LD w/ low iq

Where is this “discrepancy policy” set? Is it set in stone (or on paper as a policy), or do these folks simply need to be educated about relatively new information about LDs? The “classic” image of teh “LD” kid is the very bright kid with a specific problem (and in our dreams, a problem easy to work around so we can unleash his general brilliance).

However, more recent research by Reid Lyon, et al. has indicated that the predictors of things like trouible with reading are essentially unrelated to IQ. Whatever the IQ, a kiddo can have a specific problem with phonemic awareness or auditory processing. SOmething tells me it’s basically the same way with visual processing.

I had *lots* of kids with that kind of profile in my middle school LD classes in public school. (There’s also a whole subgroup of people who think “LD” is basically the same thing as a slow learner, so they’d have *no* trouble saying your kiddo had LDs). What did I do? Lots of structure, lots of concrete work, and lots of specific work on the specific issues they had.

One thing I was very careful to do was to make sure I wasn’t setting up my kids to have to choose between finishing the assignment and learning from it. Quantity is such a big issue! It’s better to *learn* 5 things than be exposed to 20 and forget them. I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts he’s overwhelmed and the main thing he’s learning is that school is a total frustration. Even if I couldn’t change the grades, i’d change that — if he’s going to get D’s and F’s… don’t do as much of the homework.

WHen I taught in Catholic school there was an option for a “check system.” One of my students was on it — her work was not graded the same as the other kids’ were, and I cut ‘way back on her quantity. She got C’s on her report card as agreed ahead of time and she worked hard and she did learn a lot that year and my primary change was in quantity, not quality, and working on lower level grammar skills (this was 6th grade).

Let me assure you, low IQ is NOT a sign that someone cannot have learning disabilities. I have been going through this exact same fight with my sons school. My son has a communication disorder, which makes standard IQ tests unreliable. You need to look at the individual subtests that make up the whole test. My sons non verbal scores were all average to above average, however the verbal scores brought everything else down. Be persistant to get the services your little guy needs, and don’t let them bully you. Research research research.

Wow - what you said was what I thought and tried to do at our catholic school. I have 5 children there currently and hoped some special policy would be applied to help him - and for numerous reasons, none have. The teacher keeps going thru the motions treating him as a “normal” child, however, his self-esteem is almost at rock bottom, mostly from the idea “if I did allthat homework, why am i still failing everything.” Subsequently, our issue is, with an IQ off 83 how could a child possibly have a performance score of 53 or less…actually his testing had most of his performance commensurate with his ability - however, on several occasions in the report, the psychologist comment….”and in this test, with many, many prompts” our son was able to complete the task.. So we ask ourselves - “does the psychologist/teacher sit next to him all day to give these many, many prompts.” When i contacted the public school psychologist they started the process immediately. We are STILL waiting for the school to submit their reports. But, my concern is, how do i approach the situation if the results still show “performance commensurate with ability.” My feeling is “he does not have the ability” but I have learned an IQ of 83 is low average..not LOW. And I must say, after reading your post Brenda…I sure wish you taught at our school. And finally, don’t get me wrong…we have a great small catholic elementary school - they are just not prepared/equipped or able to provide what our son needs - I just don’t know exactly what he needs or where he can get it?

Sorry..I probably forgot an important thing - his teachers all agree and tell us,he is not a behavior problem at all. As a matter of fact, he tries and tries, however, recently has progressed to “lying.” Such as if he didn’t complete something and the teacher asks where is it, he replies - “its at home.” And of course the opposite at home, he tells us “its at school.”

How about contacting a child advocate to help you? These people are experienced with the ins ands outs of the system and their job is to get the right situation for a child for whom they’re advocating.

public schools are able to offer many more services than parochial schools, so LD kids are often better off there. However, you still have the problem that if the testing discrepancy between IQ and performance is too small, he may not qualify for services.

One thing to keep in mind is that the margin of error in IQ testing is larger than normally thought and, when a child has LD’s, the error is *always* on the side of underestimating IQ. While tests and testers try to keep IQ testing “pure”, this is simply not totally possible right now. Another thing to keep in mind is that IQ probably really represents a *range* rather than a fixed score. No one knows exactly what this range is, but a good bet is probably 30 points. What this means is that a child who receives minimal stimulation and nurting from his environment might score 85, while another child with the very same native potential who receives optimal stimulation from his environment might score 115. The range could even be larger than that.

Is there any chance you could homeschool this child, even for just a year? LD’s often are symptoms of underlying developmental problems and, when they are, reducing the underlying problems by means of appropriate therapy can greatly improve academic abililites. Unfortunately, schools are not equipped to (1) diagnose these underlying problems, or (2) treat these underlying problems. Typically all they can do is diagnose the resulting education problems and provide academic remediation. Fortunately, medical insurance usually covers much of the appropriate testing (although you have to know enough to ask for it), and many of the newer therapies on the market directly address these types of problems (although these you usually have to pay for and/or do yourself).

A child such as you describe typically does much better academically with one-on-one instruction at home, even when underlying problems remain unaddressed. One-on-one allows for selection of appropriate curriculum materials (which alone can make a huge difference for a child) and immediate feedback and help. Schools simply cannot provide this level of individualized attention.

Mary

Are you willing to move him to the another school? If it is evident to all that there is a learning problem why is your school looking for excuses not to provide help? What is the purpose in giving him all Fs but no help?

My son (now 19) consistently (age 6 through age 18) tested in the low 80s IQ range, but there was not a 30 pt descrepancy in his performance. However, in public school he easily qualified for an IEP because the school documented a specific language based disability and provided services on that basis. They found a reason to give him help, because he so obviously struggled to learn.

A healthy child, in a loving home, with English as his first language, attending a reasonably good school simply would not test in the low 80s IQ if there wasn’t some type of learning disability. There are lots of social and health factors that can drag a score down, but absent those, the score screams LD all by itself. Even with a lot of help and accommodations, it was a long struggle through high school for us. Best wishes to you.

Mary wrote:

> A healthy child, in a loving home, with English as his first
> language, attending a reasonably good school simply would not
> test in the low 80s IQ if there wasn’t some type of learning
> disability. There are lots of social and health factors that
> can drag a score down, but absent those, the score screams LD
> all by itself. Even with a lot of help and accommodations,
> it was a long struggle through high school for us. Best
> wishes to you.

Don’t believe the old stereotype that children with mental retardation come from impoverished, culturally illiterate, minority homes. That’s just not true. A mentally retarded child can be born to a loving, nurturing, middle-class, white Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP) home as well as to any other.

Having said that, I agree that processing deficits, if severe and numerous enough, can drag a person’s I.Q. down, making him appear to have less intellectual potential than he truly does. That may well be the case with this child. If it is, intensive remediation of his processing deficits, combined with equally intensive academic remediation, will bring them up, and the parents and teachers will be able to get a better picture of what his true potential is.

Yours truly,
Kathy G.

We lived through a similar IQ test nightmare i.e.Weschler IQ scoring. The problem was that we did not know that the TONI test is the more appropriate IQ testing method for kids with language processing issues. The TONI results were 35 points better…showing an above average IQ score and helping to frame the Weschler IQ data has inaccurate.

After lots of remediation for auditiory processing etc. we now can even score an average Weschler but I still don’t think it shows the real IQ or potential.

TONI-3 Test Of Non Verbal Intelligence
& Cognitive Ability (ProEd - 800 897-3202)
largely non verbal and motor skills free
meets psychometric standards for norms etc.