Speech and Language Eval scores

We need to know what tests were done and the actual subtest scores to give you a better indication of her strengths and weaknesses.

My hunch is that she may be having problems with inattentive behaviors and lack of focus as well. Kids that are ADD-Inattentive are also labeled as lazy because they don’t appear to pay attention and want to engage in activities. Kids with ADD-Inattentive who have been diagnosed with CAPD, have low receptive/expressive language scores because they get in their own little world when things get overwhelming and just shut down.

If she does enough of this she misses out on learning and picking up the language of her peers which explains the lower language scores. She might be able to focus on what she is interested in but if she isn’t interested she may tune out.

What was her processing speed on the one IQ test that was done?

She never actually got an IQ tests, she had a speech/lang eval. and the woodcock johnson.

On the speech/lang: semantic relationships was a 4, listening to paragraphs was a 6, and word associations was a 4. Her receptive language score was 78 and expressive language was 92, her total language score was 84.

On the woodcock johnson Long term ret. was 82 and fluid reasoning was 87 everything else was in the low 90. However on scattered test she had low scores, visual auditory learning 83 and retrieval fluency 86.

Also is the woodcock johnson an age based test? What I mean is does a 12 year old get the same test as a 17 year old?? She, my sister, said alot of the test seemed to be designed so she would do well, like when she had to write sentences they were very easy, her example was “The cat is purple” of ” The sun comes out during the day and the moon comes out during the night”

I am confused!!
Dawn

On the language test, which test was given? Was it the CELF or the TOLD? She is doing better expressively which in layman’s terms means she probably talks a lot more than she listens, Does that sound like your sister? From these scores it looks like she has trouble with understanding words and their meanings when someone says something to her, that is receptive language. But when she is expressive or talking she scores higher. My hunch is that your sister may be ADD-inattentive and I would suggest that you have your parents take her to the pediatrician and see what he/she thinks. Some kids that are ADD have this kind of profile. They will talk your ear off but when you are talking they tune out and can appear to others to be lazy and not trying.

On the Woodcock Johnson, the same test is given to a 12 year old as a 17 year old. however, considerations are made when scores are calculated. But scores in the 80’s aren’t too bad. When you are talking with your sister does she act like she doesn’t hear you? Does she daydream, would rather do fun things than do what she has to do, like homework or read?

The Woodcock Johnson Cognitive portion is an IQ test- they are not trying to put anything over on you there. It is age normed and the cognitive score is just as valid as any other IQ test.

Her scores are pretty consistant- in the average/low average range. Patti is right about the language scores- but the cognitive stuff isn’t showing a processing deficit that looks like LD- it showing a young lady who has a hard time acquiring and applying new learning and generally needs the world to slow down a bit. How were her achievement scores?

Robin

i don’t notice that she daydreams when I talk to her. We spend a great deal of time together and I notice she has trouble getting out what she wants to say, her mouth always stumbles, and certain times of the day are better than other.

She has terrible difficulty reading, doesn’t comprehend what she reads and doesn’t not most of the words. She has trouble taking notes and following lengthy directions.

She had the CLEF done for speech and language and when compared with my 13 year old brothers they were identical.

She seems to have all the same difficulties that he has. My brother was always classified as having add but after having the CAPD testing it was determined that all along he had that instead. So I am at a loss!!

Thanks for your help!
Dawn

Her acheivment scores were all normal, in the mid to low 90’s.

The speech and language pathologist gave as a fairly extensive list of accomodations that they want her teacher to do. The problem is getting the school to do them when they think that she is just lazy and needs to work harder. Now they say there is no learning disability and they are going to want to do even less!!

DAwn

When you say stumble do you mean “stuttering?” I have done some recent work with kids who were first diagnosed with CAPD and they had ADD instead. They overlap so much that it is extremely difficult to tease them apart but the behaviors is what is concerning me, the lack of trying that is observed at school and the teachers thinking that she is lazy. If she was truly CAPD she would have lower expressive scores than she does, as a kid who has CAPD typically has lower language scores receptively and expressively because they are not getting the language input. So she scored better than your brother on the CELF and she is 2 years younger? What about your brother and his issues?

Your sister has good expressive output so that doesn’t fit the puzzle to me…please look into the attention piece to make sure that my hunch is wrong.

She doesn’t stutter, it is more like when she goes to say something like “Pass the salt” something weird comes out like “Pamoniadoolaota”

As far as the laziness and the effort issues, it is the spec. ed coordinator and the special ed teacher who tested her who are calling her lazy. Which is funny (not really) considering the coordinator has spent about 1 hr with her and the testing teacher only just met her to test her. She works very hard and seems to get nowhere. She constantly checks in with her teachers and makes sure she is caught up on assignments and then she ends up failing the class anyway. I know something is going on I just don’t know what.

She scored almost identical to my brother on the clef. There receptive, expressive, and total language scores are exactly the same.

This is pretty much the same exact thing that happened with my brother, all along the school kept saying he had ADD. Then we met the advocate and she said she thought CAPD and sure enough that is what it was.

I will look into the ADD, at this point I need to go down every avenue possible to get her help.

DAwn

Dawn,
Don’t let the school bully you !! Under Federal Law if there is the slightess diffrence between IQ and acheivement your sister would qualify for accommodations under the 504K program. I fought for almost a year to have my daughter tested for a LD problem. The school was quite resistant until I did my research and found out about the 504K program. Once I mentioned that that they became very accommadating. Good luck !!

This is only true if you can document a handicapping condition that does not require special education services. Section 504 is an anti-discrimination law- not part of IDEA and the rules are a bit different.
Robin

I know it is hard to understand but based on the scores she achieved there is not evidence of a learning disability. That does not mean there aren’t problems- just that she isn’t LD. She does have some fairly significant language issues that will require accommodation- but I this would come under Section 504- not Special Ed. If she is entitled to accommodations then she should receive them- and there is nothing in the law that says that remediation and support services cannot be on that list. The school is required to comply with the law. Denying accommodations is a violation of her civil rights. I think you may need an advocate to walk through this with you to make sure you understand her rights and to help you form your responses to the school. This board is great but there is nothing like hands on help.

Robin

Since you think it is CAPD, what I would suggest is going to http://pages.cthome.net/cbristol/ to find qualified CAPD audiologists in your area. If you have a choice, try one associated with a university medical center. Call the audiologist’s office, explain the situation, and ask if your health insurance would cover a CAPD evaluation. A lot of times it will, and the audiologist’s office can tell you what you need in order to ensure coverage (for example, a referral from your GP). When my neighbor did this, the CAPD audiologist then referred her son for a neurological evaluation also. All of it was covered by her medical insurance, and she was able to take the evaluations to the school to get appropriate accommodations (except the school could do so little she decided to homeschool instead, and the boy has gone from being half-a-year behind to being a little ahead of grade level — in 4 months!).

Mary