Son entering 3rd Grade with reading problems

Steph wrote:
>
> I’m new here, and am not sure if this is the right place to
> be. I was wondering if there were any others out there with
> a similar problem. My son will be starting 3rd grade next
> week. I am very concerned about his reading and
> comprehension. At times I think he may have a LD, but then
> other times, I think I’m just trying to find an excuse for him.

Yes, you can to a great forum to garner ideas and suggestions for other parents in your situation. And no, I don’t think you’re trying to make an excuse for him at all. From your description, it certainly sounds as if he has dyslexia. I’m sure he’s not lazy and it’s clear he’s not retarded, either.

> He is reading below his grade level, and trying to get him to
> read is like pulling teeth. When he reads, it seems like he
> reads the words, not the story. He has no idea what he has
> just read when he gets done. He also has trouble with
> reading the words. He will look at a word and say a totally
> different word, for example, the other day he said the word
> “smiles” for the word “sleeps”. He often leaves off the
> endings of words (‘ed’, ‘ing’, ‘est’, ‘es’…..). And he
> still is having trouble with ‘b’ and ‘d’, and switches
> letters around, ‘saw’ for ‘was’.

The reversals and transpositions I recognize, knowing what I do of dyslexia. As for his reading “smiles” for “sleeps,” someone else will have to explain that. A lot of kids with reading problems tend to pass over the endings of words such as you described.

BTW, how are his writing and spelling skills? Does he have difficulty with them, as well? What about written math?

> If he has to read a question and answer it, he can’t do it.
> Yet, if I read the same question to him, he knows the answer
> right away. He does not understand what he is reading.

Another earmark of LD. His general ability to learn is much higher than his reading skills. Can he give his answers orally with no difficulty?

> I’m afraid 3rd grade is going to be too hard for him and he
> will be very discouraged. He is a smart child, but has a
> very hard time with the reading and comprehending. He loves
> to work with his hands and take things apart and fix things.

I’m sure he is smart. In what ways does he display his intelligence, in addition to be able to learn and remember what he hears? I’m curious.

> I have thought about having him tested for Dyslexia, but
> haven’t yet, because, as I stated earlier, sometimes I feel
> like I’m just trying to find an excuse for his ‘behavior’.
> I’m at a loss, and not sure what I should do. Any
> suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Has someone—a teacher, perhaps—suggested that you’re trying to make an excuse for a “lazy” son who “won’t apply himself” and “refuses to try”? Or is this something you yourself have feared?

As I stated above, I don’t think you’re making excuses at all, and I know the others who frequent this board will agree. It definitely sounds as if he has a reading disability, probably dyslexia. However, to confirm your suspicion, he needs to be tested. You can ask the school to have that done, and then to work with you to put together an I.E.P. (individualized education plan). Preferably, he should receive intensive, daily, one-on-one remediation that’s structured, sequential, phonics-based, multisensory type.

Good luck with getting him the help he needs! You’ve come to the right place for moral support and ideas, believe me.

Yours truly,
Kathy G.

Sounds like what my son went through at that age and yes he has learning disabilities. Please don’t listen to those who say he may be lazy and you are trying to make excuses, because the earlier you get him tested and find out what is truly going on, the sooner you can get him the help he needs. My son is not dyslexic, but had/has the same problems your son has. Talk to your sons teacher and the principal and ask that your son be tested ASAP.

What do I ask to have him tested for? Is this something schools normally test for or do I need to take him to a specialist?

Answers to your questions/comments:
>BTW, how are his writing and spelling skills? Does he have difficulty with
>them, as well? What about written math?

He has trouble writing out answers to questions and writing sentnces to describe something. His spelling is okay when he has his tests, but my husband and I practice his weekly words with him. When he is just writing, he misspells words frequently. He does good with numeric math problems, but when it comes to a story problem, he never understands them….

>Another earmark of LD. His general ability to learn is much higher than his
>reading skills. Can he give his answers orally with no difficulty?

He sometimes has difficulty explaining things, but if I read a story to him, and then ask him questions, he can usually answer those questions.

