13year old being polite

A couple of ideas: 1st: Teens who are clinically depressed are at high risk for suicide. Someone needs to reach out to a kid like this or he could be in danger of hurting himself. Why is the school psych. not involved? Is there a school counselor who could talk to him? I don’t know what state you are in, but there are often community resources available even for undocumented immigrants if you know where to ask. Besides being disrespectful, what signs of depression do you see? Why isn’t the administration backing you up re: gettting parents involved? If the situation is as serious as it sounds, a child neglect report to social services may be necessary to get him the help he needs.
Anyway, yes, it is reasonable to expect him to be respectful even if he doesn’t show respect at home. I’d sit down and talk with him more- so he knows you’re trying to bribe him, what does he think would help? You might be amazed at what he could come up with if he really feels like you want to help him. This is the kind of coversation that can’t happen while the rest of the class is there. One thing you might try is finding something at school that makes him want to be there— a mentor, a staff member who needs his help with something he’s good at, some kind of “job” that gives him a reason to come to school.
Behavioradvisor. com also has some great ideas for managing behavior!

I probably have more questions than helpful suggestions. What are the school/classroom consequences for leaving the room? Are those not in place for some reason? You did not indicate the possible difficulties he may be having in the subject matter: is it memorization, has he had previous exposure to the subject, or did he learn the material differently, and having trouble making the switch? How are the cultural differences as an immigrant affecting his learning? Language differences??
So, if he does have a nonverbal learning disorder, he may not understand the behavior expected of him, or does not recognize the impact his negative behaviors have on his learning and your nerves. From what you’ve put in your post, I’d go with something one-to-one: do you have any tutoring time available, in order to do assessment, give more feedback on behavior, and/or provide a support to him (home doesn’t seem to be providing that)? Peer tutoring for specific problem areas (sounds like he could use some structured peer interaction)? If he’s really clinically depressed, he’s calling out for a relationship. If it’s your classroom where he’s especially rude, sounds like he’s decided to call out to you!
Yes, I think kids can and should behave and be polite to others. I think a behavior plan, checklist, etc. can help, but I’m guessing the one-to-one relationship will be most helpful.

The other factors — no consequences at home, turmoil, etc — sound far more likely to be behind his behavior than a NVLD. I would definitely do a 1 on 1 and basically tell him that yea, you realize the bribery stuff isn’t going ot work with him because he sees beyond it — and that frankly, you expect better of him. Consistent sanctions that make it more of a nuisance to behave badly than not to are what have worked for me — keeping a kiddo after class long enough to have him explain to me why I’m doing that (keeping him after class) and why that’s a problem goes a long way. (if he “doesn’t know,” then I carefully explain and then ask him to explain it back in his own words)

You’re asking great questions. Is it reasonable to expect a child to be polite at school when he doesn’t have to be at home? Is it reasonable to expect a child who is clinically depressed (and not receiving any help for that) to be polite at school?

It’s not unreasonable, I suppose, so much as it’s unrealistic. And he’s 13 to boot. 13 year olds usually don’t jump well through the hoops of our little rewards.

This is a student that I would spend some one on one time with. I’d hold him out of some classes to get that time if I had to (with sincere apologies to the teachers) or I’d eat lunch with him - once a week for sure.

I’d be honest in my conversation with him. I’d tell him that he’s rude - but I’d say that without anger. Let’s remember this child doesn’t know rude from right. He needs instruction, not punishment.I must say though that whining and arguing and complaining aren’t rude in and of themself. They’re annoying but they’re not rude. It’s also true that not every school insists a 13 year old ask before leaving their seat or even leaving the room. But that habit is one I would speak to him about. Tell him that teaching school asks you, as a teacher, to insure the safety of 25(?) students in every class and to keep reasonable order for everyone’s safety. Explain that if we all got up and walked around whenever we felt like it, it would be chaos. Therefore, you ask him to ask you when he needs to get up and leave the room. Not because you’re trying to impact on his freedom as an individual but because you’re trying to keep some sense of order for safety.

Good reasons work better than rewards with any bright student.

