How long to complete reading reflex program?

Well, he is probably flipping the u and n, they are very similar visually, kind of like b, d, and p and q…which is another one that kids confuse sometimes… How much dictation and word sorting have you done with this young man? I do word sorting and dictation with the high schoolers I am working with and it really helps them process the sounds while reinforcing the symbol imagery when we talk about the mistakes they are making. Usually I can spot a pattern right off the bat and we work it through by word sorting and dictation until they can do it correctly Considering his auditory processing issues I think dictation or having him manipulate letter tiles will help him make the connections so he can remember and apply it consistently.

pattim,

I do some word sorting everyday even though we are now in the advanced code section. What I will do is say the word and have him sound out each sound as he writes it out. Is that what you mean by dictation? In the book it mentions that to introduce a new sound each week. Well, he has had slow progress with the “o-e” sound patterns after almost two weeks and I hate to go to the next sound because I don’t want him to get confused. I just want to make sure I am doing things right. If you could just explain what you mean about dictating to your students that would help. Also, you said you work with high schoolers, now do you start at the beginning of the book? I am just curious. Thanks….

I think the pretests determine where you start. They tell you at the bottom of the test page on which chapters the child needs to work. I’m just starting to use it, so I can’t answer your other question. However, I believe I have seen the McGuinesses repond that you should move on and still review the difficult sounds.

Janis

When you say o-e do you mean the signal e words or the long vowel sound patterns? If he is just glitching on the long o sound move onto other long vowel sounds and cycle them back through. Speech pathologists do that when we are teaching articulation or phonology to our students with phonological processes. Eventually he will generalize but you don’t want him to be bored. He has to see the emerging patterns… He will eventually realize that there are other ways to spell the long o sound, and how the “code” overlaps. Dictation is giving them words to write, like you are doing, sometimes in single words or sentences to help them develop complete sentences and auditory processing and attention skills…I have the read what they have written I also try to have them read every session to practice what they have learned.

I do a quick screening to see what they know. what I have found is that these High schoolers are memorizing words, they know most of the single consonant patterns and some digraphs but if you get into eigh, ough, and other complex things they start to freakl…and if they are ESL they confuse the vowel sounds and the spellings of the vowel patterns. I have to start with their phonology system and fit English into what they already know. For instance in Spanish their vowels are very phonetic and always say the same sound. An i in spanish will say eee, but in english an i says either /i/ as in hit or /i/ as in pie and they want to say the long /e/ sound as in tree….the a in spanish sounds like the short o in pot… and in english we say /a/ as in rate and /a/ as in hat…It takes a long time to sort it through but we are working on it…The key is to be consistent with your program and provide lots of reading to practice what they are learning..

Ah, okay that makes a lot of sense to me. Continue on…. Thanks for explaining how to do the dictating portion….Yes so I have doing it all along. I feel like I am on the right track. Yippeee!! Thanks to all, Rebecca

Folks who are basically nonreaders at an older age almost always need a lot more practice and repetition to master a skill. I really underestimated the value of this in my teaching at first — and even when I started doing more review I kept underestimating how much would keep doing more good. It’s simply n ot enough to just “get it” — it has to be automatic. I begin each lesson with quick drill — if it’s not quick, then I know it’s still at teh “practice” stage… so we practice it every day until it is quick. (“Quick” *is* a relative term, though — some of my struggling readers simply don’t spew the words quickly regardless, but I know they *have* instantly recognized the word.) I have drill decks broken down into really small skill levels — I’ll do a deck of just one syllable words with no blends if that’s what it takes.
Is this horribly tedious and boring? It is *if* you keep moving ahead just a little faster than the kid is mastering it, so that htey’re always having to think hard … on these same old words. HOwever, going just a little bit slower — and doing that same deck (shuffled :)) until it *is* just quick and fast… and much to my surprise the kids started enjoying it. I have heard similar stories from parents & other teachers as well.
There are some good fluency drills written up in a great article that I swiped (copied with permission :-)) from Phyllis Fischer who is an expert on this. It was in the IDA _Perspectives_ — called getting up to speed,” it’s at http://www.resourceroom.net/Sharestrats/IDAdrillarticle.asp (or just go to resourceroom.net, “reading and spelling,” and scroll down).
These non readers often have been pushed through a too-fast program a million times… it’s a lot like math in that sometimes the same program just *slowed down* and broken down smaller will mean that “less progress” is made through the year — but it STICKS.

I am reading, from the mouths of parents, much that suggests that “informed” parents all believe that we can, as a matter of course, get their LD children caught up. Perhaps their thinking is that if we do our jobs right and if they get a good IEP in place, we will have their child on grade level. What do you folks think the probablilty of this is? My experience is that students progress, yes, but many never ever catch up to nondisabled peers in word recognition, fluency and comprehension. If we have “x” hours in a school day and if teaching and drilling the dyslexic child requires many times more practice at a much slower rate of progress, I can’t figure out where this notion of “catching up” is coming from, unless the child was never truly dyslexic and just had perhaps a single processing deficit that slowed things a pinch.