>I’m sure he is smart. In what ways does he display his intelligence, in addition
>to be able to learn and remember what he hears? I’m curious.

He remembers things that happened a long time ago - these things seem tirvial to me, but he remembers them. Also, if you show him how to do something, the remembers how to do it. He loves working with his hands - we live on a farm, and he loves working with his dad on the farm….

>Has someone—a teacher, perhaps—suggested that you’re trying to make an
>excuse for a “lazy” son who “won’t apply himself” and “refuses to try”? Or is
>this something you yourself have feared?

No teachers have suggested that he is lazy, and I don’t really think he is lazy. I guess when I make a comment like this, I’m maybe fearful that there may be something wrong with him, or his problems were caused by me as a mother, not doing what I should have when he was younger (like reading to him as much as I should have)….

How do I go about having him tested? Is testing for dyslexia something schools do, or do I have to take him to a specialist?

With the letter reversals you may want a Visual Processing evaluation done by anOccupational Therapist, definitely a WISC or other IQ test done that can compare Verbal IQ to Performance IQ. This is testing that can be done by the school. Request it in writing to your Child Study Team stating specificaly what you stated in your original post. If he has handwriting problems ask for an evaluation (ETCH). Has he received any corrective reading in school?? The automatic assumption may be dyslexia but these tests can rule out other problems. Good Luck.

Your school should do a full psychoeducational evaluation, it should test for visual processing problems(vads), auditory processing problems(taps), and educational achievement test(could be the kaufman or woodcock-johnson)and an iq test (could be the WISC),my district also had a school social worker come out to ask about his past medical history, a family history etc. ,the school district psychologist tests for emotional difficulties, everyone later meets and talks about what the test results were.You may also need to have a physical done as well from your doc,also I would suggest a hearing test and eye exam to rule other stuff out,go regular docs, if all is fine you could possibly try the developmental hearing and eye docs, those would be docs you have to pay yourself(or insurance). There are folks on this board who have experience with those being their childs’ problems. You go from there to establish if services are needed and if yes then an iep meeting. This is of course the ideal,(actually it’s how it went for me in VA). By all means do not go by yourself to these meetings, take notes, ask lots of questions and make sure that you are a participating member of the team, because by law you are. In VA this started with a teacher conference, I asked for testing, there was a form to fill out from the office, and we went from there. Believe me it can be a real rollercoaster because of the time frames and emotions while waiting for stuff to happen. It is your right to have him tested and don’t let them try to tell you he is just a late bloomer cause by 3rd grade he should have bloomed, by 4th the bloom should have withered and fallen off the stem.(at least that’s what I said at our second meeeting in 4th grade) If you aren’t satisfied with the schools eval. you can ask for an independent edu eval(iee) at the schools expense. There is more involved with this that I don’t have experience with but we would all hope it wouldn’t come to that. If it does, there are more knowledgeable people on this board that can give some advice on that subject. I hope I was able to help, I know there are others who can add to what I have said. Best wishes.

I agree with what the other posters have said. The things you describe look like a reading-related l.d., and your son ought to be tested.

Third grade is a sort of hurdle, because at that point, children have to start to use reading as a tool. That is, prior to third grade, most of their lessons in other subjects have been taught to them by the teacher. Beginning in third grade, they start having to learn subject matter through reading. If a child is already struggling with the mechanics of reading, it is extremely hard for him to have energy left for comprehension. I don’t know if this is actually what happens, but it looks like this. Reading is made up of a chain of steps the brain makes. If one or more steps in the chain is hard or is missed, as is the case with a reading l.d., all the steps later in the chain are made too hard or impossible.

It’s good your finding out now, if he has an l.d. problem. The earlier he receives one-on-one help, the better chance he has to become a better reader.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out. Carol

I think you should have him tested for a wide range of receptive and processing problems, including short-term memory, visual processing, and phonemic awareness. The last thing is his awareness of the sounds in words and, therefore, his ability to hear the different parts and link what he hears to what is seen on a page. It’s an important component in the chain of reading.

