids for pullout language arts and/or math, as determined
: by the ARD committee, as well as giving content mastery support in
: all subjects. (I do have a full-time aide)Anyway, this is my first
: year with this level kids. I taught primary age resource kids for
: 11 years before this. I’ve always been pretty dead-set against
: inclusion - seeing it as a way to push the kids through the
: system, without giving them the support they need to reach their
: potential. But I’m starting to rethink this, and would appreciate
: any input. Most of my children can read on at least a second-grade
: level, but have a lot of trouble with comprehension, organization,
: listening skills, etc. I’m starting to wonder if an inclusion
: setting, with me actually in the classroom with them part of the
: time, working directly with the classroom teachers, would be more
: beneficial to them. We have two resource teachers at our school,
: the other one working with the lower grades, so if there were a
: couple of mine who needed the direct instruction, perhaps they
: could go to her. Or I could tutor them directly before and after
: school. Input, please. Any thoughts - pro and con - are welcome!

Well, I haven’t checked this board for awhile. Glad I decided to tonight! I just have to say, I do not put my students in an incubator! I try to help them learn in the ways they’re able - both academics and real-world survival. I don’t think nurturing children, and teaching them to use the tools they have is a negative thing. Yes, life is hard…so we have to prepare our kids for it, not just let them sink or swim! My goal for all of my resource kids is to get them back into the mainstream, but not at the expense of their actually learning! They do not just disappear when they leave the classroom to come to resource - we do real work, and push them as far as they can go! With some of the things I’ve seen in the regular classrooms, it would be real easy to generalize and say that the classroom isn’t the place for ANY child, much less my LD kids! But I won’t make that generalization. Please don’t make it about special ed classrooms.

Where can I get information regarding propponents and opponents of inclusion???? I am taking a class and I need to write about this including my resources. HELP======Kathy

I was glad to find you asking the same question that I have been trying to anawer. I teach in a middle school where the kids have 2 placement choices- l.d. self contained or placement in regular ed where the teachers are unwilling for the most part to follow any specially designed instruction. Additionally, there are 4 l.d. teachers and 2 of them are against inclusion. BUT our new principal this year is promising support in the development of an inclusionary program of some sort. I have been researching and gathering info to initiate responsible inclusion. A key thing that I see happening or hope will happen is a reduction in the number of behavior problems that plague the l.d. student population in our school. I am eager for any info or documented experiences related to that aspect of the benefits of inclusion. thanks