I’m not quite sure what you have read in other parents’ posts, but from what I’ve seen of the school system, I have never felt that special ed would be able to fully “catch up” my child’s skills to be on grade level. How could they? They aren’t doing any one-on-one remediation. Half the time they aren’t even working on the issues my child has weaknesses in. The resource teacher is working with at least six kids, all with different problems. I worry about parents who seem to spend years battling with the school system to get their child in the Sped “door” thinking that their child’s problem will finally be fully addressed when they are “in.” And then once they are in, how much longer does it take them before they realize it’s not going to be enough? All the while precious time is slipping away.

I’d have to say that the resource teachers my child has worked with over the years have poured their hearts into it, but I think it’s the combination of the remediation at school and the private tutors he’s had for four years that have brought our son back up to grade level. Sadly, I think if he hadn’t worked with the tutors, it would never have happened. But even so, a resource period has provided a lot of benefits for our son. Just being with other kids that are like him made him feel like he’s not the only one that’s “different.” Also having the resource teacher interface with the general ed teachers on his behalf has been a tremendous plus.

I did expect the school system to help my child “catch up,” as in getting closer and closer. But realistically, I could never really see him getting fully “caught up” solely as a result of the work that goes on in his resource period. The school system doesn’t have the financial resources to do it right and I feel sorry for parents who don’t have the resources to get additional help.

YOu have a valid point — that learning disabilities arent things to be “cured.” HOwever, your use of the word “all” says you’re trying to make global statements so you can feel better about the job you’re doing or not doing.

For every parent who wants teachers to get their kiddo “caught up” there are others who simply don’t want their kiddo in a class wasting time on things that don’t help. Unfortunately, the stark reality is that this happens a *lot.* In other situations, the teachers are well trained and do the best they can with the resources they have, and *do* make a solid positive difference — though of course not the difference that could be made wiht intensive individual work. Most parents (granted, not all) understand this.

There are an awful lot of students who could have “caught up” given appropriate teaching even in a classroom setting.

Actually, for every parent who wants teachers to get their kiddo caught up, there are at least as many who blindly *trust* the teachers to be doing the best thing for their kid and they often find out too late that the trust was misplaced.

I guess it depends on what you mean by “catch up” AND “LD”. You seem to be equating, “LD” and dyslexic… they should not be. There are LD’s that have NOTHING to do with dyslexia. My son has NLD. He most certainly has a learning disability. But he reads (decoding, anyway) at a high school level in 5th grade.

If by “catching up” you mean, will he ever get to a point in school that he doesn’t need help? VERY unlikely. If you mean, is he capable of functioning on grade level with appropriate help and supports, most certainly. He has never been below grade level.

Karen

Catch up to what? I think that our goal has been to have our son get closer to his ability level(IQ), and with lots of work at home and private tutoring he has done very well. However, each grade has a RANGE of kids, reading and working at varying academic levels…so catch up to grade level is not too meaningful. His fluency has improved with practice, Wilson, and Great Leaps, and we hope will continue to improve. The key I think is for parents to understand their child’s ability level(maybe after a couple rounds of testing), and not measure success by the kid next door.

What a great post!! It’s not about the kids next door - it never has been. Each soul on this planet has its own uniqueness - to be worked with and developed. Our job (according to my religion) is to develop the talents we have been given to the absolute best of our potential.

As a teacher I met an awful lot of parents who wanted little Jennifer to be a lawyer - it appears God had better plans for the little one - Jennifer was a singer. Our job as parents is not to fit a child into a mold….NEVER!….it is to discover just who the little one is - and to NURTURE….to LOVE…. to INSPIRE….to ENCOURAGE….to BANDAGE… to HELP……to be a piece in the great mystery……when one achieves potential - I am sure there is dancing in Heaven.

I as a parent do not expect that teachers will help my child to get to grade level but will help them reach their fullest potential. It is my job as a parent to work with the teachers to help to reach this goal. I think what parents fear is that things will be like when I was a child. When I grew up LD kids and others with disabilities went to special schools or special classes and were taught life skills and little if anything else. These kids grew up to get dead end jobs or no jobs at all. I know that my youngest son will never be a Dr. or a lawyer but at the same time know that with the proper teaching and guidance he can be a productive member of society and this is the chance I want for him. He will never be like the kid next door but that is okay by me. I work with him to be the best that he can be. I expect the school to teach him to the best of his ability and nothing more. My experience especially recently has been very positive. My oldest son has “caught up to grade level” and my youngest son is making large gains. What I mean by grade level is that he is able to function in a regular classroom with little extra guidance. He might not be at the top of his class but he is right up there with them and I could not ask for anything more.