It costs a fair amount to have a complete battery of tests. Also, not all test givers are good at it. Some can tell you vastly more about your child at the end of testing than others can. You should ask around, find who other parents rave about, maybe look for a place which specializes in educational testing. The last one — it doesn’t guaranty that they will do a great job. You should ask parents about the place and the person before you commit to spending the money.

Carol

Just from the description of your son’s reading that you offer, I would gently suggest that having him tested is a good idea and that in the greatest of liklihood, you are not making excuses for him. The things he is doing are the classic signs of a reading issue.

Good luck

Sarah, 1st of all, it is the school district’s responsibility to evaluate/test your child, at NO cost to you. I would ask for a Psycoeducational evaluation- which will include testing in a number of areas, reading, writing, math, comprehension, etc. Does your son appear to have any difficulties following verbal directions or keeping up with the teacher as she talks? If so, I would also ask for testing in the area of speech and language and auditory processing. You should be an active member in the assessment process- they should interview you and ask how he does at home and in the community in different situations. When the testing is completed, they will meet with you to go over the results- I would suggest that you read the copy of the parental rights before you go into that meeting and make sure that you understand your rights. If it is determined that your son does qualify for special education services, they will tell you what classification he qualifies under- sounds like it will probably be Learning disabilities, then they will need to write an IEP- Individual Education Program. Here is where they will identify his needs and identify strategies to meet those needs. You should be an active participant of the IEP team. This site is a wonderful source of information on the IEP process.

I would request (in writing) a complete speech and language evaluation from the school. They are legally required to do this within 30 working days from the time you make a written request. Ask for tests of decoding, comprehension, and phonological awareness. This will give you a lot of information.

I would also take him to a developmental optometrist. That evaluation includes about 20 tests of visual function not included in a regular eye exam. You want to either rule out or identify vision problems as contributing to his reading problems.

Many children have developmental vision delays and/or delays in development of phonological processing. These problems have nothing to do with parenting. They also are independent of a child’s efforts to learn. Children with these problems are often actually working harder than other children.

We found that the Phono-Graphix method really helps to develop phonological awareness and decoding skills. The method is easy to do at home. I would recommend that you buy the book “Reading Reflex” for $16. This is what I used with my 8yo daughter when she was still reading at a preschool level. It was quite amazing how quickly this method worked.

Once my daughter could read at a 2nd grade level, it became clear there was something else wrong, because her reading fluency was extremely poor. I took her to a developmental optometrist (we still use an opthalmologist for eyeglasses) and found she had severe developmental vision delays, which made it difficult for her to track and focus across a line of text. She did vision therapy, and then we did PACE to further develop her visual processing skills. To learn more about vision, check out http://www.vision3d.com.

Incidentally, my daughter also had/has the elephantine memory for details. I suspect she developed auditory skills to a high degree early in life to compensate for her visual deficits.

If you can do only one thing, my recommendation is to buy “Reading Reflex”. It was probably the best single investment I have ever made in a book.

Mary

Youve described my 4th grade son to a T-third grade last year was a killer year for us.

He has been tested by the school and labeled learning disabled. They did a Woodcock Johson, Weschler and Visual Motor Integration. None of the processing, dyslexia and more specific tests mentionned here on the board were done.

Then I went on a quest privately to find out more. The developmental optometrist found minor delays which she recommended therapy for(100/hr)but admitted they were so minor she wouldnt think of treating them in a kid who was doing okay in school. I decided to move on.. We did purchase glasses that have a bifocal type lens in the bottom that were supposed to make reading less stressful. They didnt appear to help and he hated wearing them-we did give them a solid 5 months of trial though.

This summer we went to a private psychologist who feels he has ADD-inattentive only. He is not hyper or impulsive. He is currently on Adderall and I an anxious to see if there is a difference. I gather medication for this type of ADD is sometimes effective, sometimes not.