Good luck.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. for the great responses. I really appreciate the feedback. I thought I’d let those of you that responded know what has happened with the kid. The psychologist at the school called the parents in for some family therapy. Although I don’t think he is very effective, he has a relationship with these people and got them talking ….hence life at home is better for the kid. Immediately, life at school got better. The behavior at school continues and we had one extreme escalation where I needed to chase the kid to the mall (45 minutes away) ,he was running home because he missed the bus. (He was being so rude that I wouldn’t let him get on the bus until he calmed down and the bus driver took off.) All the way he was screaming and swearing at me for following him but he obviously was scared as he never got too far out of my sight. I finally threaten to call the police as soon as we got close to a public phone and thank goodness he turned around. I live in a big city and it is not safe for a 13 year old to be roaming the streets alone. He lives more than a 2 hour walk from the mall so he was in a bad spot. Anyways, his parents came and picked us both up and the kid broke down and cried and cried. It was really good as I finally got to him on an emotional level. The parents were really grateful, which helped build that bond and trust…..the admin at the school thought I was amazing (ha ha) I just felt I didn’t have a choice in the matter… I needed to keep the kid safe, even if he wasn’t on campus. Everyone said he would be different after that… I knew he wouldn’t be. He wasn’t. But slowly… he is getting better. I saw another teacher really be super tough on him and he responded well to her(obviously looking for boundries with his behavior) So my latest strategies have been 1) not reward negative behavior, 2) really reward even small gains 3) phone the parents frequently for positives and negatives 4) not expect him to link his feelings to a verbal response. 5) I don’t call him out one on one as some of you suggested as he is highly reactive and the act of asking him to come talk to me sets him off royally even if I warn him ahead of time that he is not in any trouble. 6) be clear and strict with my expectations and give him outs to make choices to improve … candy is working well too.
thank you again for all the great responses… I really appreciated knowing that even strangers out in cyberspace are willing to help. Marie

Sue.. please see my response to Sara as it is for you too
Thank you very much for your time

Thank you.. please see my reply to Sara

Interesting that you say he is high risk for suicide as just today I saw some minor self harm stuff today. he was carving a word in his arm with a pin …Something I’ll watch for in the future. please see my response to Sara for an update on his behavior. Thank you for the great suggestions. I appreciate it very much.

If you can stand one more reply, although it sounds like you’re on the right track, here goes. One thing that works well for me is a contract with the child, where he helps define the behavioral goals and rewards as well as the consequences for not meeting the expectations of the contract. In the contract, you need to define exactly what behaviors you wish to see. Be specific, so the child knows exactly what is expected and try to be positive. You also need to find a behavior in which he can engage which is incompatible with the rude behavior you would like to eliminate. Good luck.
Fern

Thanks Fern for the suggestion. we have a behaviour contract in place. He gets evaluated 3 times a day. We have set up rewards etc… he is still not meeting the expectations. Some of the teachers that knew him from last year deal with him in a very strict way (not my style) they yell, use their finger wagging, and are intimidating. Unfortunately this style is some what effective with him. he stops arguing and listens. When I use my usual style which is more friendly and involves rewards and choices he escaltes. I appreciate the suggestions. What behavior would you consider to be totally incompatable with rude voice tone etc? I’m willing to try it. Today, when I asked him to get me something from the printer.. He responded with lots of “whys” when I explained that I am asking me to do me a favor because I know he is responsible. He says “What am I your slave?” He doesn’t say this as a joke. He is disrespectful and obviously looking for confrontation. I don’t want to give him attention for this behavior but the flip side is that I can’t have that in the class. I thought later about using humor with him but as I said that sort of thing seems to escate him. I’ve been doing this for 15 years and this one really gets me. More suggestions are welcome. How do I not give him attention for that kind of thing? I know he is looking for attention. When I try to engage him one on one he shuts down or is rude right off the bat. I can’t get past the wall… neither can my partner teacher or our aide? Thanks for letting me vent

Wow! I’m going to print out your original posting and this response and let our psychologist give it a shot. You seem to have your hands full. Honestly, this child’s primary disability is a behavior disorder rather than a learning disability. Frankly, he may do better in a specialized program. I’m curious how he behaves at home and what his role models are like.
Good luck!
Fern

Fern, to give you more background on the school. He is in a special program. There are 14 children in the class with 2 full time teachers. He monopolizes our time. Some of the strategies we have found to be somewhat successful are using proximity and verbal scripting. Every single request he makes he does in an impolite way. We either ignore his requests, cue him to be polite or give him the words he needs to use to meet his request. The other day he refused to go to the bathroom just because he wouldn’t say please. Yesterday his Mom spent most of the afternoon talking to my partner teacher about him. Mom is willing to come sit in the class as a last resort (quite embarassing for him) On Friday we discovered he is also a huge bully and has been targeting one other child with verbal and physical abuse. He knows that we have set up a contract with Mom and Dad and I call them every day with good or bad news about his day. The last piece of info you should know is that the family is rich…. totally, beyond belief rich. The parents have never had jobs and none of the children will ever have to work.