I don’t think ADD is the whole issue-neither does the psychologist-I suspect dyslexia or auditory processing is in there too. But, quite frankly, Ive laid out so much money already, Ive decided to pressure the schools to do any further testing. They are quite satisfied with the LD designation and acting like there are no other tests to be given. I feel there is so much more they and I could be doing if we understood the issues better

All of the things youve said are true of my boy(good at math except word problems) and I was just curious. How is his handwriting? MY sons is awful and his IEP states he may print instead of use cursive. Also, does he read slow or fast? So much of the info on dyslexia implies a slow struggling pace. My son reads VERY quickly but makes many errors(like the ones youve described) and has poor comprehension. Like yours, he does better if im talking with him about the story.

It seems my kid fits a few symptoms of so many things and not all symptoms of anything-frustrating.

Books I found useful “Rightbrained Children in a Leftbrained World” and “the Gift of Dyslexia”

You definitely need to move on getting him tested-as you can tell from the narrative ive written, its not a speedy process and theres no good reason to wait.

Good luck and keep me posted on any info you find. I am awed at the similarities between our sons.

My son’s handwriting is very poor. It is very hard to read the work he brings home. Also, he reads very slowly. He has to concentrate on the words so hard while he is reading. Simple little words will throw him off. He does lose his place on the page frequently, and skips lines.

I did have him tested for ADD last year, and was told that he did not meet the criteria for it. I had him rated high, but his teacher did not. It seems to me that he cannot sit still for very long and his attention span can be short. Sometimes it just seems like he is staring off into space, even when he is talking to you. His teacher agreed, but rated him lower in these things because he is not diruptive in class. He was always polite to her and told her the truth (she often asked him if he read the story before answering the questions, and he always told her no!). So as long as he wasn’t diruptive, I guess he didn’t quailify for being diagnosed with ADD!

It is getting to the point where this is affecting his self esteeem, and the other kids are starting to tease him a little - kids can be so cruel!

Also, on the glasses issue…. I did have his eyes tested in 1st grade. Turns out he needed glasses for his close up work. He also had a lazy eye that went undetected until then. He is currently wearing glasses with bifocals.

Steph wrote:
>

> I did have him tested for ADD last year, and was told that he
> did not meet the criteria for it. I had him rated high, but
> his teacher did not. It seems to me that he cannot sit still
> for very long and his attention span can be short. Sometimes
> it just seems like he is staring off into space, even when he
> is talking to you. His teacher agreed, but rated him lower
> in these things because he is not diruptive in class. He was
> always polite to her and told her the truth (she often asked
> him if he read the story before answering the questions, and
> he always told her no!). So as long as he wasn’t diruptive,
> I guess he didn’t quailify for being diagnosed with ADD!
>
Please get another opinion on the ADHD. ADHD Inattentive is particularly tricky to diagnose. As you know since you filled out the ratings scales, there are something like 30+ criteria under the three different sub-types - no two ADHD people “look” exactly the same. My daughter is definitely ADHD but originally the teacher’s scales told the same story ours did, she gave her gentler grades, not enough to be diagnosed ADHD. The teacher even said things like “oh no, if they’re looking for ADHD, she’s definitely not - only boys get that” before she filled out the scales. She was never a problem in class and was always willing to please - she had what I call “good little girl” syndrome and there were times I wished she would act out her frustration and exhibit some of her hyperactive ADHD behavior in school (she saved those for her parents, sister and babysitter). On the other hand, parent’s scales, babysitter’s scales and her reading tutor comments, TOVA tests, all showed ADHD. Given that ADHD is often misunderstood and sometimes controversial, we went to a pediatric neurologist at a leading hopsital to look into the ADHD. This neurologist spent about 4 hours with her/us before making the diagnosis. Prior to that we had complete neuropsychological testing done on her (similar reading issues as your son) privately which was 10 hours of testing with a lengthy report - this report also suggested ADHD, but at that point we, her parents didn’t understand ADHD (and were resistant to the idea too). Months later, the neuropsych explained it to me as - if she had just the ADHD or just the reading problems - she’s probably be able to get through school struggling but porbably OK - but having both was a double whammy to her.

Be objective and open, learn everything you can, read, read read, be relentless in getting to the bottom of your son’s issues or differences, but above all, trust your instincts as a mother - you know your child best. If something is not right and he is starting to or is suffering, that’s what you need to pay attention to (bad pun not intended). The earlier these kids issues are correctly diagnosed and addressed, the better the outlook for them.

Good luck.

Welcome to our world — you’re in the right place.

In a different culture your kiddo would be highly sought after and a leader among his peers because of his natural affinity for *doing* and building.

Check out the “First PErson” archives (click on the box at the top of the page… then scroll down to get the archives.) You’ll find some good company there — and if you get a chance to look at Thomas West’s book _In the Mind’s EYe_ (try the library) I think you’ll find lots of similarities. He explores the idea that kids like yours (and people like him), if they can survive school, actually have the kinds of abilities that are very well suited to the real world and the sweeping changes technology has made on it. (One example — computer software that’s produced so fast *nobody* can make sense of the manuals — so people who learn by futzing around have a definite advantage!)

ADD is *very* tricky to diagnose.

CAPD (auditory processing problems) and even reading problems can look just like it — if something requires incredible effort and concentration, it’s hard to keep up with it for long. It’s easier for others so they can keep going. One critical question is whether he can attend to other things besides reading… though like everything else there’s not a simple answer there because some very ADD kids can “hyperfocus” on a passion and tune out absolutely everything else. (Channeling this can be a great asset.)

Giftedness can also look like ADHD. There’s a good article about that in LD IN Depth under “gifted/LD” with a checklist.

Your son sounds just like mine. My son has dyslexia.

Becareful, school personell kept telling me that my son was ADD. He isn’t. He gets distracted because the work he is doing is difficult for him. He puts out 120% effort when others only put out 80-100% effort. Putting out that kind of effort is hard work and can’t be kept up for long so he tries to avoid the work. He also has an auditory processing problem.

You have gotten some good advice. Check out the International Dyslexia Assoc. web site or call your local branch. They will mail you a bunch of information and they can also do a screening for your son for a small amount of money. Find out what tests are best to test for dyslexia.

If you get him tested through the school district, make sure you have a FULL battery of tests. Dyslexia is language based so get a speech and language evaluation also. Many times sd will only give the same old tests they give to everyone and your child’s problem will be missed because he didn’t get the right test. Call some professionals in the private sector and see what tests they would recommend. My son was tested by a Pediatric Neuropsychologist after the sd didn’t identify his problem (very long story). The International Dyslexia Assoc has a list of professionals the specialize in the area of dyslexia that you can contact. I’m sure any of them would be happy to talk to you even if you don’t use them.

Good luck! You have a lot of work to do to find out about learning disabilities. You should also check out your rights on sites like Reed Martin & Wrightslaw. You will need to get educated. Remember most sd don’t want to find out if you child has a problem because they don’t want to pay for the help. Many don’t know what kind of help a child needs even if they do identify something. You will need to find this out and get what your child needs. You son is already in 3rd grade. Don’t let the sd put you off. The older the child gets, the longer it will take to remediate.

Doesn’t it seem as though you are dealing with a teacher who is ignorant of l.d. and its symptoms? It seems as though, from what you’ve said, that more complete testing of him should be done. There is a kind of disorder which is sort of like this: the child can only understand a few words at a time. When a teacher (or anyone) goes on at greater length, they lose him, and his attention starts to drift. It’s a specific disorder and there are specific remediation procedures to help it.

I think you need to push to get the school to thoroughly test him.

P.S. He sounds like a nice person.

Carol

Steph, your son sounds so much like mine, and all that we went through, except that I did not have to fight to have the school district do what they knew they should do-test my child- only because they knew I knew the LAWS. It really sounds like part of your son’s problem is auditory processing- does he sometimes just stare right through you when you ask him a question? Does he sometimes take what seems like forever to answer a question? My son reads at about the 4th grade level and he is in 6th, but his comprehension is about the 3rd grade level. He has such a hard time figuring out the words that he loses all the meaning, because he is not reading to learn about the story, he is reading to read the words, thus misses all the content. Ask your son’s school for testing tomorrow, the sooner the better.